2017/2018 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Are you okay with adding Pacioretty for 2 playoff runs and lose him for nothing? Are you prepared to have him on the cap for 6.5-7.5M for 5-8 years?

If the answer is no to both of those questions then you don’t trade Bennett for Pacioretty.

I am a believer in Bennett if we hold on to him. If both he and the org are ready to move on for a fresh start then we should be targeting young players in return. By young players I mean 25 and under.

I'm ok with option 1, but as I said above I think it's because I fundamentally don't see the value in Bennett and his potential that some of you all do. And personally I think we could get him cheaper on the next contract depending on how his role has changed with our team and how he performs. His contract right now is also low enough to potentially allow us to add even more next year for a longer playoff push if the team shows it is good enough.

[Nelson]

Yeah. I'm referring to the deadline as a whole, not to any Bennett move. In this context, sunken cost fallacy says to me that we shouldn't buy just to make the playoffs just because we traded a non-lottery-protected 1st round pick for Hamonic.

I'm just advocating a minor sale approach to the deadline because I believe the best way to build a team is by drafting lots of skill and speed and patiently allowing for development.

The Jets have long been a very impressive drafter and I've looked on with jealousy. Here is the list of draft picks I am very impressed with:
Schieffele (7th)
Trouba (9th)
Helleybuyck (130th)
Lowry (67th)
Morrissey (13th)
Petan (43rd)
Comrie (59th)
Lipon (91st)
Copp (104th)
Ehlers (9th)
De Leo (99th)
Connor (17th)
Roslovic (25th)
Harkins (47th)
Laine (2nd).

To me, that list is much more impressive than the Flames' list of impressive draftees. I think its because they make good use of their picks, but also because they have an overall patient draft and develop strategy, which means picking lots.

It's certainly true that Ehlers has not been a bust and they've acquired good players by trade.

Also, I'm not saying the Flames haven't also done some good drafting recently.

I'm just saying that, at this deadline, they should take a strategy, which emphasizes a patient draft and develop approach.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I'm ok with option 1, but as I said above I think it's because I fundamentally don't see the value in Bennett and his potential that some of you all do. And personally I think we could get him cheaper on the next contract depending on how his role has changed with our team and how he performs. His contract right now is also low enough to potentially allow us to add even more next year for a longer playoff push if the team shows it is good enough.

Problem with option 1 this team could miss the playoffs altogether so it wouldn’t gen be 2 playoff runs.

I don’t see any reason for an American born player from the east to take less than market to play in a small western Canadian market he was just traded to less than a year before. I assume Pacioretty will want to cash in. If he can’t play RW he is a 3rd liner in Calgary.

I get your take though. Bennett is virtually worthless so if we get someone good for him you do it.

I am of the opinion that Bennett still has ample room and time to improve at the young age of 21 despite the fact he has been playing in the NHL for 3 years

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Nelson

Yeah. I'm referring to the deadline as a whole, not to any Bennett move. In this context, sunken cost fallacy says to me that we shouldn't buy just to make the playoffs just because we traded a non-lottery-protected 1st round pick for Hamonic.

I'm just advocating a minor sale approach to the deadline because I believe the best way to build a team is by drafting lots of skill and speed and patiently allowing for development.

The Jets have long been a very impressive drafter and I've looked on with jealousy. Here is the list of draft picks I am very impressed with:
Schieffele (7th)
Trouba (9th)
Helleybuyck (130th)
Lowry (67th)
Morrissey (13th)
Petan (43rd)
Comrie (59th)
Lipon (91st)
Copp (104th)
Ehlers (9th)
De Leo (99th)
Connor (17th)
Roslovic (25th)
Harkins (47th)
Laine (2nd).

To me, that list is much more impressive than the Flames' list of impressive draftees. I think its because they make good use of their picks, but also because they have an overall patient draft and develop strategy, which means picking lots.

It's certainly true that Ehlers has not been a bust and they've acquired good players by trade.

Also, I'm not saying the Flames haven't also done some good drafting recently.

I'm just saying that, at this deadline, they should take a strategy, which emphasizes a patient draft and develop approach.

Fair bit of no name guys on that Jets list.

I think the key for them is hitting on their first rounders. Schieifele, Trouba, Morrissey, Ehlers, Connor, Laine are 6 straight first rounders thst are at or exceeding expectations. Literally 4 top 6 forwards and 2 top 4 D

Flames later rounds in recent years looks impressive

Gaudreau- 11 (Granlund/Sven NHLers)
Kulak, Gillies, Jankowski -12
Monahan -13
Bennett- 14
Andersson, Kylington, Mangiapane -15
Tkachuk, Dube, Parsons, Philipps 16

[cannon7]

Flames should be selling/reconfiguring. If they're buying, they're just further crippling the franchise.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Nelson

Yeah. I'm referring to the deadline as a whole, not to any Bennett move. In this context, sunken cost fallacy says to me that we shouldn't buy just to make the playoffs just because we traded a non-lottery-protected 1st round pick for Hamonic.

I'm just advocating a minor sale approach to the deadline because I believe the best way to build a team is by drafting lots of skill and speed and patiently allowing for development.

The Jets have long been a very impressive drafter and I've looked on with jealousy. Here is the list of draft picks I am very impressed with:
Schieffele (7th)
Trouba (9th)
Helleybuyck (130th)
Lowry (67th)
Morrissey (13th)
Petan (43rd)
Comrie (59th)
Lipon (91st)
Copp (104th)
Ehlers (9th)
De Leo (99th)
Connor (17th)
Roslovic (25th)
Harkins (47th)
Laine (2nd).

To me, that list is much more impressive than the Flames' list of impressive draftees. I think its because they make good use of their picks, but also because they have an overall patient draft and develop strategy, which means picking lots.

It's certainly true that Ehlers has not been a bust and they've acquired good players by trade.

Also, I'm not saying the Flames haven't also done some good drafting recently.

I'm just saying that, at this deadline, they should take a strategy, which emphasizes a patient draft and develop approach.

Their franchise has also never won a playoff game

[Nelson]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Fair bit of no name guys on that Jets list.

I think the key for them is hitting on their first rounders. Schieifele, Trouba, Morrissey, Ehlers, Connor, Laine are 6 straight first rounders thst are at or exceeding expectations. Literally 4 top 6 forwards and 2 top 4 D

Flames later rounds in recent years looks impressive

Gaudreau- 11 (Granlund/Sven NHLers)
Kulak, Gillies, Jankowski -12
Monahan -13
Bennett- 14
Andersson, Kylington, Mangiapane -15
Tkachuk, Dube, Parsons, Philipps 16

Yeah, that's true. The Flames have drafted well. I just hope the team allows itself to continue by adding some more picks at the draft and not selling its best prospects for rentals or band-aids. Draft and develop.

I also think that sometimes knowing a prospect makes me think higher of them than prospects in another organization who I don't know, even if the prospects are actually comparable. I'm not saying this is the case in your situation; you may know them all very well. I just think I do this sometimes.

[Nelson]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Their franchise has also never won a playoff game

But I think they will this year! They had to be patient as they waited for Helleybuyck or Comrie to develop, but now that Helleybuyck has, I think they are legitimate contenders to come out of the West.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Nelson

But I think they will this year! They had to be patient as they waited for Helleybuyck or Comrie to develop, but now that Helleybuyck has, I think they are legitimate contenders to come out of the West.

Sure, they probably will win a playoff game at least...fact remains they have been in the league for almost 20 years and haven't won a playoff game

Not sure how patient they were they just had no choice. They have had some pretty high picks missing the playoffs every year and made some pretty good choices of late. Certainly not a model franchise IMO.

[IgiTang]

Posted this in the Vetrano trade thread but I think posting it here is more "apropos"...

RE:Ferland-

Honestly, if the Flames came out now and said they are listening to offers on Ferland, there would be a MASSIVE bidding war where I feel the flames make out like bandits.

Doesnt mean I support trading Ferland... but man, I could see him being one of the most coveted pieces at this years deadline.

He is the epitome of Jack of all trades, master of none and players fear him. He can play up and down a lineup. He can be the setup man, the trigger man, the crash and banger and the sheriff all in one game. Only question mark is consistency. Teams are willing to gamble on that I think based on what he has shown thus far.

[rotten42]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

Posted this in the Vetrano trade thread but I think posting it here is more "apropos"...

RE:Ferland-

Honestly, if the Flames came out now and said they are listening to offers on Ferland, there would be a MASSIVE bidding war where I feel the flames make out like bandits.

Doesnt mean I support trading Ferland... but man, I could see him being one of the most coveted pieces at this years deadline.

He is the epitome of Jack of all trades, master of none and players fear him. He can play up and down a lineup. He can be the setup man, the trigger man, the crash and banger and the sheriff all in one game. Only question mark is consistency. Teams are willing to gamble on that I think based on what he has shown thus far.

"CAN" is not the same as "DOES". No consistency in his game.

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by rotten42

"CAN" is not the same as "DOES". No consistency in his game.

Care to elaborate on "CAN" and "DOES" in context to Ferland?

No consistency in his game? That there is consistency in itself...

You're going to need to come up with more here or your post just looks like a poorly thought out drive-by posting in attempt to be argumentative or trolling is what you young-ins like to call it these days.

[Poe969]

If the Flames get a good offer on Ferland they should take it. Ferland has the skill to play on a top line and is feisty enough to play on the fourth line the only problem is that he's also bad enough to play in the AHL. I believe that last night he probably killed more plays than anything else. You can never tell how he'll play, if he isn't scoring he should be mucking it up but he doesn't. You can't depend on him for anything and that's not good. If he showed effort in every game he'd be good but he just doesn't show up to some games and it's frustrating as heck. Maybe a playoff team will want him to spark their team and might over pay for him, if that's the case they should trade him.

[442scotty]

Anyone can be and should be available for the right price ... Note I said the right price...

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Fair bit of no name guys on that Jets list.

I think the key for them is hitting on their first rounders. Schieifele, Trouba, Morrissey, Ehlers, Connor, Laine are 6 straight first rounders thst are at or exceeding expectations. Literally 4 top 6 forwards and 2 top 4 D

Flames later rounds in recent years looks impressive

Gaudreau- 11 (Granlund/Sven NHLers)
Kulak, Gillies, Jankowski -12
Monahan -13
Bennett- 14
Andersson, Kylington, Mangiapane -15
Tkachuk, Dube, Parsons, Philipps 16

Also their team has been drafting from a high position going back to Atlanta, but even just looking at when they moved to Winnipeg in 2011, they’ve only had two picks outside of the top 10 (13th in ‘13, 17th in 2015) up until the last draft where there was lots of moving around in the first because of the expansion draft. Meanwhile we started drafting high in 2013... and also traded away our 2015 first rounder to aquire Dougie...(which I think was a good move). Bennett is currently our only real miss since 2013, and he’s still got a chance to recoup that value if he can figure this #### out.

Point being- we are way ahead of where Winnipeg was at, at this respective time in their rebuild.

Also Tkachuk is a better overall player than Laine. Ya I said it

[browna]

If Ferland's not being an effective trigger man, he doesn't bring a lot that isn't already on the lower half of the forward roster.

His crash and bang game in the VAN series was 3 years ago, and he's not (nor anyone really) is able to play that game all season. His defensive game is good not great, he's prone to lapses in judgements when he doesn't have that confidence going. He flailed the next year after the Van series, and a big part of last year until he caught fire late January-ish along with guys like Elliott, and again had long stretches (the beginning, and now, pretty much all of the last month) where he's not being the linemate that JG needs to convert the chances that JG and SM provides directly or indirectly.

And if he's not scoring, he's not really hitting to any great dregree game in and game out, and somewhat fades into the jumbled pile of bottom 5 forwards that this team has.

Hopefully the wake up of having Hathway play multiple shifts with the top line while he goes down to the third/fourth line (another issue...who else besides MT can step into that role on the current healthy roster?) gives him a kick in the butt for tonight and he gets on another hot streak, because when he's on, he's on, no question.

[Sutter_in_law]

Originally Posted by 442scotty

Anyone can be and should be available for the right price ... Note I said the right price...

Carey?

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by browna

If Ferland's not being an effective trigger man, he doesn't bring a lot that isn't already on the lower half of the forward roster.

His crash and bang game in the VAN series was 3 years ago, and he's not (nor anyone really) is able to play that game all season. His defensive game is good not great, he's prone to lapses in judgements when he doesn't have that confidence going. He flailed the next year after the Van series, and a big part of last year until he caught fire late January-ish along with guys like Elliott, and again had long stretches (the beginning, and now, pretty much all of the last month) where he's not being the linemate that JG needs to convert the chances that JG and SM provides directly or indirectly.

And if he's not scoring, he's not really hitting to any great dregree game in and game out, and somewhat fades into the jumbled pile of bottom 5 forwards that this team has.

Hopefully the wake up of having Hathway play multiple shifts with the top line while he goes down to the third/fourth line (another issue...who else besides MT can step into that role on the current healthy roster?) gives him a kick in the butt for tonight and he gets on another hot streak, because when he's on, he's on, no question.

The flames have this one really skilled fast kid playing on the third line wing who could easily convert to RW who might be worth a look if Ferland continues to fail

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

The flames have this one really skilled fast kid playing on the third line wing who could easily convert to RW who might be worth a look if Ferland continues to fail

Lazar got some shifts on the third line last game?

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Lazar got some shifts on the third line last game?

I mean that couldn't be any worse than Hathaway on line 1.


I honestly shake my head at this coaching staff refusing to try Bennett on the top RW position especially with ferkland playing so poorly...

I mean Brouwer is healthy now so if anyone moves up again it'll be him