People who were told they were being Prayed for did worse. - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

jolinar of malkshor · 11-29-2006, 09:45 AM

In an attempt to nail down the question of whether prayer really can heal, six hospitals had strangers say prayers for 1,800 coronary-bypass patients and then studied the postoperative complications. Patients who were told they might or might not be prayed for had roughly the same complication rate, whatever their prayer status turned out to be. But those who were told for certain that they were in someone's prayers actually did worse. The doctors' tentative explanation: people who knew they were being prayed for might have thought they were sicker than they realized, which could have made their outcomes worse. But anyone tempted to think this study disproves the power of prayer should think again. The doctors and clergy who ran the study had no control over whether friends and family were also praying for the patients--and they certainly couldn't have forbidden personal prayers even if they knew about them. Beyond that, the prayers said by strangers were provided by the clergy and were all identical. Maybe that prevented them from being truly heartfelt. In short, the possible confounding factors in this study made it extraordinarily limited.

Please....no one pray for me if i am sick.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...2958-7,00.html

Cheese · 11-29-2006, 10:08 AM

strange that those who belive in "Gods work" would pray for help...to Doctors using science as an aid to their loved ones.

FireFly · 11-29-2006, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheese

strange that those who belive in "Gods work" would pray for help...to Doctors using science as an aid to their loved ones.

I don't think they pray to the Doctors, I think they ask the doctors for help, and pray to God for a miracle. There's nothing that says we can't use knowledge to improve our lives. That includes scientific knowledge.

FireFly · 11-29-2006, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fotze

Maybe this proves that god is hindu and not christian, they have to do the study in all religions to filter out the right one.

Also, are they certain that all the patients are Christian? Because if I believed in a different God, then I'd likely do worse knowing that someone was praying to a false God in my name...

photon · 11-29-2006, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Please....no one pray for me if i am sick.

Or just don't tell me.

jolinar of malkshor · 11-29-2006, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by photon

Or just don't tell me.

True...ya that works. Have both bases covered then.

bluejays · 11-29-2006, 10:46 AM

It's not disproving the old study of prayer actually helping. In the other study, patients weren't actually told they were being prayed for, while this one did. I'd tend to think the old one was more interesting. This one is more of a psychological study than anything else.

fredr123 · 11-29-2006, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Please....no one pray for me if i am sick.

What if I pray for you to get sick?

jolinar of malkshor · 11-29-2006, 10:52 AM

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Originally Posted by fredr123

What if I pray for you to get sick?

I hope you slip on your icy sidewalk.

photon · 11-29-2006, 11:29 AM

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Originally Posted by fleury

It's not disproving the old study of prayer actually helping. In the other study, patients weren't actually told they were being prayed for, while this one did. I'd tend to think the old one was more interesting. This one is more of a psychological study than anything else.

Actually this one most of the participants were told they may or may not be receiving prayer. The group that was told explicitly was the group that measured the psychological impact.

What study that says prayer helps are you referring to?

Flames_Gimp · 11-29-2006, 11:56 AM

I was constipated once and this freak roommate said she prayed for me, said jesus was breaking it up for me... i told her "what, jesus flew up my ass"?

prayer is pretty much Bull****

bluejays · 11-29-2006, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by photon

Actually this one most of the participants were told they may or may not be receiving prayer. The group that was told explicitly was the group that measured the psychological impact.

What study that says prayer helps are you referring to?

A few years back (I'm a bit lazy to look it up, but I'm pretty sure it was a University study), divided a group of individuals up into two (don't think it was as large of a sample as the one above, but it was quite substantial IIRC), and the study concluded that the patients who were prayed for did something like twice better than those not prayed for. The patients did not know they were being prayed for though. It was an interesting read.

AC · 11-29-2006, 08:08 PM

This topic is mentioned and discussed in Richard Dawkins' latest book The God Delusion.

A very good read for those interested in atheistic beliefs.

AC · 11-29-2006, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fleury

A few years back (I'm a bit lazy to look it up, but I'm pretty sure it was a University study), divided a group of individuals up into two and the study concluded that the patients who were prayed for did something like twice better than those not prayed for.

I question the validity of this claim, I'd be interested in reading a report on this experiment if you can find it.

Weiser Wonder · 11-29-2006, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

I was constipated once and this freak roommate said she prayed for me, said jesus was breaking it up for me... i told her "what, jesus flew up my ass"?

prayer is pretty much Bull****

LOL.

I pray as I am vaguely Christian but I don't ask for miracles I ask for strength and compassion for all involved. I think prayer is mostly theraputic because it helps the person praying think of others and helps people develop strength within themselves. It's pretty ridiculous to think that God makes people better because somebody prays for them. There are thousands of people without anyone to pray for them, I think God should cover those people first.

Phaneuf3 · 11-29-2006, 10:29 PM

i want to read more on this study... sounds pretty interesting.
i'd like to know their sample sizes and such and how they were broken up.

photon · 11-29-2006, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fleury

A few years back (I'm a bit lazy to look it up, but I'm pretty sure it was a University study), divided a group of individuals up into two (don't think it was as large of a sample as the one above, but it was quite substantial IIRC), and the study concluded that the patients who were prayed for did something like twice better than those not prayed for. The patients did not know they were being prayed for though. It was an interesting read.

There was one from 2001 where 3 Columbia University researches did a test where prayer for women undergoing in-vitro ferilization resulted in a pregnancy rate of 50%, double that of women who did not receive prayer. That was pretty well covered back then. However the study was found to not only have numerous methodological errors, but one of the study's authors lied about his M.D. and has been indicted on felony charges for mail fraud and theft. Eventually the Journal of Reproductive Medicine removed the study from their site and the University is launching an investigation.

AC · 12-01-2006, 01:25 AM

As this is an old article, I didn't think it warranted a new thread, but thought it was interesting in the same regards as the article in the original post.

Societies worse off 'when they have God on their side'
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...798944,00.html

Cowperson · 12-02-2006, 10:09 AM

HOW WOULD you like your doctor, at your next examination, to ask not only about your diet and symptoms but about your spiritual life?

How would you like your surgeon to ask, while you're on the gurney ready to be wheeled in for an operation, if you'd mind if he says a quick prayer?
Or if he suggested that perhaps you should?

A concerted effort is underway to make religious practices part of clinical medicine. About two-thirds of U.S. medical schools now offer some form of training on the role of religion and spirituality in medicine, according to Dr. Harold Koenig of Duke University.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...ome-commentary

Cowperson

jolinar of malkshor · 12-02-2006, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowperson

HOW WOULD you like your doctor, at your next examination, to ask not only about your diet and symptoms but about your spiritual life?

How would you like your surgeon to ask, while you're on the gurney ready to be wheeled in for an operation, if you'd mind if he says a quick prayer?
Or if he suggested that perhaps you should?

A concerted effort is underway to make religious practices part of clinical medicine. About two-thirds of U.S. medical schools now offer some form of training on the role of religion and spirituality in medicine, according to Dr. Harold Koenig of Duke University.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...ome-commentary

Cowperson

I guess these guys didn't see this study. They might want to rethink.