2017/2018 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[bigrangy]

You don't even need stats to notice that Brouwer is bad at hockey (either that, or he's only giving 50% most of the time, since he seems awesome verrrry occasionally)

He fails the eye test almost every shift, unlike the other bad players in the lineup who you only notice being bad when they make big mistakes, you notice Brouwer being bad with almost every single play he makes

[smiggy77]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

You don't even need stats to notice that Brouwer is bad at hockey (either that, or he's only giving 50% most of the time, since he seems awesome verrrry occasionally)

He fails the eye test almost every shift, unlike the other bad players in the lineup who you only notice being bad when they make big mistakes, you notice Brouwer being bad with almost every single play he makes

Beginning of the season, maybe. Since Versteeg went down and during Froliks injury time, I personally thought he filled in well and looked decent out there. Played his role to fill in for the injuries quite well in my opinion.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by smiggy77

Beginning of the season, maybe. Since Versteeg went down and during Froliks injury time, I personally thought he filled in well and looked decent out there. Played his role to fill in for the injuries quite well in my opinion.

His game was raised thanks to Backlund and Tkachuk covering for him more. He still hurt their overall games, it’s just less noticeable when he lines up next to players of that quality.

So, playing slightly better thanks to his linemates doesn’t erase the fact he makes everyone he plays with worse. When considering where to play Brouwer the conversation pretty much boils down to “who can shoulder the burden of Brouwer”, and really Tkachuk and Backlund are the only two who can do it without getting buried.

That’s something Tkachuk and Backlund should be praised for more-so than Brouwer getting props for an improvement in play as of late.

[omelete]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

You never overrate a player for having one good playoff performance. Take a look at what he's done in his last few regular seasons. He's basically on the same trajectory as Danny Heatley. That guy isn't going to help the team as making the playoffs is the team's biggest battle.

Exactly. That leads to doing silly things like giving Troy Bouwer $4.5M for four years......

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

His game was raised thanks to Backlund and Tkachuk covering for him more. He still hurt their overall games, it’s just less noticeable when he lines up next to players of that quality.

So, playing slightly better thanks to his linemates doesn’t erase the fact he makes everyone he plays with worse. When considering where to play Brouwer the conversation pretty much boils down to “who can shoulder the burden of Brouwer”, and really Tkachuk and Backlund are the only two who can do it without getting buried.

That’s something Tkachuk and Backlund should be praised for more-so than Brouwer getting props for an improvement in play as of late.

They did prop him up, but he made some pretty good plays as well. He was also outplaying Bennett on that line for the short time they were together recently.

[Calgary4LIfe]

There can be no argument that the Flames would love to get out of the Brouwer contract.

He is 12th in points - everyone below him (other than Hamonic and Stone) have played significantly less games.

He is 14th in goals.

He has the 6th highest cap hit on the team - 3rd highest if you are looking at just forwards.

Without question, that is a poor contract. Don't have to believe my take - just listen to Treliving's wrap-up after the first season. He said that Brouwer had a disappointing year and he expects him to rebound. Well, that's obviously not happening, and I can't imagine Treliving is content with having that contract on the books. The only reason he is still here is that there hasn't been an opportunity to move him (without taking another poor contract back or giving up assets).

With that being said, Brouwer is playing much better this season than last. He has not lived up to his contract (I think value there is around 1.5 million or so, not 'just' 1 million over paid).

What I do find funny about Brouwer is how "Jekyll and Hyde" he is on any given shift. He really wows me often with how he reads the play, gets into a good position on the defensive side, finds a way to retrieve the puck, makes a strong play to evade the forechecker, skates the puck up the ice, and then once in the offensive zone makes an uncontested (or nearly uncontested) turnover. He does wow me at times with some of the stuff he does. I find him infuriatingly consistent on how often he does a strong play and a poor play.

I don't think the Flames are losing games with him in the lineup. I don't think that they really need the cap space that he is using up at the moment. I don't see the urgency to get rid of him. I just think that if Treliving had any opportunity to do so, he would have done so, and you don't pay a guy 3 million above what his performance dictates for 'leadership'. If that was the case, Jagr would have remained on the team, and we would already have heard of Stajan getting re-upped for next season. There are no positive arguments as to why Brouwer is important to this team at that cap hit, but luckily there are no arguments why the Flames HAVE to find a way to jettison him off the team.

He is a poor player and a poor producer, but he has moments of being effective. As long as Gulutzan doesn't over-use him, he won't lose you games, and the Flames can just wait it out a bit longer. I just don't see how anyone with a straight face can say that he has been valuable to the Flames and that the Flames value what he brings. By any metric - advanced or otherwise - it doesn't add up to anything other than an overpriced contract, and overpriced contracts cost you in a cap world.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

There can be no argument that the Flames would love to get out of the Brouwer contract.

He is 12th in points - everyone below him (other than Hamonic and Stone) have played significantly less games.

He is 14th in goals.

He has the 6th highest cap hit on the team - 3rd highest if you are looking at just forwards.

Without question, that is a poor contract. Don't have to believe my take - just listen to Treliving's wrap-up after the first season. He said that Brouwer had a disappointing year and he expects him to rebound. Well, that's obviously not happening, and I can't imagine Treliving is content with having that contract on the books. The only reason he is still here is that there hasn't been an opportunity to move him (without taking another poor contract back or giving up assets).

With that being said, Brouwer is playing much better this season than last. He has not lived up to his contract (I think value there is around 1.5 million or so, not 'just' 1 million over paid).

What I do find funny about Brouwer is how "Jekyll and Hyde" he is on any given shift. He really wows me often with how he reads the play, gets into a good position on the defensive side, finds a way to retrieve the puck, makes a strong play to evade the forechecker, skates the puck up the ice, and then once in the offensive zone makes an uncontested (or nearly uncontested) turnover. He does wow me at times with some of the stuff he does. I find him infuriatingly consistent on how often he does a strong play and a poor play.

I don't think the Flames are losing games with him in the lineup. I don't think that they really need the cap space that he is using up at the moment. I don't see the urgency to get rid of him. I just think that if Treliving had any opportunity to do so, he would have done so, and you don't pay a guy 3 million above what his performance dictates for 'leadership'. If that was the case, Jagr would have remained on the team, and we would already have heard of Stajan getting re-upped for next season. There are no positive arguments as to why Brouwer is important to this team at that cap hit, but luckily there are no arguments why the Flames HAVE to find a way to jettison him off the team.

He is a poor player and a poor producer, but he has moments of being effective. As long as Gulutzan doesn't over-use him, he won't lose you games, and the Flames can just wait it out a bit longer. I just don't see how anyone with a straight face can say that he has been valuable to the Flames and that the Flames value what he brings. By any metric - advanced or otherwise - it doesn't add up to anything other than an overpriced contract, and overpriced contracts cost you in a cap world.

This right here is what leads me to believe it's an effort thing for Brouwer. The dude just doesn't care.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

This right here is what leads me to believe it's an effort thing for Brouwer. The dude just doesn't care.

He's very popular among the players, and I doubt that happens if he's bagging it. Plus, none of his on ice mistakes are from lack of effort - they are from missing shots or passes that people here seem to think should have been made.

What's going on is that his brain still works but for some reason he can't pull off good plays consistently. He's slower and has a declining skill set that doesn't fit team chemistry.

[yourbestfriend]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

This right here is what leads me to believe it's an effort thing for Brouwer. The dude just doesn't care.

Not sure if it's an effort thing. He skates hard and plays defense pretty well.
Outside that, he just sucks at hockey. Looking at his play from the last 2 years, I have no idea how the hell this guy was essentially a 20/20 player for most to his career.
The puck literally dies every time he gets it. He can't shoot well, can't make plays and doesn't have good hockey IQ. If anything, i'm gonna give him props for getting a GM to throw $18M at him. Just sucks that it's the Flames

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

He's very popular among the players, and I doubt that happens if he's bagging it. Plus, none of his on ice mistakes are from lack of effort - they are from missing shots or passes that people here seem to think should have been made.

What's going on is that his brain still works but for some reason he can't pull off good plays consistently. He's slower and has a declining skill set that doesn't fit team chemistry.

I haven't seen much to suggest he's especially popular. Our players don't go around panning each other.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

He's very popular among the players, and I doubt that happens if he's bagging it. Plus, none of his on ice mistakes are from lack of effort - they are from missing shots or passes that people here seem to think should have been made.

What's going on is that his brain still works but for some reason he can't pull off good plays consistently. He's slower and has a declining skill set that doesn't fit team chemistry.

He may be popular. But for a guy who really should know that all he can bring at this point is energy I don't know how many times watching him lately he hasn't finished a check and just curls away.

Also, he in no way shape or form outplayed Bennett while on that line.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

There can be no argument that the Flames would love to get out of the Brouwer contract.

He is 12th in points - everyone below him (other than Hamonic and Stone) have played significantly less games.

He is 14th in goals.

He has the 6th highest cap hit on the team - 3rd highest if you are looking at just forwards.

Without question, that is a poor contract. Don't have to believe my take - just listen to Treliving's wrap-up after the first season. He said that Brouwer had a disappointing year and he expects him to rebound. Well, that's obviously not happening, and I can't imagine Treliving is content with having that contract on the books. The only reason he is still here is that there hasn't been an opportunity to move him (without taking another poor contract back or giving up assets).

With that being said, Brouwer is playing much better this season than last. He has not lived up to his contract (I think value there is around 1.5 million or so, not 'just' 1 million over paid).

What I do find funny about Brouwer is how "Jekyll and Hyde" he is on any given shift. He really wows me often with how he reads the play, gets into a good position on the defensive side, finds a way to retrieve the puck, makes a strong play to evade the forechecker, skates the puck up the ice, and then once in the offensive zone makes an uncontested (or nearly uncontested) turnover. He does wow me at times with some of the stuff he does. I find him infuriatingly consistent on how often he does a strong play and a poor play.

I don't think the Flames are losing games with him in the lineup. I don't think that they really need the cap space that he is using up at the moment. I don't see the urgency to get rid of him. I just think that if Treliving had any opportunity to do so, he would have done so, and you don't pay a guy 3 million above what his performance dictates for 'leadership'. If that was the case, Jagr would have remained on the team, and we would already have heard of Stajan getting re-upped for next season. There are no positive arguments as to why Brouwer is important to this team at that cap hit, but luckily there are no arguments why the Flames HAVE to find a way to jettison him off the team.

He is a poor player and a poor producer, but he has moments of being effective. As long as Gulutzan doesn't over-use him, he won't lose you games, and the Flames can just wait it out a bit longer. I just don't see how anyone with a straight face can say that he has been valuable to the Flames and that the Flames value what he brings. By any metric - advanced or otherwise - it doesn't add up to anything other than an overpriced contract, and overpriced contracts cost you in a cap world.

Totally agree. The only thing that is worrying is that he is an anchor and sewers any line he is put on. Also GG over-uses him consistently and that is the real issue.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I haven't seen much to suggest he's especially popular. Our players don't go around panning each other.

Agreed. I'm pretty sure every boat anchor player in the league is called "popular" by media and fans. What a bunch of bunk. Brouwer won't be a part of any moves at the deadline - you couldn't put enough lipstick on that pig to get it to market any day of the week.

My gut tells me this team will be in on some significant players in the hopes of sparking the special teams for a playoff run, however, it will certainly come at the cost of the existing prospect pool. I'm fine with this approach so long as it is not for a rental.

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by omelete

Exactly. That leads to doing silly things like giving Troy Bouwer $4.5M for four years......

I don't think Brouwer's deal was based on that specifically. They were hoping to bring in a top 9 RW veteran who was a proper RH shot, netfront presence and had a long history of being a 20 goal, 20 assist guy.

At the very least they were probably thinking they would get another season or two of 40pt performance. Not for his skill to enter the void as soon as he became a Flame.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I haven't seen much to suggest he's especially popular. Our players don't go around panning each other.

Insiders say this. He's supposedly a very funny guy and the players like him. In addition, it was apparent in the skills competition when the players interacted, which I saw. He's pretty similar to Versteeg in this. With Brouwer, this has been his rep for his career, not just Calgary.

You can tell when players like each other and when they merely tolerate the others as a teammate. It was obvious between Iggy and Conroy, Between Newy and Roberts. The opposite was palpable between Regher and Phaneuf. Fleury was a guy that teamates didn't seem to really cotton to.

Brouwer has also been known to call out players (i.e. Semin) for a lack of effort so I'd think he takes that seriously. In any event, his decline is not from lack of effort that I can see. He, like a lot of players of his ilk, has just hit a wall. Look at Lucic.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

He may be popular. But for a guy who really should know that all he can bring at this point is energy I don't know how many times watching him lately he hasn't finished a check and just curls away.

Also, he in no way shape or form outplayed Bennett while on that line.

Bennett was crap for several weeks, and Brouwer outplayed him. It's noted on those game threads.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Insiders say this. He's supposedly a very funny guy and the players like him. In addition, it was apparent in the skills competition when the players interacted, which I saw. He's pretty similar to Versteeg in this. With Brouwer, this has been his rep for his career, not just Calgary.

You can tell when players like each other and when they merely tolerate the others as a teammate. It was obvious between Iggy and Conroy, Between Newy and Roberts. The opposite was palpable between Regher and Phaneuf. Fleury was a guy that teamates didn't seem to really cotton to.

Brouwer has also been known to call out players (i.e. Semin) for a lack of effort so I'd think he takes that seriously. In any event, his decline is not from lack of effort that I can see. He, like a lot of players of his ilk, has just hit a wall. Look at Lucic.

Being well liked should never be a factor in whether you keep an employee around... if he can't perform get rid of him. Unfortunately that's impossible at present

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Anduril

I don't think Brouwer's deal was based on that specifically. They were hoping to bring in a top 9 RW veteran who was a proper RH shot, netfront presence and had a long history of being a 20 goal, 20 assist guy.

At the very least they were probably thinking they would get another season or two of 40pt performance. Not for his skill to enter the void as soon as he became a Flame.

A better example of a decent playoff leading to a bad signing is Bollig. Or Matt Belesky.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

Being well liked should never be a factor in whether you keep an employee around... if he can't perform get rid of him. Unfortunately that's impossible at present

Why on earth do you think I was arguing for keeping him around.

BTW, it's not impossible. He could be bought out.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Agreed. I'm pretty sure every boat anchor player in the league is called "popular" by media and fans. What a bunch of bunk. Brouwer won't be a part of any moves at the deadline - you couldn't put enough lipstick on that pig to get it to market any day of the week.

My gut tells me this team will be in on some significant players in the hopes of sparking the special teams for a playoff run, however, it will certainly come at the cost of the existing prospect pool. I'm fine with this approach so long as it is not for a rental.

Ummm, no. Wherever do you get that idea?

I am not arguing anything about moving Brouwer. I'm just commenting on the post about inconsistency. He's just getting old. Just like Ferland's inconsistency wasn't from lack of effort, but because he was young.