He’s overpaid, but it’s nice to reward one of our guys for a change instead of going out and overpaying for guys like Brouwer while nickel and diming our own free agents. Backlund bleeds red (not unlike everyone else in the world, but you know what I mean), so I’m happy to see him get paid.
But... he's actually underpaid
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Second comment of a great thread. Are you kidding me? Can you go edit this or something? It’s just dumb.
Solid player. Selke nominee. Team drafted him and part of fabric of team. From another country and he wants to call Calgary home. Fair contract.
What do you want?
Just want to point out some of the crazy things floating around this thread.
No one is nominated for the Selke. The PHWA votes on who they think is the best defensive player in the league. They do so by casting a ballot with five players on it, and the scoring works on a must system. 57 players received votes for Selke. Backlund finished 4th, receiving only 310 must points. That was well behind eventual winner, Patrice Bergeron (1147 pts), and runners up Ryan Kesler (945) and Miko Koivu (752). Backlund only appeared on around 50% of ballots cast, so it was not like he was some consensus selection.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beninho
Some people obviously don’t understand that Backlund would’ve probably got 6 years for 6 mill on the open market.
What a player could get on the open market is irrelevant. The Flames have a budget, and they pay a player what they think he will bring to the team. This is where there is some difference of opinion and the variance on his worth. Backlund is being paid like a 2nd line center, which he currently is. If his production slips, or he gets passed in the pecking order, the Flames have a problem on their hands. If someone on the open market wants to over-pay a player, good for them. Let them screw up their salary structure. The Flames should continue to pay players what they think they will be worth to the hockey club over the term of the contract and not be concerned about what player X could get on the open market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flacker
What's not to like? Faceoffs, defensive zone starts, PK guru, 30-50+ points over the span of the contract. Glad we got him signed.
Faceoffs is one thing not to like. Backlund is the Flames weakest center in the faceoff dot. Coming in at 48.7% in the dot is not great, especially when you're supposed to be a defensive specialist. Zone starts don't affect your face-off abilities, and this is a purely individual measure where Backlund could improve.
His point production has be maintained in the 50 point range over the length of the contract. Any dip and Backlund will quickly become a liability and whipping boy for the fans here. Can you imagine a player scoring 30 points and getting $5M+ a season? That's like a guy scoring 25 points and getting paid $4.5M. We know how popular that guy is.
Backlund's contract should worry people. Treliving just drew a line in the sand that everyone else gets to use in negotiations. If Backlund is worth $5M+, what is Tkachuk worth? What is Ferland worth? Those two contracts just went up substantially. I'm skeptical that Backlund will be able to produce at the pace to earn the money he's being paid. I'm also concerned that this contract will be used to beat up Treliving when it comes negotiating future contracts with players that surpass Backlund in the lineup.
Don't get me wrong. I'm happy Backlund got signed. What concerns me is how long Backlund will remain a viable player and how this contract will affect others. I just don't see Backlund being a $5M+ player in two years, and I think this is going to hurt the team in the long run. I can see Backlund becoming the new Troy Brouwer or Matt Stajan in years 3-6.
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Just want to point out some of the crazy things floating around this thread.
No one is nominated for the Selke. The PHWA votes on who they think is the best defensive player in the league. They do so by casting a ballot with five players on it, and the scoring works on a must system. 57 players received votes for Selke. Backlund finished 4th, receiving only 310 must points. That was well behind eventual winner, Patrice Bergeron (1147 pts), and runners up Ryan Kesler (945) and Miko Koivu (752). Backlund only appeared on around 50% of ballots cast, so it was not like he was some consensus selection.
What a player could get on the open market is irrelevant. The Flames have a budget, and they pay a player what they think he will bring to the team. This is where there is some difference of opinion and the variance on his worth. Backlund is being paid like a 2nd line center, which he currently is. If his production slips, or he gets passed in the pecking order, the Flames have a problem on their hands. If someone on the open market wants to over-pay a player, good for them. Let them screw up their salary structure. The Flames should continue to pay players what they think they will be worth to the hockey club over the term of the contract and not be concerned about what player X could get on the open market.
Faceoffs is one thing not to like. Backlund is the Flames weakest center in the faceoff dot. Coming in at 48.7% in the dot is not great, especially when you're supposed to be a defensive specialist. Zone starts don't affect your face-off abilities, and this is a purely individual measure where Backlund could improve.
His point production has be maintained in the 50 point range over the length of the contract. Any dip and Backlund will quickly become a liability and whipping boy for the fans here. Can you imagine a player scoring 30 points and getting $5M+ a season? That's like a guy scoring 25 points and getting paid $4.5M. We know how popular that guy is.
Backlund's contract should worry people. Treliving just drew a line in the sand that everyone else gets to use in negotiations. If Backlund is worth $5M+, what is Tkachuk worth? What is Ferland worth? Those two contracts just went up substantially. I'm skeptical that Backlund will be able to produce at the pace to earn the money he's being paid. I'm also concerned that this contract will be used to beat up Treliving when it comes negotiating future contracts with players that surpass Backlund in the lineup.
Don't get me wrong. I'm happy Backlund got signed. What concerns me is how long Backlund will remain a viable player and how this contract will affect others. I just don't see Backlund being a $5M+ player in two years, and I think this is going to hurt the team in the long run. I can see Backlund becoming the new Troy Brouwer or Matt Stajan in years 3-6.
There's a ton in this post that I could respond to, but I'm gonna keep it nice and short because it's bed time for me.
The difference between Backlund and Brouwer is that they're complete polar opposites. Backlund plays the most important forward position. Brouwer doesn't. Backlund is a possession God. Brouwer is a 100lb anchor. Backlund is an absolute defensive monster. Brouwer makes a pylon look like a Selke candidate. Backlund has hovered around the 48-53 point mark the last 3 seasons. Brouwer has never come close.
In short, Backlund is currently an elite two-way player. He's among the elite of the elite defensively while providing close to 50 points a season, if not more.
He's still on pace for 48 points despite being incredibly unlucky this season by all accounts (S%, oiSH% and PDO are all the lowest they've been in 7 years) and continues to absolutely obliterate his opponents night in and night out despite being matched up against opposing teams' top lines every night and being buried in defensive zone starts.
Anyone complaining about his contract is just looking for something to complain about because his contract, by all accounts, is fantastic. 90% of the hockey world (100% of the analytics world) figured he'd get more than what he did.
The only comments in this thread should be praising Treliving and bowing to Backlund for taking a hometown discount. So many negative posters around here who are posting nonsense without any sort of evidence to back up their claims.
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The modern NHL team is built around a line that can produce offense, a line that can be used to shut down the other teams top lines, and then a secondary (backup) scoring line and a secondary (backup) shutdown line. If your team has an elite scoring line, an elite shut down line and decent secondary lines you are in a good position to compete. The fact that the Backlund line also manages to produce decent offensive numbers makes them that much more valuable (although Tkatchuk plays a big part in that). The point is that Backlund is a cornerstone for this team and the rest of the structure of the team doesn't work without him. He is probably in the top 5 players in terms of importance to the success of the team and it could be argued he is the second most important forward.
There is no doubt that he will slow down over the duration of the contract. However, I suspect he'll age well since his game relies on smarts rather than physical abilities that tend to deteriorate. Six years is a long time, yes, but it is likely his percentage of the cap in 6 years will decrease or he may choose to retire. I don't think we can project that far in the future and determine he will suck. For the next two years he's is probably underpaid a little bit.
It's great to have two really good people, mentors and teammates locked up for the long term in Giordano and Backlund.
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Yup, that was a beauty. Also love the way the crowd absolutely exploded when that puck went in. I'm looking forward to seeing more of this stuff from him over the next few years.
Favorite Backlund moment for sure!
Gaudreau's goal in the dying seconds and then Backlund's OT winner were my favorite few minutes of Flames hockey in the stands this decade.
Great signing. AAV/term is as good as you can get. What many forget is how long this negotiation went on. BT has been working on this for many months as got the lowest AAV possible. Given the current age of most of the top Selke candidates looks like that 6th year may not see a fall off.
This sets us up for a longer term deal (7-8 yrs?) with Tkachuk at a higher AAV and leaves enough room for Ferland and Bennett deals which will have higher AAV too. The 2019 offseason is setting up to be the pivotal one for contract negotiations for this organization if we want to keep this group together for the final 3 years of Gaudreau's contract.
Good Lord. Backlund only finished fourth in Selke voting? Other posters have cited contracts of the only three players in the NHL who finished above him. What a player can get on the open market actually is relevant. And Backlund signing below market rate doesn't really mess up the team's budget. Quite the opposite. Like Giordano's contract, the team will get excellent value over most of the deal. It's true, these players will be less valuable to the team in the final year of their contracts. But why focus on the final year, rather than than the entire contract? (On top of that, we know the salary cap is going to increase over the length of these deals.) The team's window to contend is right now. It's impossible to contend by letting assets like Backlund disappear for nothing. If Jankowski eventually passes Backlund on the depth chart, that's a very good problem to have.
Every contract is a risk. If Gaudreau doesn't quite recover from the next big slash to his wrists, if he loses his touch and confidence, the team's on the hook for badly allocated money. You just have to make the best deals you can at the time.
Also: Tkachuk will be a RFA. Backlund would have been a UFA. The fact that Tkachuk's earned himself a huge contract has nothing to do with the deal Backlund just signed. Tkachuk is a budding superstar who will get a gigantic offer sheet if the team can't offer him a reasonable deal. (Again, the relevance of the market.) The message this contract sends to Tkachuk is that rather than go out on July 1 and really get paid, his center is committed to the Flames, and management is committed to winning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by New Era
Just want to point out some of the crazy things floating around this thread.
No one is nominated for the Selke. The PHWA votes on who they think is the best defensive player in the league. They do so by casting a ballot with five players on it, and the scoring works on a must system. 57 players received votes for Selke. Backlund finished 4th, receiving only 310 must points. That was well behind eventual winner, Patrice Bergeron (1147 pts), and runners up Ryan Kesler (945) and Miko Koivu (752). Backlund only appeared on around 50% of ballots cast, so it was not like he was some consensus selection.
What a player could get on the open market is irrelevant. The Flames have a budget, and they pay a player what they think he will bring to the team. This is where there is some difference of opinion and the variance on his worth. Backlund is being paid like a 2nd line center, which he currently is. If his production slips, or he gets passed in the pecking order, the Flames have a problem on their hands. If someone on the open market wants to over-pay a player, good for them. Let them screw up their salary structure. The Flames should continue to pay players what they think they will be worth to the hockey club over the term of the contract and not be concerned about what player X could get on the open market.
Faceoffs is one thing not to like. Backlund is the Flames weakest center in the faceoff dot. Coming in at 48.7% in the dot is not great, especially when you're supposed to be a defensive specialist. Zone starts don't affect your face-off abilities, and this is a purely individual measure where Backlund could improve.
His point production has be maintained in the 50 point range over the length of the contract. Any dip and Backlund will quickly become a liability and whipping boy for the fans here. Can you imagine a player scoring 30 points and getting $5M+ a season? That's like a guy scoring 25 points and getting paid $4.5M. We know how popular that guy is.
Backlund's contract should worry people. Treliving just drew a line in the sand that everyone else gets to use in negotiations. If Backlund is worth $5M+, what is Tkachuk worth? What is Ferland worth? Those two contracts just went up substantially. I'm skeptical that Backlund will be able to produce at the pace to earn the money he's being paid. I'm also concerned that this contract will be used to beat up Treliving when it comes negotiating future contracts with players that surpass Backlund in the lineup.
Don't get me wrong. I'm happy Backlund got signed. What concerns me is how long Backlund will remain a viable player and how this contract will affect others. I just don't see Backlund being a $5M+ player in two years, and I think this is going to hurt the team in the long run. I can see Backlund becoming the new Troy Brouwer or Matt Stajan in years 3-6.
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The game is getting younger and quicker. That's a lot of money committed to a player on the wrong side of 30 for most of that contract. Even now, Backlund's best years are likely behind him. I like Backlund, but the term is too long.
Tell that to Giordano and Smith who are having amazing years. Backlund will be the same age when this contract expires.
Pretty much everyone in the hockey works thinks this is a good deal and many think it's a great deal. Check in to CP to see the reaction... Luke warm 😂😂😂
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Good Lord. Backlund only finished fourth in Selke voting? Other posters have cited contracts of the only three players in the NHL who finished above him. What a player can get on the open market actually is relevant. And Backlund signing below market rate doesn't really mess up the team's budget. Quite the opposite. Like Giordano's contract, the team will get excellent value over most of the deal. It's true, these players will be less valuable to the team in the final year of their contracts. But why focus on the final year, rather than than the entire contract? (On top of that, we know the salary cap is going to increase over the length of these deals.) The team's window to contend is right now. It's impossible to contend by letting assets like Backlund disappear for nothing. If Jankowski eventually passes Backlund on the depth chart, that's a very good problem to have.
Every contract is a risk. If Gaudreau doesn't quite recover from the next big slash to his wrists, if he loses his touch and confidence, the team's on the hook for badly allocated money. You just have to make the best deals you can at the time.
Also: Tkachuk will be a RFA. Backlund would have been a UFA. The fact that Tkachuk's earned himself a huge contract has nothing to do with the deal Backlund just signed. Tkachuk is a budding superstar who will get a gigantic offer sheet if the team can't offer him a reasonable deal. (Again, the relevance of the market.) The message this contract sends to Tkachuk is that rather than go out on July 1 and really get paid, his center is committed to the Flames, and management is committed to winning.
All he really did is post some facts. It's weird that this upsets people so much. The post barely talked about whether it was a good contract or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeecho
Pretty much everyone in the hockey works thinks this is a good deal and many think it's a great deal. Check in to CP to see the reaction... Luke warm ������
In what universe is the reaction on CP lukewarm? I'd say it is overwhelmingly positive with the odd person who thinks it is a bit too much money or term. Barely anyone has actually said we shouldn't have signed him at all.
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Great signing! Contracts is where the Treliving wizard shines. My own theory is, he has a team of private eyes digging up dirt on players and then uses it against them come contract time. That, or he kidnaps a loved one. Maybe that's why we see Backlund's girlfriend at the signing?
__________________
The Delhi police have announced the formation of a crack team dedicated to nabbing the elusive 'Monkey Man' and offered a reward for his -- or its -- capture.
There's a ton in this post that I could respond to, but I'm gonna keep it nice and short because it's bed time for me.
The difference between Backlund and Brouwer is that they're complete polar opposites. Backlund plays the most important forward position. Brouwer doesn't. Backlund is a possession God. Brouwer is a 100lb anchor. Backlund is an absolute defensive monster. Brouwer makes a pylon look like a Selke candidate. Backlund has hovered around the 48-53 point mark the last 3 seasons. Brouwer has never come close.
In short, Backlund is currently an elite two-way player. He's among the elite of the elite defensively while providing close to 50 points a season, if not more.
He's still on pace for 48 points despite being incredibly unlucky this season by all accounts (S%, oiSH% and PDO are all the lowest they've been in 7 years) and continues to absolutely obliterate his opponents night in and night out despite being matched up against opposing teams' top lines every night and being buried in defensive zone starts.
Anyone complaining about his contract is just looking for something to complain about because his contract, by all accounts, is fantastic. 90% of the hockey world (100% of the analytics world) figured he'd get more than what he did.
The only comments in this thread should be praising Treliving and bowing to Backlund for taking a hometown discount. So many negative posters around here who are posting nonsense without any sort of evidence to back up their claims.
While most posters won't like it ,"New era" post had facts and well thought opinions. Your rebutal post was basically how much you think Brouwer sucks. It also only covered how good Backlund is now and nothing about what he might be like in 6 years.
Basically new era had a good post and yours was crap.
its perplexing to me that people keep saying Backlund is 'overpaid', when all the NHL comparable say the exact opposite
Quote:
— Kyle Turris, six years, $36 million, $6-million cap hit
— Brandon Dubinsky: six years, $35.1 million, $5.85-million cap hit
— Bo Horvat: six years, $33 million, $5.5-million cap hit
— Nick Foligno: six years, $33 million, $5.5-million cap hit
— Frans Nielsen: six years, $31.5 million, $5.25-million cap hit
— Bryan Little: six years, $31.746 million, $5.291-million cap hit
— Artem Anisimov: five years, $22.75 million, $4.55-million cap hit
— Brandon Sutter: five years, $21.875 million, $4.375-million cap hit
also note, these contracts were signed in the years before backlund, so they were a higher % of the cap as well at the time they signed the contracts
There's not many guys on that list i'd rather have than Backlund, and considering the fact that all teams need a shutdown center, Calgary did well to keep him away from UFA status.
Was it a 'homerun' contract for the organization? No, but is a good signing that is getting universal praise...
As for the possibility of decline, that happens with every single contract signed, but there's nothing to say they can't trade him either, even with a modified NTC in his last 3 years
Last edited by Textcritic; 02-17-2018 at 09:56 AM.
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There's a ton in this post that I could respond to, but I'm gonna keep it nice and short because it's bed time for me.
I really wish you would have spent some time to put together a thoughtful post. I'll say it was because you were tired.
Quote:
The difference between Backlund and Brouwer is that they're complete polar opposites. Backlund plays the most important forward position. Brouwer doesn't. Backlund is a possession God. Brouwer is a 100lb anchor. Backlund is an absolute defensive monster. Brouwer makes a pylon look like a Selke candidate. Backlund has hovered around the 48-53 point mark the last 3 seasons. Brouwer has never come close.
Okay, you completely missed the point. There is no doubt that Backlund is a better player RIGHT NOW. But what happens if Backlund takes the step backward that comes with age? What happens when Tkachuk moves on to another line where his skills may be better used? If Backlund falls back to a 30 point player like some have suggested, this is a boat anchor of a contract. Lets not kid ourselves here. Treliving just gave a $5M+ contract, for six seasons, to a guy who has 10 goals on the season. If that is the new standard, this team is in for a world of hurt. Backlund needs to be a 20G, 50P+ center for the next four or five seasons for this contract to make sense. I personally don't like the odds of that happening.
Quote:
In short, Backlund is currently an elite two-way player. He's among the elite of the elite defensively while providing close to 50 points a season, if not more.
Yeah, no. In no way, shape or form, is Backlund elite, let alone elite of the elite. In. No. Way. Hyperbole doesn't make your case. Here's a look at Backlund's rankings in comparison to his peers at his position (252 players).
He's still on pace for 48 points despite being incredibly unlucky this season by all accounts (S%, oiSH% and PDO are all the lowest they've been in 7 years) and continues to absolutely obliterate his opponents night in and night out despite being matched up against opposing teams' top lines every night and being buried in defensive zone starts.
He obliterates opponents each and every night? How is he a 231st out of 252 centers (just centers!) in +/- if he's oblitering the opposition each night? I know +/- isn't the greatest stat, but is no worse than the fancy stats which were dreamed up by a bunch of fans looking to pump the tires on their poorly performing team. I'm sorry, but stats just don't support your claims.
As I said earlier, I am happy to see Backlund signed. I think the Flames overpaid, and if Backlund doesn't maintain that 20G/50P pace this contract is going to start stinking pretty quick. If he falls back to 30 points, we're going to have a new whipping boy.
Last edited by Lanny_McDonald; 02-17-2018 at 10:14 AM.
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Pretty damn happy with this deal. Maybe a year too long but who cares. Great cap hit for what he brings to be table. Glad to have him in the fold going forward!
Very good signing. More comfortable with this one than the Gio deal, and he’ll only be 35 when it’s done. He will still be useful then.
Any comment about how this deal will affect Tkachuk’s is flawed though. As others have pointed out, you can’t and don’t compare RFA deals to UFA deals. This deal will have as much impact on Tkachuk as the Turris deal, the Neilson deal, or any other UFA deal. Virtually none.
All he really did is post some facts. It's weird that this upsets people so much. The post barely talked about whether it was a good contract or not..
He posted some pretty weird opinions too. (Like the impact Backlund's contract will have on a Tkachuk deal...and the idea that "what a player could get on the open market is irrelevant.")
