[PGT] Flames lose 2-1 in OT to Bruins

[kukkudo]

Originally Posted by Royle9

Dave Cameron on why the flames home record is seemingly so bad per the fan960 this morning:

"I'm not sure, if I knew the answer to that I'd be a millionaire"

That's the kind of answer I like to see from our special teams coach who took 3/4 of the season before rolling lines that actually made sense and got us a few goals in the last week.

Expected from him. Dude was a dud in Ottawa and he brought the same crap here.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

Expected from him. Dude was a dud in Ottawa and he brought the same crap here.

And yet its been allowed to go on all season, with Glue Gun defending the special teams all season long. Ultimately is what hurts the most for me this year its straight up wrong on so many levels and can specifically be pinpointed as the sole reason should we miss the playoffs.

[Ashasx]

I'm still waiting for something in this team to click. The inconsistency is unreal.

This used to be a team that could never win on the road, now it can never win at home. 90% of the time the other team is more prepared to start the game, and 90% of the time the other team is better to finish the game.

It's hard to watch.

[activeStick]

Nice to see Rittich bounce back after the Florida game. Big point yesterday.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I'm still waiting for something in this team to click. The inconsistency is unreal.

This used to be a team that could never win on the road, now it can never win at home. 90% of the time the other team is more prepared to start the game, and 90% of the time the other team is better to finish the game.

It's hard to watch.

Oilers consistently suck. That's their identity.

Flames are inconsistent. That's their identity.

Until the culture of the team improves and there's coaches and players that are in sync to be a strong team that can get the job done consistently, they will stay as an inconsistent team for the remainder of the season, and future seasons.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

I think blaming it on the coaching staff is unfair. Like them or not, they are not the ones making idiotic puck plays leading to turnovers and goals. The only thing you can pin on them in this case would be continuing to use him in pivotal moments when he has shown time and time again the same penchant for wilting.

Actually this could be 100% on coaching. It's possible that the players make these bad plays because they are asked to make certain passes. The Frolik pass few games ago was a perfect example of it. GG commented on how that's a new way of breaking out. In fairness he did say that he was going to ask the guys not to do it again, but somehow Frolik made the same play yesterday. He was coached to do that for 2 seasons.

Ever wonder why on the PP the players seem to not be ready to shoot or the passes and up on their backheands or in the skates? They are out of position. They have non shooters at the top of the circles etc. This is all on coaches.

Our 2 best shooters didn't play on the top PP until game 50.
That's on coaches.

We make a rediculous amount of d to d passes in our zone. Gee, wonder why the turnovers?

This team plays dumb hockey. They have to work extra hard for every chance they get because of how they are asked to play.
Sure, according to fancy stats they outchance teams, but somehow they can't score. Other teams make it seem so easy. Maybe their players aren't asked to play against the grain.

Coaching can have a huge effect on the team. Don't give GG a pass. Making more trades is not going to fix this team. This team needs a better game plan.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

What Boston’s retooling really shows me is that the Flames have a lot of time to get this thing figured out in upcoming seasons. They just retooled around their core of Bergeron (32), Marchand (30), Chara (40!), Krejci (31), And Raask (31). Compare that to our core of Gaudreau (24), Monahan (23), Hamilton (24), Tkachuk (20).... well basically we have a lot of time on our side. The big thing is finding a goalie to go along with that core (hopefully Rittich is the real deal!) and then adding good support. If one of Bennett or jankowski could break out it’d make a big difference I think. This team certainly needs to make the next step but everyone talking about this 3 year window... I don’t get it personally. Or acting like whatever results we get this season are absolutely indicative of what this group of players can do.

I'm actually quite shocked how well Chara is playing for his age and size.
thought he'd be a broken down wreck and out of the league by now.
just playing very, very smart and also still bullying people with his size, I guess.

[Toonage]

nm

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I'm still waiting for something in this team to click. The inconsistency is unreal.

This used to be a team that could never win on the road, now it can never win at home. 90% of the time the other team is more prepared to start the game, and 90% of the time the other team is better to finish the game.

It's hard to watch.

Not to give Gulutzan a free pass, but the primary issue with our roster is that we lack an elite number one center like Kopitar, Bergeron, Tavares, McDavid, Malkin, Crosby, Stamkos, Matthews, Eichel, Getzlaf, Barkov, MacKinnon who can take a defensive shift and turn it into a goal at the other end... the one-man "miracle shift". Monahan's not that calibre of player and neither is Backlund.

Tkachuk and Gaudreau are very good players but play a position where doing this is almost impossible because of where they are inherently positioned defensively.

The difference isn't the corsi or even the finishing but the lack of gamebreaking transitional play. Before Gulutzan, we had phenominal outlet passers like Gio, Brodie and Wideman mitigating that reality and feeding our transition game. That's gone now. If the Flames are an inconsistent team, it's because they are one-dimensional.

[Toonage]

The way they play is on the coaching staff. How they may execute is on the players, but what they are being asked to execute is firmly on the coaches shoulders.

[DeluxeMoustache]

^ Except.... Vegas

(Responding to 2 posts up)

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

^ Except.... Vegas

(Responding to 2 posts up)

Call it a small sample size but William Karlsson has provided for Vegas exactly what I describe. Whether he can sustain that dictates whether Vegas can sustain their success.

[nemanja2306]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Sam Bennett is not a bust, no matter how many times people say it.

Your lack of patience with player development does not make a player a bust.

You know who is not a bust? Leon Drasaitl.

Lack of patience? It's been three, almost four, years since he was drafted. And hasn't shown anything to think he'll be the #1 centre the Flames drafted. Hell, he can't even play centre. He has regressed every year. He still makes some dump plays and decisions he made three years ago.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by nemanja2306

You know who is not a bust? Leon Drasaitl..

You know who looked like a clear bust before playing every waking minute of his career with Taylor Hall or Connor McDavid?

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Not to give Gulutzan a free pass, but the primary issue with our roster is that we lack an elite number one center like Kopitar, Bergeron, Tavares, McDavid, Malkin, Crosby, Stamkos, Matthews, Eichel, Getzlaf, Barkov, MacKinnon who can take a defensive shift and turn it into a goal at the other end... the one-man "miracle shift". Monahan's not that calibre of player and neither is Backlund.

Tkachuk and Gaudreau are very good players but play a position where doing this is almost impossible because of where they are inherently positioned defensively.

The difference isn't the corsi or even the finishing but the lack of gamebreaking transitional play. Before Gulutzan, we had phenominal outlet passers like Gio, Brodie and Wideman mitigating that reality and feeding our transition game. That's gone now. If the Flames are an inconsistent team, it's because they are one-dimensional.

While I agree with this somewhat, who is Nashvilles game breaking center? Vegas?

The Islanders are very inconsistent. Edmonton, Buffalo and to a lesser extent Florida are all horrible teams. So the Game breaking transitional play hasn't worked out for them... My thinking is that, yes an elite center would likely push this team over the top BUT it is not a necessity nor does it guarantee success. More than one way to skin a cat... I am starting to think Tkachuk may be the elite player we've been waiting for. He very rarely has an off-game and he seems to be getting better every game... time will tell, but I still have faith that his team is heading in the right direction and that we are still experiencing some growing pains, kinda like Winnipeg the previous couple of years.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by nemanja2306

You know who is not a bust? Leon Drasaitl.

Lack of patience? It's been three, almost four, years since he was drafted. And hasn't shown anything to think he'll be the #1 centre the Flames drafted. Hell, he can't even play centre. He has regressed every year. He still makes some dump plays and decisions he made three years ago.

You know who is utterly irrelevant when talking about Sam Bennett? Leon Draisaitl. It's not like we passed on Draisaitl to take Bennett. Draisaitl was taken the pick before.

Also, how's Draisaitl's spring looking? Golf filled. So he's failing while being in a position of importance and carrying an 8.5M dollar salary cap hit.

Yes, lack of patience. You're failing to dive into the reasons why Bennett has struggled, specifically at centre. You're completely ignoring circumstance, not to mention the history of 4th overall picks.

Hey, your expectations mean the world to you - so, I'm sorry your expectations have so negatively painted your view.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Sam Bennett is not a bust, no matter how many times people say it.

Relative to his draft position and expectations? I think it's reasonable to say that yes, he's a bust.

He could still be an impact player for this team, but that is a bust relative to the expectations of a 4th overall pick. At that spot in the draft, anything short of an All-Star considered player is a huge whiff.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Relative to his draft position and expectations? I think it's reasonable to say that yes, he's a bust.

He could still be an impact player for this team, but that is a bust relative to the expectations of a 4th overall pick. At that spot in the draft, anything short of an All-Star considered player is a huge whiff.

Then I'd say your expectations for a 4th overall pick are either founded in impatience, or disconnected from the reality of the draft position.


2016 - Jesse Puljujarvi - struggling

2015 - Mitch Marner - went back to Jr. for a full year of development, came in and put up 63 points in Draft+2 year.

2014 - Sam Bennett:
Draft+1 - Lost entire year to injury
Draft+2 - Solid rookie season while playing with good linemates as a winger
Draft+3 - Buried at centre with non-NHL quality linemates
Draft+4 - This year, showing signs of greatness peppered with inconsistency. Scoreless in first 15 games of the season, 9 of which were at centre. Has put up 21 points in 45 games since then while playing on the 2nd PP unit (3PPP), and a 3rd line role.

2013 - Seth Jones - stepped in right away, Nashville writes the book on "how to develop defencemen at the NHL level"

2012 - Griffin Reinhart - hahah, Edmonton...

2011 - Adam Larsson - it took until Draft+4 year to establish himself.

2010 - Ryan Johansen - it look until Draft +4 year to establish himself.

2009 - Evander Kane - hit 43 points in Draft+2.

2008 - Alex Pietrangelo - it took until Draft+3 year to establish himself.

2007 - Thomas Hickey - didn't establish himself until Draft+6

2006 - Nicklas Backstrom - played 1 extra year in Sweden, then came in and centred Ovechkin.

2005 - Benoit Pouliot - took until Draft+6 to really stay steady in the NHL

(I may have the Draft+1 term wrong, not sure if "draft year" means the year preceding the draft in which he was selected, or if "draft year" means the year immediately following the summer he was drafted. In my examples, Draft+1 = the year immediately following the summer they were drafted)

Looking at everything, I don't know how people can claim "bust" without acknowledging their own lack of patience/understanding of the draft postion.

[Spinach]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

(I may have the Draft+1 term wrong, not sure if "draft year" means the year preceding the draft in which he was selected, or if "draft year" means the year immediately following the summer he was drafted. In my examples, Draft+1 = the year immediately following the summer they were drafted)

Looking at everything, I don't know how anyone can claim "bust" without acknowledging their own lack of patience/understanding of the draft postion.

I'm pretty sure "draft year" refers to the season immediately preceding the draft in which a player is selected. Sam Bennett's draft year would be 2013-2014.

It's worth remembering that this season is, for all intents and purposes, his draft+3 year since the injury pretty much wiped out his draft+1 year. The guy lost a season of development, and couldn't go to the AHL upon returning. While disappointing, Bennett's development has hardly progressed under ideal circumstances.

[Monahammer]

I loathe the Monahan isn't a number 1 centre argument. Gaudreau carries the puck enough to make up for Monahan's lack of doing so, Monahan holding the puck more often might just hamper that. If we had an ROR or someone to bump Backlund down to third line centre we wouldn't have an issue at all. The real problem we have is that we really only have 2 lines that can produce on any given night, and most nights only one of those 2 actually does. Lately only the top line is producing with M. Tkachuk lugging along the 2nd. The book is out though, if you can mitigate our top line you likely beat this team.

We need to target another play driver to either prop up the third line entirely or to significantly augment the second line. Someone like ROR or Mark Stone.

Gaudreau-Monahan-Ferland -- leave as is, we know they can produce 90% of games they play.

Tkachuk-Backlund-Frolik -- perfect as a third line, but just doesn't produce offense consistently enough to be a solid 2nd line.

Bennett-Jankowski-Hathaway -- shows flashes and spurts but nowhere near consistent enough production.

You either augment line 2 with a winger (I.e. Mark Stone) to create a consistent scoring threat 2nd line, and bump frolik down to try and stabilize line 3. Or, you bring in someone like ROR and change it up completely:

Tkachuk-ROR-Jankowski/Bennett
Bennett/Jankowski-Backlund-Frolik

That would give you a really solid 2nd line that is likely to produce on most nights and still matches up great defensively, and a very sound 3rd line that can chip in occasionally. That's the type of balance we need.

It's not our top centre that's the problem, it's our depth. Sean Monahan is fantastic and we are lucky to have him.