Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal

[getbak]

I just got back from the Bettman luncheon. As expected, nothing was said about the arena one way or the other.

There wasn't anything insightful (or inciteful) said at all. Pretty much everything we've heard Bettman say for the last 25 years.

Lunch was good though.

[RM14]

Originally Posted by getbak

Lunch was good though.

That crusted soup appy was amazing.


The discussion was really corny. The most interesting thing was a discussion of how they are looking into changing the pucks with microchip technology inside. The NHL is working with a "German MIT school" and testing them out now. The puck material may change, but he said the test show that the new puck will still act exactly like the current puck.

[Hockey Fan #751]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I disagree with this.

The only way an owner would be willing to bring a franchise to Calgary is if the City provides them with a shiny new arena, and that will be a condition that Bettman puts on the relocation of a franchise to Calgary.

Calgary sat 20th in the league last year in revenue, and 19th in operating Income. Why would the NHL relocate a franchise to a team in the bottom third or close to the bottom third of the league currently that makes no sense.

Lets say that the Flames did leave calgary, probably won't happen but lets say they did leave. Calgary would go to pretty much the bottom of the list of relocation and expansion cities that the NHL would consider.

Also as much as we talk about local owners, I'm curious as to who as a local owner would step forward and be willing to buy the team is fund a arena. I can't think of one.

This x100

People keep saying that another team will be here in a nanosecond after the Flames leave but that's just not the case. Where would that team be coming from?

It would be more similar to when the NBA left Seattle. They're now 10 years without a team and I'd put money down that they won't see one until well into next decade.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by RM14

That crusted soup appy was amazing.


The discussion was really corny. The most interesting thing was a discussion of how they are looking into changing the pucks with microchip technology inside. The NHL is working with a "German MIT school" and testing them out now. The puck material may change, but he said the test show that the new puck will still act exactly like the current puck.

For goal reviews? Or for other stuff as well (shot speed, etc).

[RM14]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

For goal reviews? Or for other stuff as well (shot speed, etc).

He spoke in terms of in game stats, and their mission to expand the in-game data available to expand content for second screen viewing.

I would hope they could use it for goal reviews as well.

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

If our current ownership group/organization has this sort of attitude towards the city, and can't accept a fair deal, I say good riddance. As you said in the bolded, there will be another owner willing to come to Calgary with a team, and it will happen quite soon after a flames team ever tries to leave.
Good riddance to Murray Edwards and his petulance, and good riddance to ken king. Both are (and always have been) dramatically out of touch with the fan base. Hotchkiss is probably spinning in his grave.

What sort of attitude? And Calgary doesn't have any billionaires anymore according to the Calgary Herald, just a few guys with varying connections to the city that don't live here anymore. Edwards, Chip Wilson who lives in Vancouver, and Garret Camp who lives in San Francisco.

And as others have rightly pointed out, even if someone tries to move a franchise here it will be with the condition of having a new building in place, at a worse deal for the City than the Flames were offering. No one's riding in on a white horse to buy the Flames and keep them in the dome, or even buy them and accept the city's deal. Guys that rich aren't stupid, they know it's a money losing proposition.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by RM14

He spoke in terms of in game stats, and their mission to expand the in-game data available to expand content for second screen viewing.

I would hope they could use it for goal reviews as well.

Yeah, that was really the only "new" thing he talked about.

It does sound like interesting technology. If it works the way he said, with precision to the fraction of a mm, there's no reason to think it couldn't be used for goal reviews.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

Ultimately the more and more I see the economic situation in Canada and in the oil and gas industry as a whole the more I question whether Calgary is long term viable or if we are heading for a long bleak economic recession and exodus as capital flees this province and country as there are better opportunities to build and make money outside of Canada and especially for the O&G industry as it is impossible for the governments in this country to get out of their own way.

All that was to say that I don’t think the team leaving is really that far fetched and I think if a Phoenix arena deal gets done, Calgary becomes the number 1 candidate to move to Houston and I believe it will happen. Not sure if Murray would ever sell but I can see how it would make economic sense for him.

Sustaining production in the Alberta Oilsands is a very low cost source of oil. 2015 is as bad as Calgary gets as that year no one was investing in even sustaining production. That was the doomsday scenario for Calgary in terms of vacancy and GDP. The high initial capital and low sustaining and operating costs relative to US shale hurts us from expanding production but provides a production floor.

[ssjshmo]

Originally Posted by RM14

That crusted soup appy was amazing.


The discussion was really corny. The most interesting thing was a discussion of how they are looking into changing the pucks with microchip technology inside. The NHL is working with a "German MIT school" and testing them out now. The puck material may change, but he said the test show that the new puck will still act exactly like the current puck.

OMG Glow puck era coming back?!?! Yes!!!

[Manhattanboy]

I continue to be so out of touch with the majority of Flames fans, not to mention the majority of the population of the City at large, who don't think it would be all that big a deal if the Flames were to leave.

I have worked in downtown Calgary for years and have experienced the ups and downs of the business cycles. For the first time, for all of the obvious reasons, I am seriously worried for the future of this City. The flow of investment capital continues to decline.

The departure of the Flames would be a huge blow in my view.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by GGG

Sustaining production in the Alberta Oilsands is a very low cost source of oil. 2015 is as bad as Calgary gets as that year no one was investing in even sustaining production. That was the doomsday scenario for Calgary in terms of vacancy and GDP. The high initial capital and low sustaining and operating costs relative to US shale hurts us from expanding production but provides a production floor.

Agreed. I work for a pipeline company and seeing the frustrations of getting regulatory approval for projects is starting to take its toll as it is preventing increased investment as there are 100s if easier places to make money without the excess government hassle. I just think this will long term impact our ability to really drive economic growth and keep pace as a city. Still don’t see us as a long term city for the nhl without a new arena. And I don’t think that’s happening anytime soon

[Frequitude]

Can somebody in attendance please as Bettman this:
"The City's proposal is roughly split between Flames Contribution, Ticket Tax, and City contribution, then rent or property taxes depending on who owns the arena. You and the Flames have repeatedly said that the City's proposal consists of the Flames paying for everything. I'll give you that the ticket tax is really just a Flames contribution due to foregone revenue. So are you implying that rent or property taxes count as that City contribution actually being a Flames contribution?"

If he says "yes", please follow up with:
"Regular homeowners like your fans and the taxpayers have to both build or buy their house and then also pay property taxes on it. Why should team owners be treated differently?"

If he says "no", please follow up with:
"Could you please explain then how the city's proposal represents the Flames paying for everything?"

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

Can somebody in attendance please as Bettman this

It's been over for an hour. They didn't open the floor to questions and no arena-related questions were asked if any were submitted.

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by getbak

It's been over for an hour. They didn't open the floor to questions and no arena-related questions were asked if any were submitted.

I read gud.

That's pretty cowardly and a powerful sign.

[CorbeauNoir]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

I continue to be so out of touch with the majority of Flames fans, not to mention the majority of the population of the City at large, who don't think it would be all that big a deal if the Flames were to leave.

I have worked in downtown Calgary for years and have experienced the ups and downs of the business cycles. For the first time, for all of the obvious reasons, I am seriously worried for the future of this City. The flow of investment capital continues to decline.

The departure of the Flames would be a huge blow in my view.

It'd be no small loss as a canary-in-the-mineshaft signal, but I would say Alberta only having one NHL team to root for is the absolute least of our worries for exactly this reason. It'd be like living through the decline of Detroit and saying "but what about the Tigers?"

[RM14]

Originally Posted by CorbeauNoir

It'd be no small loss as a canary-in-the-mineshaft signal, but I would say Alberta only having one NHL team to root for is the absolute least of our worries for exactly this reason. It'd be like living through the decline of Detroit and saying "but what about the Tigers?"

Even so. Detroit has never lost a team and has had 3 modern stadiums built. 'Merica

[yourbestfriend]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

I read gud.

That's pretty cowardly and a powerful sign.

How so?
He made it blatantly clear even before he got to Calgary that there was nothing to discuss because the CSEC isn't pursing it anymore.
The trip to Calgary had nothing to do with the arena... it's just the press and the fans who are making a big deal out of it.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

I have worked in downtown Calgary for years and have experienced the ups and downs of the business cycles. For the first time, for all of the obvious reasons, I am seriously worried for the future of this City. The flow of investment capital continues to decline.

Presumably, you weren't here in the 80s. That bust was worse. Much worse.

[Stay Golden]

Bettman rips on the Flames today with his Flames are receiving revenue cheques statement???
Look at the crap exchange rate Gary the Weasel.
He Said it with the tone Calgary is a negative financial market.
Yet
Flames in the top half of the NHL ranks 11th overall in home attendance @ 18.8k
Yes even above the NHL's beloved Greasers
There are 8 teams s 15k and under and that is with the NHL juicing their figures we have all seen the games with 5-8k at them. ANA, NJ, ARZ, CAR, FLA, NYI, COL, DET all with lousey visual attendance.
Bettman Get your greasey gerbal sized hands off our Canadian team.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Bettman rips on the Flames today with his Flames are receiving revenue cheques statement???
Look at the crap exchange rate Gary the Weasel.
He Said it with the tone Calgary is a negative financial market.
Yet
Flames in the top half of the NHL ranks 11th overall in home attendance @ 18.8k
Yes even above the NHL's beloved Greasers
There are 8 teams s 15k and under and that is with the NHL juicing their figures we have all seen the games with 5-8k at them. ANA, NJ, ARZ, CAR, FLA, NYI, COL, DET all with lousey visual attendance.
Bettman Get your greasey gerbal sized hands off our Canadian team.

you're kind of proving bettman's point. if the flames have more fans going to the games than Edmonton for example, why are they then not making more money than edmonton?
money being left on the table with the old arena.