The trials and tribulations of Glen Gulutzan

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Locke

I dont think anyone has made the claim that this roster is elite.

But if you believe what you're saying is true then it doesnt matter if we fire Gulutzan or not. So why not give it a whirl? Just for the sake of variety if nothing else.

We could have a Magic 8-Ball behind the bench to make critical decisions. We could glue a Gulutzan-esque wig on it if that would make you more comfortable.

Not sure what you're implying, but 99% of the decisions he makes generally there is a reasonable purpose behind it. It's as if he's worked in the hockey industry before and has learned the intricacies of coaching whereas us fans who have zero professional coaching experience and only think we know.

Regardless, I've accepted the belief that the entire coaching staff could be fired and will likely be replaced by clones of the same ilk who will likely require another adjustment period. Hopefully this time around it doesn't take a month and nearly cost us another shot at the playoffs. Maybe Tre can also find some skilled players who don't require a Johnny Gaudreau on their line to produce.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Psytic

Yes I agree. Regardless of whether another coach gets much more out of these guys, the fact is they are boring to watch. I can maybe put up with boring garbage hockey if they are winning but they aren’t really much better than when Hartley was here and the entertainment value is at least half. I would kill for a different system just to be entertined let alone getting different results.

Of all the insignificant criticisms and trivial points that I've heard in this thread that I either disagree or think is completely made up. This claim is actually legitimate. Gulutzan's brand of hockey isn't the most entertaining style and with out Gaudreau's naturally electrifying ability, it would be worse.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Not sure what you're implying, but 99% of the decisions he makes generally there is a reasonable purpose behind it. It's as if he's worked in the hockey industry before and has learned the intricacies of coaching whereas us fans who have zero professional coaching experience and only think we know.

Regardless, I've accepted the belief that the entire coaching staff could be fired and will likely be replaced by clones of the same ilk who will likely require another adjustment period. Hopefully this time around it doesn't take a month and nearly cost us another shot at the playoffs. Maybe Tre can also find some skilled players who don't require a Johnny Gaudreau on their line to produce.

So he knows what hes doing because hes an experienced NHL coach, but it doesnt matter because nameless, faceless clones could do the exact same job with the exact same results.

I dont know what the 'One Month' is supposed to mean because GG is rapidly closing in on two full seasons. If the team cant grasp his beloved system after 2 years then maybe its just too complicated or maybe the system itself is just total crap.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Of all the insignificant criticisms and trivial points that I've heard in this thread that I either disagree or think is completely made up. This claim is actually legitimate. Gulutzan's brand of hockey isn't the most entertaining style and with out Gaudreau's naturally electrifying ability, it would be worse.

You and I finally agree on something.

The system GG uses is to move as a 5 man unit methodically up the ice. Thank god for Johnny being transcendent and going above the system

[H2SO4(aq)]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Of all the insignificant criticisms and trivial points that I've heard in this thread that I either disagree or think is completely made up. This claim is actually legitimate. Gulutzan's brand of hockey isn't the most entertaining style and with out Gaudreau's naturally electrifying ability, it would be worse.

Without gaudreau there would be almost nothing to watch. Maybe the odd “chucky pissing people off” gambit but that’s about it.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Of all the insignificant criticisms and trivial points that I've heard in this thread that I either disagree or think is completely made up. This claim is actually legitimate. Gulutzan's brand of hockey isn't the most entertaining style and with out Gaudreau's naturally electrifying ability, it would be worse.

This I will agree with.

It seems that Gulutzan wants to play the super-safe brand of hockey. Which is boring.

Furthermore, its slow. He would probably prefer to call it 'possession-based' hockey but what it really amounts to is: waiting.

You wonder why our powerplay entry sucks? Because its slow.

Possession is all well and good, but if you arent moving the puck quickly it allows everyone else to get good and ready for your next, painfully predictable, move.

You mentioned Johnny. Why is he effective? Because hes fast and difficult to predict.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Pointman

I can get the point of it. Burke/Treliving have a long-term vision/Philosophy in place and Gulutzan is a type of coach that fits in with it. If a team can't perform within a set vision, roster needs to be reshaped. Doing it the other way around, I.e. creating a vision around players in place will send the wrong message, that it is the players, rather than the management, that imposes a vision and a direction.

What you just proposed is terrifying. That is the sign of true arrogance by management. If they are so set in their belief structures that are going to try and fit square pegs into round holes, this is truly a dysfunctional group and a loser organization. Placing so much faith into one individual who has no credible track record of high success, at anything he has done, seems to be a ridiculous business decision. It's the height of stupidity allowing a coach with no success to drive a star player out of town, only to come to the realization that coach is an waste of space and needed to go after all. And yes, we have watching this play out with this club before.

It takes a helluva lot more to draft and develop a player than it does to find a new coach. When you find some talent that can play the game at the NHL level, and be a star at the NHL level, you adjust the system to use their strengths. You don't mess with them and make them change their game to where they are ineffective. This is where this team is right now IMO, they are not using the talent effectively and entrusting in an individual who has shown no success in what he does. It is mind numbing to consider this team would place Gulutzan ahead of a player. WTF has Glen Gulutzan ever done to earn this latitude? This just has Marc Savard/Greg Gilbert written all over it.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

You and I finally agree on something.

The system GG uses is to move as a 5 man unit methodically up the ice. Thank god for Johnny being transcendent and going above the system

Actually Gaudreau often waits for the "5 man unit" to form before he rushes with the puck. At the same time, the opposing team gets into position.

GG is about as bright as I expected him to be.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by New Era

What you just proposed is terrifying. That is the sign of true arrogance by management. If they are so set in their belief structures that are going to try and fit square pegs into round holes, this is truly a dysfunctional group and a loser organization. Placing so much faith into one individual who has no credible track record of high success, at anything he has done, seems to be a ridiculous business decision. It's the height of stupidity allowing a coach with no success to drive a star player out of town, only to come to the realization that coach is an waste of space and needed to go after all. And yes, we have watching this play out with this club before.

It takes a helluva lot more to draft and develop a player than it does to find a new coach. When you find some talent that can play the game at the NHL level, and be a star at the NHL level, you adjust the system to use their strengths. You don't mess with them and make them change their game to where they are ineffective. This is where this team is right now IMO, they are not using the talent effectively and entrusting in an individual who has shown no success in what he does. It is mind numbing to consider this team would place Gulutzan ahead of a player. WTF has Glen Gulutzan ever done to earn this latitude? This just has Marc Savard/Greg Gilbert written all over it.

I really hope you’re wrong about the Marc savard thing...

But you are absolutely right and the system needs to be flexible to suit the players. Let’s face it. It is easier to replace a coach than to replace your key players and that’s what probably needs to happen

[djsFlames]

If Burke/Treliving would rather gut the roster before putting in an established coach with a history of success to see what the current crop of guys can actually amount to, then they should be shown the door tbh.

The exception is if you can make a couple clear cut upgrades at key positions. Even then, it's still a waste if you don't get some expertise behind the bench.

[TheKurgan]

Regardless of it we make the playoffs or not Gulutzan and the rest of the coaching staff need to go. Bad specialty teams, inconsistent effort, poor defensive zone play, inability to deal with any in game adversity, poor player usage, etc… All of this points to a need for a coaching change. Either the players aren’t buying in or the system just doesn’t work.

I think if we can get a new coaching staff, let older UFA’s like Stajan, Versteeg, Stewart, Shore, and Glass walk, inject the bottom six with youth and trade one of Stone or Brodie + for a real top 6 winger we might have chance next year.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by TheKurgan

Regardless of it we make the playoffs or not Gulutzan and the rest of the coaching staff need to go. Bad specialty teams, inconsistent effort, poor defensive zone play, inability to deal with any in game adversity, poor player usage, etc… All of this points to a need for a coaching change. Either the players aren’t buying in or the system just doesn’t work.

I think if we can get a new coaching staff, let older UFA’s like Stajan, Versteeg, Stewart, Shore, and Glass walk, inject the bottom six with youth and trade one of Stone or Brodie + for a real top 6 winger we might have chance next year.

Nick Shore is 25 and an upcoming RFA. He currently makes $925K and isn't likely to get a huge raise. Maybe we should see how he performs before cutting him loose. I fully expect none of the upcoming UFAs will be re-signed.

[Gaskal]

Relax. I think Friedman is way off the mark here.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by TheKurgan

Regardless of it we make the playoffs or not Gulutzan and the rest of the coaching staff need to go. Bad specialty teams, inconsistent effort, poor defensive zone play, inability to deal with any in game adversity, poor player usage, etc… All of this points to a need for a coaching change. Either the players aren’t buying in or the system just doesn’t work.

I think if we can get a new coaching staff, let older UFA’s like Stajan, Versteeg, Stewart, Shore, and Glass walk, inject the bottom six with youth and trade one of Stone or Brodie + for a real top 6 winger we might have chance next year.

Consistently unprepared to play. Unprepared against other teams. Unprepared in general.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Regardless, I've accepted the belief that the entire coaching staff could be fired and will likely be replaced by clones of the same ilk who will likely require another adjustment period. Hopefully this time around it doesn't take a month and nearly cost us another shot at the playoffs. Maybe Tre can also find some skilled players who don't require a Johnny Gaudreau on their line to produce.

You keep posting this. If they are going to hire a clone of GG, why would the team require an adjustment period? If it's the same brand of crap hockey, the Flames will already have two full seasons of playing it.

Gulutzan should go because it's the first logical move to make. If the team doesn't improve with a different coach, gut the roster again. Then it's a question of letting Treliving do it vs. a different GM.

I will rejoice when this team dumps Gulutzan.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

Relax. I think Friedman is way off the mark here.

Yep. Treliving is not “blowing it up” after believing they were entering some period of contention.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Locke

So he knows what hes doing because hes an experienced NHL coach, but it doesnt matter because nameless, faceless clones could do the exact same job with the exact same results.

I dont know what the 'One Month' is supposed to mean because GG is rapidly closing in on two full seasons. If the team cant grasp his beloved system after 2 years then maybe its just too complicated or maybe the system itself is just total crap.

Well I'd prefer to not have another start like 2016 where we went 5-10-1 because of a new coach. We almost missed the playoffs that season because of that poor start.

I also disagree with the notion that the players didn't grasp the season because after a horrid 5-10-1 start, the team went 40-23-3 afterwards to comfortably make the playoffs. Also not losing in regulation after 50+ games is also pretty damn impressive and appears pretty mentally tough to me.

This season they've underachieved and it may cost the coach his job. But obviously my concern would be mainly that the team takes a step back or we start off terribly again which could easily happen.

[Shazam]

Teams have been adapting to the Flames' strategies. Although perhaps I should say strategy. It hasn't helped that Rittich suddenly forgot when the games start.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

You and I finally agree on something.

The system GG uses is to move as a 5 man unit methodically up the ice. Thank god for Johnny being transcendent and going above the system

I still don't understand this criticism of moving up as a 5 man unit though? We're not a fast team and only one player has the ability to beat defenders up the ice. It's generally a smart idea to move up the ice with an organized break out with short passes and additional support rather then to have a disorganized and chaotic break out and long bomb passes that just leads to turnovers.

I also don't understand why 1 line or 1 player like Johnny has the freedom to transcend Gulutzan's orders and then to deny everyone else. Makes zero sense and isn't true. It sounds very made up to frame your opinion.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I still don't understand this criticism of moving up as a 5 man unit though? We're not a fast team and only one player has the ability to beat defenders up the ice. It's generally a smart idea to move up the ice with an organized break out with short passes and additional support rather then to have a disorganized and chaotic break out and long bomb passes that just leads to turnovers.

I also don't understand why 1 line or 1 player like Johnny has the freedom to transcend Gulutzan's orders and then to deny everyone else. Makes zero sense and isn't true. It sounds very made up to frame your opinion.

The 5 man unit doesn’t work because in GGs system we reverse the puck from d to d where other teams who play a fast transitions game just move it forwards.

This is where the whole 5man unit fails because it allows the other team to set up defensively. It’s defijitely, like you said a more organized break out but the issue is that other teams know what we’re doing and can counteract it.

Boston, Tampa and Vegas make that d to d pass much less frequently and move the puck north south much quicker than we do.