[Signing] Backlund re-signs. 6 years, AAV $5.35M

[blender]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

The Flames management get stuck with a comparable. Statsny at 32 is probably better than Backlund at 29 for the next 2 years.

If some GM goes Brad Richard's crazy and gives Statsny a 6x6 then Backlund might be a deal.... one that will keep the Flames at the mediocre level the fan base seems to tolerate.

Where do you come up with this? Stastny is not better than Backlund right now. Maybe equal. Maybe.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by blender

Where do you come up with this? Stastny is not better than Backlund right now. Maybe equal. Maybe.

And to add, both will likely be equal in about 3 years, as in extremely overpaid.

[nemanja2306]

MOD EDIT: Removed post that contained insults.

[Poe969]

Well in fairness, Backlund hasn't lead his team in points or put a team on his back for multiple seasons. Backlund has had one really good season and other than that has been a really good third line center, fans seem to have over rated him because he's a home grown player. I doubt they even considered trading him but I think they should have.

[bubbsy]

Flames fans perhaps overrating the players. If Backlund was such a great 2nd line center, and Monahan was such a great top line center, and Hamilton was such a powerhouse top pairing dman then this team would be in the top half of the conference, rather than the bottom half.

I probably have a wildly differing opinion than most. Monahan is a first line center but not an upper echelon one. He has a great shot in close, one of the better in the league and finds opportunities to get to the right spots. He's not a fast skater, yet doesn't play a grinding & physical style. He's below average defensively. All of this is greatly overlooked due to playing with on of the top 5 play makers in the game at the moment.

Backlund is a decent skater, and just one of those jack of all trade players. He's not an overly offensive player and I think his recent point totals have been inflated by playing with Tkachuk. That's not a slight but I really think not having a upper echelon top line center and then having a 2nd line center that is bordering as an elite 3rd line center, has a lot to do with the offensive challenges the team sees.

Hamilton is a good complimentary top pairing dman. What I mean by this is that he's fine on the top pairing as long as you have an elite partner playing with him. Giordano does so much of the heavy lifting on that pairing. I would love to be proven wrong and have Hamilton man his own pairing with hamonic, and Brodie with Giordano, but that's a topic for another thread.

If our core was so great then this team would not be so average. In my opinion, this team's core is very small. Giordano, Gaudreau, tkatchuk. I'd probably lump Monahan in because he's on a great contract and his value to the flames is likely stronger than any return on a trade. Though, I sure would be ok if the flames tested that assumption a bit to be sure.

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Flames fans perhaps overrating the players. If Backlund was such a great 2nd line center, and Monahan was such a great top line center, and Hamilton was such a powerhouse top pairing dman then this team would be in the top half of the conference, rather than the bottom half.

If our core was so great then this team would not be so average. In my opinion, this team's core is very small. Giordano, Gaudreau, tkatchuk. I'd probably lump Monahan in because he's on a great contract and his value to the flames is likely stronger than any return on a trade. Though, I sure would be ok if the flames tested that assumption a bit to be sure.

The difference from the Flames being in the top half would be 3 wins. Small enough of a margin that I would say other factors have proven to more significant as to why we haven't seen the results: lack of depth, coaching, and recently goaltending.

Our core is pretty good. Unfortunately that's just not enough for an 82 game season because it comes down to who has the better overall depth.

[handgroen]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Backlund drafted in 2007 .. 11 years later after 11 playoff games 2 playoff goals 5 pts -4

The Flames decide they want more of the success that Backlund has brought and even though he is now just a few days away from being 29 years old and carrying a -10 and definitely not better than he was last year the Flames give him the last contract of his career locking him up for 1m less than the franchise level players are making.

They had a choice of trading him at the deadline for a late 1st and a prospect.

On the other hand look at St. L. ... Stastny was there for 3 playoffs years (out of 3) and played 33 playoff games 6 goals 17 pts -3.

Was St.L tired of winning and the Flames good with mediocrity ?

everyone was asking who could possibly replace Backlund? Statsny is a 32 year old UFA

I would rather have a 1 st round a prospect that would fit in our top 5 prospects and Statsny on a 2 year 6M deal starting 2018-19

but stastny is too busy playing for the post-season inexperienced, and therefore a bad team winnepeg jets.

am i doing this right ricardo?

if teams stink because of lack of playoff experience how crappy are the jets?

laine in particular is a bum who can't win in the playoffs.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Anduril

The difference from the Flames being in the top half would be 3 wins. Small enough of a margin that I would say other factors have proven to more significant as to why we haven't seen the results: lack of depth, coaching, and recently goaltending.

Our core is pretty good. Unfortunately that's just not enough for an 82 game season because it comes down to who has the better overall depth.

I agree with what your saying but I also agree with bubbsy. I can't picture our core getting the flames to the Stanley cup. Centremen are huge come playoff time. I don't see our 1-2 punch having what it takes to go 4 series. Maybe a couple.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Flames fans perhaps overrating the players. If Backlund was such a great 2nd line center, and Monahan was such a great top line center, and Hamilton was such a powerhouse top pairing dman then this team would be in the top half of the conference, rather than the bottom half.

I probably have a wildly differing opinion than most. Monahan is a first line center but not an upper echelon one. He has a great shot in close, one of the better in the league and finds opportunities to get to the right spots. He's not a fast skater, yet doesn't play a grinding & physical style. He's below average defensively. All of this is greatly overlooked due to playing with on of the top 5 play makers in the game at the moment.

Backlund is a decent skater, and just one of those jack of all trade players. He's not an overly offensive player and I think his recent point totals have been inflated by playing with Tkachuk. That's not a slight but I really think not having a upper echelon top line center and then having a 2nd line center that is bordering as an elite 3rd line center, has a lot to do with the offensive challenges the team sees.

Hamilton is a good complimentary top pairing dman. What I mean by this is that he's fine on the top pairing as long as you have an elite partner playing with him. Giordano does so much of the heavy lifting on that pairing. I would love to be proven wrong and have Hamilton man his own pairing with hamonic, and Brodie with Giordano, but that's a topic for another thread.

If our core was so great then this team would not be so average. In my opinion, this team's core is very small. Giordano, Gaudreau, tkatchuk. I'd probably lump Monahan in because he's on a great contract and his value to the flames is likely stronger than any return on a trade. Though, I sure would be ok if the flames tested that assumption a bit to be sure.

When Monahan is on, he is a great top line center, probably top 10 in the league. He tends to run hot and cold throughout a season though, and when he's cold offensively, he's not exceptional in most other categories to make up for the drop in offense. Right now, Monahan is ice cold.

I see it differently with Backlund. I believe he elevates Tkachuk's game and covers up his inadequacies with skating, stick-handling, and offensive creation. Backlund does a lot of heavy lifting on his line at BOTH ends of the ice, it's just that Tkachuk is an exceptional finisher, especially down low. Frolik's drop in offensive play this year has hurt that line more than anything. Plus, Backlund kills penalties with the best of them, produces on the 2nd PP unit, and provides leadership and character for the room. He's a vital piece to the make up of the team.

Hamilton is still an exceptional top pairing defenseman. He puts up a lot of points, and produces a lot of offensive chances. Yes Giordano does the yeoman's share of defensive play, but that doesn't mean Hamilton doesn't contribute defensively. I liken the situation to what I see in Florida: Ekblad is the defensive stalwart on the top pairing, and adds some offense, but he needs a good offensive partner in Yandle to make an effective pair. Put Giordano with a different defenseman, and I'm not sure the same results are there, especially with the decline in Brodie's play. I think if you put Hamilton with Hamonic, most of the same results would be there.

The team does have a good core, but there's little in terms of quality complimentary pieces on this team. Fill that in, and this team will do much better in the future.

Backlund is probably the 2nd most important forward on this team.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

When Monahan is on, he is a great top line center, probably top 10 in the league. He tends to run hot and cold throughout a season though, and when he's cold offensively, he's not exceptional in most other categories to make up for the drop in offense. Right now, Monahan is ice cold.

I see it differently with Backlund. I believe he elevates Tkachuk's game and covers up his inadequacies with skating, stick-handling, and offensive creation. Backlund does a lot of heavy lifting on his line at BOTH ends of the ice, it's just that Tkachuk is an exceptional finisher, especially down low. Frolik's drop in offensive play this year has hurt that line more than anything. Plus, Backlund kills penalties with the best of them, produces on the 2nd PP unit, and provides leadership and character for the room. He's a vital piece to the make up of the team.

Hamilton is still an exceptional top pairing defenseman. He puts up a lot of points, and produces a lot of offensive chances. Yes Giordano does the yeoman's share of defensive play, but that doesn't mean Hamilton doesn't contribute defensively. I liken the situation to what I see in Florida: Ekblad is the defensive stalwart on the top pairing, and adds some offense, but he needs a good offensive partner in Yandle to make an effective pair. Put Giordano with a different defenseman, and I'm not sure the same results are there, especially with the decline in Brodie's play. I think if you put Hamilton with Hamonic, most of the same results would be there.

The team does have a good core, but there's little in terms of quality complimentary pieces on this team. Fill that in, and this team will do much better in the future.

Backlund is probably the 2nd most important forward on this team.

Your last statement is probably true. That's not a good thing.

[calgarygringo]

I totally agree with your analysis and have been telling people the same every time we talk about this around the water cooler.
We have a a few above average players but no real snipers and superstars on this team and the ones that are are in the top 6. Once you get past that we are very weak. We need the bottom group to be a better quality player as well. Tre keeps picking up these cast offs for little or draft choices but in reality they are being cast off by these other teams for a reason. Why would they turn into great things here?
We have also had some injuries that haven't helped but come on Smith has a history of injuries and it was well discussed when he first came here so no one should be surprised. You can't put the whole team on one goalie who you know at some point will probably get hurt in some form and he did again.
If the guys also would play a 60 minute game and up to their potential we probably would be a playoff team but probably first round only at best.
Getting 50 shots in the game the other night and many around the 40 mark and no scoring also tells you they have no snipers in the group. Yes Johnny is a great setup guy but not a sniper. Chucky and Monny are not snipers either and they are our prime offense outside of our 2 defensive guys.
Tre needs to get some guys in here that are snipers and add to the mix so that if we have a 50 shot night several are going in. I goal in 50 shots does not cut it and the king was not that great either most were average shots at best.
Wake up and smell the coffee everyone as we are sitting where we are because this is what we have and until that changes this is probably as good as it gets.

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Flames fans perhaps overrating the players. If Backlund was such a great 2nd line center, and Monahan was such a great top line center, and Hamilton was such a powerhouse top pairing dman then this team would be in the top half of the conference, rather than the bottom half.

I probably have a wildly differing opinion than most. Monahan is a first line center but not an upper echelon one. He has a great shot in close, one of the better in the league and finds opportunities to get to the right spots. He's not a fast skater, yet doesn't play a grinding & physical style. He's below average defensively. All of this is greatly overlooked due to playing with on of the top 5 play makers in the game at the moment.

Backlund is a decent skater, and just one of those jack of all trade players. He's not an overly offensive player and I think his recent point totals have been inflated by playing with Tkachuk. That's not a slight but I really think not having a upper echelon top line center and then having a 2nd line center that is bordering as an elite 3rd line center, has a lot to do with the offensive challenges the team sees.

Hamilton is a good complimentary top pairing dman. What I mean by this is that he's fine on the top pairing as long as you have an elite partner playing with him. Giordano does so much of the heavy lifting on that pairing. I would love to be proven wrong and have Hamilton man his own pairing with hamonic, and Brodie with Giordano, but that's a topic for another thread.

If our core was so great then this team would not be so average. In my opinion, this team's core is very small. Giordano, Gaudreau, tkatchuk. I'd probably lump Monahan in because he's on a great contract and his value to the flames is likely stronger than any return on a trade. Though, I sure would be ok if the flames tested that assumption a bit to be sure.

[nemanja2306]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Well in fairness, Backlund hasn't lead his team in points or put a team on his back for multiple seasons. Backlund has had one really good season and other than that has been a really good third line center, fans seem to have over rated him because he's a home grown player. I doubt they even considered trading him but I think they should have.

But it's not expected of him to do that, though. He is a 2nd/3rd line defensive center who is capable of scoring between 40-50 points. His line last year was one of the best in the League in terms of driving the play and possession. This year, not AS good as last year, but still doing quite well. I think Backlund is doing his job and it's unfair to blame him for the team's lack of success. This isn't the NBA where one player is the whole team.

Flames issues IMO, are two-fold:

1) Coaching
2) Depth.

I won't get into the first one as there is a whole thread dedicated to the coaching staff.

The team doesn't have depth, though. Beyond the Johnny and Backlund line, the team doesn't have enough scoring punch. The first two lines are doing their job, but the bottom 6 is horrendous. When they're shut down or going through a cold stream (it happens to every line on every team), nobody is able to score.

Backlund is doing his job, he is not to blame.

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by handgroen

but stastny is too busy playing for the post-season inexperienced, and therefore a bad team winnepeg jets.

am i doing this right ricardo?

if teams stink because of lack of playoff experience how crappy are the jets?

laine in particular is a bum who can't win in the playoffs.

The Jets had good pieces in place, they drafted amazingly and the young guys stepped into important positions. Laine is elite and only helped them. They're a pretty young team and it's all coming together for them.

This is about Backlund. He hasn't carried the team, lead in points and he isn't young and improving, if anything I think he's hit his plateau. If the Flames want to be middle of the pack team who competes with 15-20 other teams then they're doing good job. If the Flames want to be a contender they need better players. Backlund being one of the most important players just goes to show how average this team is.

[Erick Estrada]

I like Backlund but this contract now puts him in territory where a 40 point season isn't really good enough anymore especially when his defensive play has slipped and he's not great at face-offs. He's a useful player for sure and will not likely be a boat anchor like Brouwer for instance but at the same time he's now tetering on the wrong side of value when you consider pay for play. IMO all this contract does is buy more of the same for the Flames and as an armchair GM that's not good enough because the goal is to be more than a bubble team. If I was Treliving I would be trying to pry ROR from Buffalo and dangling Brodie and whatever else it would take and then move Backlund for draft picks/top prospect. Easier said than done but this team really needs to be upgraded up front and Backlund as a 2nd line center clearly isn't good enough for this team to elevate from bubble team to contender.

[jayswin]

^^^^^

There's basically no way Backlund can live up to that contract, Brad stopped just short of admitting that. It was unfortunately a necessity to ink him though, because of how good he is defensively for us.

What's really going to make that contract hurt is that it's looking like the Flames aren't going to be contenders during the first two years when he'll be worth his AAV, then he'll start dropping off after that. Ouch.

[Anduril]

For all the praise that Winnipeg is getting after years of "this is their breakout year", it's come after so many early first round picks. A couple pieces were in place throughout their history of mediocrity in Little, Wheeler, Byfuglien, Enstrom.

A top 6 center, top line winger and a mix of a stud and dependable defensemen. Not too far off from what the Flames are working with at the moment.

Then you add in Scheifele (7th overall in 2011), Trouba (9th overall in 2012), Morrissey (13th overall in 2013) Ehlers (9th overall in 2014), and Laine (2nd overall in 2016).

So there's some credit to be given to be nailing so many of their 1st round picks even if majority is in the top 10. It's pretty easy to look like a good drafting team compared to the Flames. If we had one more success story from the first round this would be a different season. Whether that's Bartschi, Bennett or one of our picks in 2013 outside of Monahan (Poirier/Klimchuk). Then again ifs and buts...


Also on a 'fun' note, the Flames have 5 1st round picks from 2013. (Monahan, Lazar, Shinkaruk, Poirier and Klimchuk). If we ended up with Hartman which we were reportedly in on that would've been the 6th.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Anduril

For all the praise that Winnipeg is getting after years of "this is their breakout year", it's come after so many early first round picks. A couple pieces were in place throughout their history of mediocrity in Little, Wheeler, Byfuglien, Enstrom.

A top 6 center, top line winger and a mix of a stud and dependable defensemen. Not too far off from what the Flames are working with at the moment.

Then you add in Scheifele (7th overall in 2011), Trouba (9th overall in 2012), Morrissey (13th overall in 2013) Ehlers (9th overall in 2014), and Laine (2nd overall in 2016).

So there's some credit to be given to be nailing so many of their 1st round picks even if majority is in the top 10. It's pretty easy to look like a good drafting team compared to the Flames. If we had one more success story from the first round this would be a different season. Whether that's Bartschi, Bennett or one of our picks in 2013 outside of Monahan (Poirier/Klimchuk). Then again ifs and buts...


Also on a 'fun' note, the Flames have 5 1st round picks from 2013. (Monahan, Lazar, Shinkaruk, Poirier and Klimchuk). If we ended up with Hartman which we were reportedly in on that would've been the 6th.

I don't think anyone will argue that the Jets and Ducks are the gold standards when it comes to drafting. Like a lot of things drafting can always be better but the Jets have been every bit the bubble team the Flames have since they have been in Winnipeg and have consistently drafted top 10 more than the Flames. It appears the talent finally matured there enough to overcome what is a very average coach.

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I don't think anyone will argue that the Jets and Ducks are the gold standards when it comes to drafting. Like a lot of things drafting can always be better but the Jets have been every bit the bubble team the Flames have since they have been in Winnipeg and have consistently drafted top 10 more than the Flames. It appears the talent finally matured there enough to overcome what is a very average coach.

Don't know about very average but I'd say it's more the fact that they finally have better than below average goaltending.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by jayswin

^^^^^

There's basically no way Backlund can live up to that contract, Brad stopped just short of admitting that. It was unfortunately a necessity to ink him though, because of how good he is defensively for us.

What's really going to make that contract hurt is that it's looking like the Flames aren't going to be contenders during the first two years when he'll be worth his AAV, then he'll start dropping off after that. Ouch.

A necessity if you want to 'win now'

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by jayswin

^^^^^

There's basically no way Backlund can live up to that contract, Brad stopped just short of admitting that. It was unfortunately a necessity to ink him though, because of how good he is defensively for us.

What's really going to make that contract hurt is that it's looking like the Flames aren't going to be contenders during the first two years when he'll be worth his AAV, then he'll start dropping off after that. Ouch.

First of all, we don't know that the Flames won't be contenders in the first two years of the contract - predicting next year is impossible, never mind the year after.

Second, even if they aren't, that doesn't make it a bad contract - you need players, you have to ice a team. Despite what some people try to suggest, the object of the NHL is not to amass draft picks.

And third, I would argue that Backlund will be worth more than the AAV in the first two years.