[PGT] Rangers 3 - Flames 1

[868904]

Originally Posted by Duffalufagus

The big assumption in your post is that the expectations for the roster were realistic. We were wrong. This team lacks serious depth and just isn’t very good. GG is gone in the offseason. But serious roster moves also need to be made before this team is a real contender.

Coaching matters. Look at Vegas. A good coach changes everything. I don't want to rip this roster to shreds until I see what an established and good coach can do with it.

GG was never a qualified coach. Never won anything in the minors, never won in the NHL. I like Tre but he over analyzed the coaching hire. He interviewed too many people and did too much background checks on GG. GG is a nice guy, and that's why people who worked with him in the past or played with him in the past had nice things to say about him, but that doesn't mean he's a good coach. Tre put too much stock into the positive things people said about GG and overlooked the resume.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by GeoRock

On the way to the game last night the guys on The Fan were saying our response after Colorado loss could define the season, and that a loss to the Rangers would destroy the fan hopefuls. The Rangers early goal killed all energy from the crowd on what should have been a fun Friday night game, it was awful. Anyone else at the game hear the resounding sigh of disappointment when the buzzer went? I think season ticket holders are quite frustrated. Boring ass game so much so that you could hear the players yelling to each other on the ice. Really disappointing entertainment value on what I hoped would be a quality opportunity to light it up. At least my pocket dog was good, extra mustard is where it's at. Bright side.

And with all the negativity generated by the arena debacle I see a lot of STHs like myself giving up on the Flames next year. There was what one enjoyable home game this year and I think it was an OT win over a team the Flames should have defeated in regulation anyway. Garbage system, boring hockey. No entertainment at all.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by DomeFoam

When you really think about the price paid for Hamonic you're talking a potential cornerstone player in the top 15, and 2 solid players like an Andersson or Fox, and mind you this is a deep draft so who knows what lies in that 2nd round. I love Hamonic, but we got absolutely fleeced on this trade and Trelivings decisions in terms of this trade, the Brouwer signing and the Gulutzan hiring among others make this guy look a lot less competent than we thought.

Vitually no chance.

First of all, you're not likely to get a cornerstone player unless you're drafting top 3. But let's gear that down to a top 6 forward.

Even then, the chances of a top 6 forward, plus an Andersson, plus a Fox, from those 3 picks is extremely low.

One of the 3? You would expect at least that. Getting 2 of those 3? That would be awesome. All 3? Not a chance.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

team scores 1 goal or less: lose.

fans look at lineup replete with 7 or 8 guys who don't score and never have: blame the coach.

Bottom 2 lines look almost nothing like they did to start the season: crickets

One of the lowest scoring teams in the league last year and added no scoring: fans think contender.

This team was so good at scoring goals they gifted a middle six roster spot to a 45 year old. Signed Tanner Glass off a PTO (Because hey, beats playing Lomberg).

Explain to me how this is a good team again? I really don't see it.

Treliving honeymoon over. Selling all your draft picks to scrape into 11th place is not a winning strategy.

Just imagine this season with a Gaudreau, Monahan or Tkachuk injury.

This is an embarrassing roster.

Let me beat this dead horse one more time. I will give you the roster holes for argument's sake.
This still does not excuse the terribly designed system. This team went D heavy. So, given your lack of forwards and abundance of skill on D, you would think our offense would be designed to reflect those strengths and weaknesses... no? Fast transitions, D leading/supporting the attack, etc. That's what we are doing, right? A coach that cannot adapt to the tools he is given is not a good coach. GG must have spent his formative years watching the Soviet national team and the Red Wings in their heyday. That 5 man unit thing was great. Someone should tell GG he has Brouwer instead of Datsyuk....

[868904]

Originally Posted by Galakanokis

Isn't LA's goal scoring way up this compared to last year? Kopitar, Brown and others having way better years than they did under Sutter? Coaching can absolutely have an impact on a players performance. Majority of the players are not going anywhere so you need to change something up.

I still believe the glut of defensemen will be used to grab a young, up and coming winger.

Shelf life, all coaches, good and bad have a shelf life. Babcocks' last years in Detroit weren't good either.

Sutter won two cups in LA. That team was like the Flames prior to Sutter getting hired; good young roster that was under achieving.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Let me beat this dead horse one more time. I will give you the roster holes for argument's sake.
This still does not excuse the terribly designed system. This team went D heavy. So, given your lack of forwards and abundance of skill on D, you would think our offense would be designed to reflect those strengths and weaknesses... no? Fast transitions, D leading/supporting the attack, etc. That's what we are doing, right? A coach that cannot adapt to the tools he is given is not a good coach. GG must have spent his formative years watching the Soviet national team and the Red Wings in their heyday. That 5 man unit thing was great. Someone should tell GG he has Brouwer instead of Datsyuk....

Good one, thx, enjoyed a lot!!!

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Let me beat this dead horse one more time. I will give you the roster holes for argument's sake.
This still does not excuse the terribly designed system. This team went D heavy. So, given your lack of forwards and abundance of skill on D, you would think our offense would be designed to reflect those strengths and weaknesses... no? Fast transitions, D leading/supporting the attack, etc. That's what we are doing, right? A coach that cannot adapt to the tools he is given is not a good coach. GG must have spent his formative years watching the Soviet national team and the Red Wings in their heyday. That 5 man unit thing was great. Someone should tell GG he has Brouwer instead of Datsyuk....

Sure, Gulutzan sucks.

He sucks because he can't make a terrible roster less terrible.

So they fire the coach. The team gets more entertaining. I don't doubt for a second that the team would be more entertaining with a less demanding systems coach.

They've gone all in on a defensive roster. hire a coach to get the most out of that stacked defense, right?

Hire Tippet?

Do you honestly believe the flames owners are going to pony up 3+ million a year on a coach when they will be paying GG a million to sit at home?

Is there a way to make defensive hockey entertaining? i'm not sure there is. So if you want entertaining hockey, doesn't that mean you have to like, go against the grain of the team Treliving has built?

Like, does career high in goals of 5 Travis Hamonic become a 10 goal guy playing for Marc Crawford or John Stevens or Guy Boucher?

This is what I don't understand; how can anyone look at a roster full of plumbers and think Gretzky or Dallas Eakins or whoever is going to be able to win with them at the same time as letting them play loose?

Fire all the coaches. Is Joel Quennville really, really going to entertain coming to the flames? Are the Flames ready to pay him 5 million dollars a year to coach for them?

I just don't see it. It's the organization that is the problem.

[nik-]

Flash, your hardheadedness on this is astounding. This coach mismanages an already mediocre roster.

Dude, we get it, the roster has problems. We all get your sarcastic posts about the coach. Most people accept that the coach isn't the only problem. That doesn't change that the coach still is weak, can't adapt during a game, is unable to motivate any players and has brutal player management.

He's ####, and I can't wait until he's gone.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Yeah. Burke has had a good run based on Edmonton needing to ditch Pronger, and Scott Niedermayer wanting to play with Rob.

I mean, really? What other GM has had two softballs like this with the arguably top 2 D at the time falling in his lap?

He parlayed it in to a career defining cup win then sewered the leafs and has done pretty much nothing here in a leadership role.

Dumb luck, good run, off you go

I am no fan of Burke, but he still had to get the Pronger deal done, and had the foresight to get Rob. The Sedins draft was good work too.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by nik-

Flash, your hardheadedness on this is astounding. This coach mismanages an already mediocre roster.

Dude, we get it, the roster has problems. We all get your sarcastic posts about the coach. Most people accept that the coach isn't the only problem. That doesn't change that the coach still is weak, can't adapt during a game, is unable to motivate any players and has brutal player management.

He's ####, and I can't wait until he's gone.

I mean, sure. I don't think I'm being hardheaded. I don't care if gulutzan is canned or not.

I don't see a scenario where a qualified coach will both want to be the coach of the flames and also be at a price point the owners will want to pay.

So it'll be another Gilbert or Playfair or retread like Crawford. Someone out of the game just long enough to come cheaply but not good enough that they have a pick of destinations to choose from.

Watch the next coaching hire be someone like Clouston.

[Galakanokis]

Originally Posted by 868904

Shelf life, all coaches, good and bad have a shelf life. Babcocks' last years in Detroit weren't good either.

Sutter won two cups in LA. That team was like the Flames prior to Sutter getting hired; good young roster that was under achieving.

I wasn't knocking Sutter, I love that man and would be fine with him returning. And absolutely agree on the shelf life theory. Just pointing out to some that defend Gulutzan that coaching can have a major impact on player performance and overall stats. I hate the way the Flames play right now, it is stifling for them, opponents and fans. I'm not convinced the roster is as bad as some make it out to seem. It's not great by any means but the guys are out there second guessing everything they do, that's no way to play.

[Toonage]

People have brought up Tippett but did he not have a falling out with Don Maloney? Would Maloney being employed by the Flames be a factor?

[JurassicTunga12]

Come back to see that the Flames did not in fact comeback in this game.



What a serious disappointment of a season.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I mean, sure. I don't think I'm being hardheaded. I don't care if gulutzan is canned or not.

I don't see a scenario where a qualified coach will both want to be the coach of the flames and also be at a price point the owners will want to pay.

So it'll be another Gilbert or Playfair or retread like Crawford. Someone out of the game just long enough to come cheaply but not good enough that they have a pick of destinations to choose from.

Watch the next coaching hire be someone like Clouston.

So because we might not get a top coach we should stick with this tragedy?

What's the plan here?

[Corral]

even if Flames owners would pay top dollar for a coach (and i agree that doesn't appear likely), i don't see one of those highly sought after coaches coming here. Calgary just isn't the destination people here think it is or should be. from a coaching perspective, even just our travel schedule is highly problematic and makes it less desirable. Its why we get the retreads rookies or locals.

[Corral]

Originally Posted by nik-

So because we might not get a top coach we should stick with this tragedy?

What's the plan here?

Stay the course. Sell as many season tickets merchandise and beer as possible. Redesign the jersey to increase sales ... sign Iggy to a preseason PTO .... you get the drift.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by nik-

So because we might not get a top coach we should stick with this tragedy?

What's the plan here?

I'm not advocating to keep gulutzan. I thought he should've been replaced before Christmas to avoid handing the islanders a lotto pick.

December 2nd:

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Fire Gulutzan because this team cannot afford to miss and draft for the first time at 72 overall

You fire the coach in hopes of jumpstarting your team, accumulating enough points of the resulting hot streak that pushes the overall play of the roster to the point where they barely make the playoffs and avoid giving the Islanders that pick.

Basically, I think the coach is largely inconsequential for this roster right now, and to entertain ideas of Quennville coming to Calgary to coach this roster are in my opinion, fantasy.

What stopped Big Baby Boudreau from coming to calgary in the offseason when Francis seemed convinced it was about to happen? Whatever that reason, you can likely apply it to a wide range of qualified coaches.

[VladtheImpaler]

My forlorn hope is that the arena debacle will lead to a change of ownership and then the all the garbage from KK on down will get cleaned out. Long shot I know. But Bill Wirtz did die and the Hawks rose from the ashes, so maybe there is a chance.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Corral

Stay the course. Sell as many season tickets merchandise and beer as possible. Redesign the jersey to increase sales ... sign Iggy to a preseason PTO .... you get the drift.

I haven't busted this one out in awhile:


Rock Solid Plan™

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I mean, sure. I don't think I'm being hardheaded. I don't care if gulutzan is canned or not.

I don't see a scenario where a qualified coach will both want to be the coach of the flames and also be at a price point the owners will want to pay.

So it'll be another Gilbert or Playfair or retread like Crawford. Someone out of the game just long enough to come cheaply but not good enough that they have a pick of destinations to choose from.

Watch the next coaching hire be someone like Clouston.

I have never read or seen anything that indicates the Flames would balk at a number like 1M to have Gully sit at home or to spend big on a head coach. In the modern day era the Flames have been close to a cap team and never balked at spending money on management or the roster.