[PGT] Rangers 3 - Flames 1

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

The list of forwards Treliving has acquired since becoming GM is brutally underwhelming.

The group forwards he has let go - Byron / Hudler / Granlund / Baertschi / Colborne is a better group than the guys he has acquired. Chiasson / Grant are a wash as he both acquired them and let them go.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Kybb79

Monahan is a 2nd line centre on a real playoff team.

not this again lol

[Super-Rye]

The most worrying thing for me is this was not a good game when the team really needed one. With the position they are in they really needed to come out and jump all over a team below them in the standings. I know they outshot the Rangers in the first, but how many of those shots were really dangerous? Didn't feel like a whole lot.

The turnovers by core players at key moments has been a problem for this team all season. They were not good at any point tonight. They were sloppy, slow and predictable right from the get go. 2 goals were a direct result of players not playing till the whistle/giving up on the play. This is not a playoff team.

I basically gave up watching this team on a regular basis in December. They didn't show any progression up to that point in the season and figured that this team wasn't going to make the playoffs. Now it is crunch time and I am still seeing the same terrible mistakes and a lack of any progression.

This team has no killer instinct. They play a slow and with no urgency, and it bleeds into other parts of their game, like special teams.

The coaches roll 4 lines despite the fact they don't even really have 3 worth playing. Players like Brouwer and Stajan get free passes because they're veterans despite being god awful for most of the season. They refuse to switch up lines during the game despite slow and sloppy starts. This team just doesn't have their heads in the game and they haven't for most of the season.

Does the team need a roster shakeup? Absolutely. The players are not blameless in this and I'm sure we will see a couple core players shipped out.

But my biggest fear is we get to the offseason and we get to hear excuses like "Our advanced stats were really good." "We lost our MVP Mike Smith and if we had him we like our chances to make the playoffs." and more awful crap like that while management tries to sell us on another year of this terrible coaching staff.

I'd love for this team to prove me wrong and make the playoffs but nothing I've seen from them this year has shown me they will do that.

[Kybb79]

I speak the truth Fan Boy!

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

The group forwards he has let go - Byron / Hudler / Granlund / Baertschi / Colborne is a better group than the guys he has acquired. Chiasson / Grant are a wash as he both acquired them and let them go.

I will give you Byron as a mistake...not so much on the rest

Hudler/Colborne?

I will gladly take the pick we got for Hudler and Colborne he was smart to let walk obviously. Look where those guys are now

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Kybb79

I speak the truth Fan Boy!

you speak the troll...and one of the biggest CP trolls was there to thank your post

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

I want coach Q

He is a great coach. His teams always pushed the throttle down, making 2-1 leads into 4-1 runaways. Of course he had talent through out the roster.

[Dion]

[Kybb79]

Originally Posted by dino7c

you speak the troll...and one of the biggest CP trolls was there to thank your post

Lol Im a true Flames Fan buddy. Im sick of this soft team. You just brown nose around here. I speak the truth.

[browna]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I said its would be an excuse if it hadn't happened 20 times already.

I don't need to be on a side I am calling it like it is and racking my brain for solutions...Flames often control play but need 4 or 5 times as many chances to score a goal.

Seems obvious they need more pure scoring in the forward ranks...and less dead weight

That, but some timely goals and certainly PP goals when the PP went ice cold in January, such as that game against the Oilers especially, and Buffalo and the Kings that week as well, would’ve put that game out of reach midway through the second period. Instead the dominant Flames to that point let the foot of the throat of the Oilers and instead of 4-1 and probably a 6-2 final, the Flames kept the Oilers in it and lost a point in OT.
Happened aroind Christmas as I’ve mentioned with SJ and ANA too.

It’s really just the Rangers game tonight, a few weeks back, and then Dallas earlier this week, where the Flames have had this many chances not go in. Most of the time it’s the coach not pushing the players to finish teams once and for all.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Kybb79

Lol Im a true Flames Fan buddy. Im sick of this soft team. You just brown nose around here. I speak the truth.

You blame the leading goal scorer for the team not making the playoffs SMRT

Plenty of "real playoff teams" would be okay with the 30-30 plus 1st line center. The Flames issues obviously lie further down the lineup

[Nelson]

I just wanted to respond to the people suggesting Treliving should be fired. If he should be fired, it is because of the coaching hires he has made, not his roster construction.

I think he has assembled a playoff-caliber roster.

If you ignore the injuries to the bottom six and goaltending position and don't play putrid players like Chris Stewart (Shore was the much better acquisition), here is the roster:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Bennett
Tkachuk - Backlund - Frolik
Versteeg - Jankowski - Ferland
Stajan - Shore - Brouwer

Giordano - Hamilton
Brodie - Hamonic
Kulak - Stone

Smith

If that roster does not make the playoffs, it has underperformed. In my view, injuries cannot fully explain the underperformance.

The coaching staff has made some brutal decisions and I think these decisions explain the majority of the underperformance.
--It took them too long to put Dougie Hamilton and Matthew Tkachuk on PP1 while it floundered for large parts of the season.
--The coaches chose to ice Matt Bartkowski.
--I trust that the coaches will stop playing Stewart once Ferland and Versteeg return, but if they do not, that will be a decision as bad as playing Bartkowski.
--Employing mostly passive formations on the PK.

Treliving is responsible for both roster construction and coaching hires. My point is Treliving should feel the heat, but for his coaching hires, not his roster construction.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by browna

That, but some timely goals and certainly PP goals when the PP went ice cold in January, such as that game against the Oilers especially, and Buffalo and the Kings that week as well, would’ve put that game out of reach midway through the second period. Instead the dominant Flames to that point let the foot of the throat of the Oilers and instead of 4-1 and probably a 6-2 final, the Flames kept the Oilers in it and lost a point in OT.
Happened aroind Christmas as I’ve mentioned with SJ and ANA too.

It’s really just the Rangers game tonight, a few weeks back, and then Dallas earlier this week, where the Flames have had this many chances not go in. Most of the time it’s the coach not pushing the players to finish teams once and for all.

This has been a thing almost all season long actually. Okay, maybe to not quite this degree but to varying degrees of this it has been a way too common occurrence.

Outshoot and supposedly out CORSI the opponent, more often than not lose where it really counts. No good.

[Darth Tkachuk]

If this team hasn't got it figured out by this point of the season, there are big big issues that need to be dealt with this offseason. Stick a fork in them, they are done.

[CGY12]

Fact of the matter is the Flames have never really been fortunate to have competent management. You only make the Hamonic trade if you are on the cusp of a Stanley Cup. This team got SWEPT in round 1 last year and now you turn around and trade your 1st rounder for a guy you want to slot in behind Gio, Hamilton and Brodie... i.e a #4 dman?? And don't lottery protect it.. it literally makes no sense.

Hiring coaches who are not a fit, trading away 1st rounders, signing veterans to gross over valued contracts, not addressing the goalie situation prior to this year, BT has actually done a terrible job.

The Penguins have won back to back cups, can anybody name their top 6 D over those 2 seasons? This idea that you need to be loaded on D and that it takes precedent over addressing issues up front is ridiculous, yet the Flames have had this strategy for what 10 years? First with the Regehr, Phaneuf and Bouwmeester trio and now with the current crop. The Preds are the only team that I can think of that have had any success in the last 10 years building from the back end out and they haven't won a cup, on top of that they actually have a really strong quick forward group.

The Flames are so thin up front its laughable, they lack speed, they lack skill, but sure lets continue to trade 1st rounders and continue to prioritize D over forwards during the offseason.

Don't get me wrong GG is absolutely putrid and the wrong guy to lead any team let alone the Flames, but BT should lose his job just for the Hamonic trade, let alone his overall perception of what wins in this league and every other bad move he's made.

Its frustrating but I'm used to the Flames being the most mediocre franchise in the NHL.

[Duffalufagus]

This team is the Oilers or worse without the Vezina caliber goaltending it got all year. I don’t k is how anyone could deny it.

Must win game at home and they lose to a team that has mailed in the season.

It is over folks. This is no playoff team.

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by browna

The Flames pissed away points in December to SJ and LA and Anaheim when they dominated games with their roster and found a way to lose. Treliving read the riot act to GG to regain the room and he tossed his stick. It worked for those 7 games and that it. They then lost the next 4 to Buf LA Edm and Wpg and the team had tuned him out.

Sure, now you're seeing the roster implode and not have top quality goaltending to bail them out, but for the most part this roster has shown to be very good this year. They just need decent goaltending and a coaching staff that can help them navigate tough rough patches. But the coaching staff has list the room months ago.

Agree with pretty much everything you're saying in this thread, except the bolded: Flames had started winning before the stick toss (which was initiated by a lazy practice after a win). They won a few more after that, then slumped. I still maintain that the stick toss did little to nothing, as evidenced by players laughing it off in interviews later that day.

As for this game, I briefly thought about writing another post with my usual critiques about personnel decisions, strategy (still no one-timers on the 1st PP), etc., etc., but I just can't be bothered. Apathy has set in. I hope the Flames win, but can't get any emotional investment any more.

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by sa226

I don't care about the 1st rounder. Its a sunk cost. The price paid was reasonable for a cost controlled top 4 dman with term. I think they would probably do it again.

I agree about the 1st rounder. But with hindsight, I think that kind of trade was totally unnecessary. Brodie/Stone were very reliable last season as the second pairing, which I think has actually regressed this year with Brodie/Hamonic. The one big benefit is depth in case of injury, but (touch wood) they've all managed to stay healthy this year (with the exception of Hamonic, although he's only missed four games).

Originally Posted by sa226

I would say this. Im not necessarily in favour of removing Gulutzan for another "up and comer." I fear it would be much of the same. But if a proven coach were to somehow come available that fits your organizational philosophy, you go all in.

I don't know how you can't go all in with a proven coach. Treliving doesn't push his chips in for Hamonic if the team doesn't perform like they did the second half of the regular season last year. It's now clear that Gulutzan isn't able to consistently sustain that kind of performance, so either you waste another year watching them play 0.500 hockey or you make the change.

For me, if there isn't demonstrated improvement in 2018/19 (year 2 of the "window being open"), you go looking for a new GM because I don't want Treliving at the helm with Frolik, Brodie, Hamonic and Stone all on expiring contracts in 2019/20.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Duffalufagus

This team is the Oilers or worse without the Vezina caliber goaltending it got all year. I don’t k is how anyone could deny it.

Must win game at home and they lose to a team that has mailed in the season.

It is over folks. This is no playoff team.

Team save percentage is bottom half of the league...backups were no good. Smith has been really good but nowhere near Vezina caliber people need to stop saying that.

He wouldn't have even been nominated he was top 10 though

2.53 .921 not quite vezina caliber

[Magnum PEI]

Brodie has been spectacularly awful these last three games. I think he's been on the ice for every 5-on-5 goal against, except the Hayes goal in the first tonight.

Was at the game, was there ever any evidence the puck went completely over the line on the second goal?