[PGT] Flames 2 @ Boston 5

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

This seems to happen to most lines that get matched against Bergeron-Marchand-Pastrnak

Still, a lot of their mistakes weren't from being outplayed, but by being outcompeted. Bruins were harder on pucks and much more focused on winning

^^^
This.

I was stunned by how relentless the Bruins in general, and this line in particular, were on the puck. As soon as there's a loose puck, some Bruin is *flying* at it...not just skating to it - they work their butts off. Very impressive.

The way they interfered with the PP was a masterpiece to watch (sadly). No Flame had any time with the puck - and the Flames aren't fast with it at the best of times as they try to shape into some kind of Cameron-esque formation....no time, no space and plenty of sticks in the way. Wow.

And yes, the Flames PK was mostly excellent. Too bad the PP is a pile of poop.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Special teams cost this team yet again. 5 on 5, this team is one of the best in the league. Get even halfway decent special teams, and we're talking about being one of the elites.

It was such a noticeable change in momentum following either a power play or a penalty kill. It turned the tide in a game that was largely even early on, and the Flames held the edge on the score board.

I've never seen assistant coaches fired mid-season without the head coach being let go too, so I doubt this would happen. However, there needs to be a change because this is seriously hurting the team at this point.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Yes, 1 power-play goal per game is that difficult. The 2009-10 Washington Capitals led the league with 79 power play goals, which is still less than one PPG per game. No team since then has even come close.

When you give up four even-strength goals in a game, your power play is not what caused you to lose.

Sure, but in hockey games, the result is often determined by timing. How many times this season have the Flames been tied 2-2, 1-1 or up 2-1 only to squander a 5-4 or 5-3 by barely managing to get a shot on goal? These are moments, like last night, where the team needs to find a way to capitalize more often than naught and bury a team if they're going to be a serious playoff team.

When you don't even manage to dictate play with the man advantage, a team like the Bruins will simply shove it back down your throat as soon as they are back at EV strength.

[Toonage]

What floors me is that among the media in Calgary that have been polite enough to reply to me, they all feel this on the players and not coaching.

After a few games or maybe a month? Sure, could be an execution issue. This long? How is it not on the coaches?

[Royle9]

Best "gem" I caught was the Hathaway interview in the 2nd intermission.
He was asked how they push back in the third and instead of the usual "stay out of the box, keep our composure" recycled comments he said something to the effect of "We gotta stay away from special teams and just play 5 on 5"

One would assume he's referring to staying out of the box, but I couldn't help but hope it was a subtle jab at the horrendous PP of Davey Cameron.

[Nsd1]

Originally Posted by Toonage

What floors me is that among the media in Calgary that have been polite enough to reply to me, they all feel this on the players and not coaching.

After a few games or maybe a month? Sure, could be an execution issue. This long? How is it not on the coaches?

You can definitely put some blame on the players for the power play struggles. If you look at Mike Fs post a few pages back about player positioning, that's something the players can correct themselves. Gaudreau should be able to recognize that he should be on the right side at this point. There's nothing stopping them from cycling to that side. Monahan, Gaudreau and Tkachuk all have good shots. Having them shoot from the right would make a huge difference.

The same can be said for the guys at the point. Often you see Gio or Brodie throw weak shots towards the next which are blocked majority of the time or you see them hesitate to shoot and then make a bad play. Hamilton can hit the net but hesitates to much when shooting. Stone can actually use a slap shot but can't hit the net.

Unless the coaches are telling them to second guess themselves or throw weak shots on net, the players need to take some blame too.

[Toonage]

That goes back to my point though. How long does it take coaches to watch their players fumble before they step in and make those corrections themselves? If they aren't, and they've spent the past 5 months watching their team incorrectly position themselves and flat out fail to execute how do they not say anything? And if they haven't then what exactly are they doing?

I don't believe for a second the coaches are saying to loft pucks at the net or be as slow and passive as humanly possible. Of course not. But after 50+ games or mostly horrible results, if they can't reach these players then is it not their fault?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Toonage

That goes back to my point though. How long does it take coaches to watch their players fumble before they step in and make those corrections themselves? If they aren't, and they've spent the past 5 months watching their team incorrectly position themselves and flat out fail to execute how do they not say anything? And if they haven't then what exactly are they doing?

I don't believe for a second the coaches are saying to loft pucks at the net or be as slow and passive as humanly possible. Of course not. But after 50+ games or mostly horrible results, if they can't reach these players then is it not their fault?

If they are coaching what I think they are - which is to move the puck quickly and get pucks on net as much as possible, and if the players are still taking too long to do this, I'm not sure how they can "step in and make those corrections themselves". The top skilled player on the team, Johnny, is as guilty as any of them of taking too long to pass (or finally getting frustrated and shooting a really low percentage weak wrister through a crowd).

I'm starting to think they need to put in Stajan and Lazar. At least they will crash the net and muck things up.

[Nsd1]

I agree that the majority of the blame is on the coaching staff. It took the more than half the season and injuries to Brouwer and Versteeg to finally change some of the players around. They even practised a different setup a few weeks ago but didn't implement it in game for some reason. In my opinion though, players should be able to identify issues and make on ice adjustments. When the bump back to Gaudreau zone entry doesn't work, they try the dump and chase. When having everyone shoot for the weak side doesn't work, as a player why not try the other side?

I think Cameron is a terrible coach but look at where Ottawas power play is right now. He took a lot of blame for having a bad power play but with new coaches they're still only 0.1% above the Flames. That's a team with Karlsson, Stone, Hoffman, Duchene and Ryan. All those guys can shoot and make plays. If you are a coach for the Senators, who else could you throw out there? Same with the Flames, who else can they put out there?

[Lumby Lager]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

Wasn't expecting a win. But the Flames fought back to tie it. They had a chance. Even the guy who announced with Rick Ball commented on how the Bruins don't sit back on leads. They keep pushing forward.

BTW I'm not sure who Ball's new sidekick is, but I enjoy him commentary. Has kind of a different voice then I'm used to hearing. But he calls a spade a spade. He's called out Bennett's dumb penalties the last few games. Called out the lacklustre PP. Called our the Flames for lack of emotion. He sees what us fans see in the growth of Matthew Tkachuk.

He's not as homerish as Hrudey and seems to see the game through a different set of eyes. I really enjoy listening to him.

It should have been Jason York, I did not watch the game but that who has been doing it recently.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Nsd1

I agree that the majority of the blame is on the coaching staff. It took the more than half the season and injuries to Brouwer and Versteeg to finally change some of the players around. They even practised a different setup a few weeks ago but didn't implement it in game for some reason. In my opinion though, players should be able to identify issues and make on ice adjustments. When the bump back to Gaudreau zone entry doesn't work, they try the dump and chase. When having everyone shoot for the weak side doesn't work, as a player why not try the other side?

I think Cameron is a terrible coach but look at where Ottawas power play is right now. He took a lot of blame for having a bad power play but with new coaches they're still only 0.1% above the Flames. That's a team with Karlsson, Stone, Hoffman, Duchene and Ryan. All those guys can shoot and make plays. If you are a coach for the Senators, who else could you throw out there? Same with the Flames, who else can they put out there?

A couple comments: The Flames have been changing personnel - they put Hamilton on unit one for the last couple games. It has made it look better, but the results aren't there. I wanted Jankowski on the PP and they put him on, but he hasn't done much.

The bump back works. I know people think it doesn't but watch how few times they don't enter the zone.

RH/LH - they should switch, but only after entry. JG needs to enter on the left to protect the puck. He can (and sometimes does) circle to the right side after entry. Gio and Hamilton could make a deliberate switch - sometimes teams do that. I wonder if they are worried about pinches (it's much harder to pinch on the offhand-side).

Their problem is passing. Too slow and sometimes just a little off (not a clear miss but enough to slow the play down). And shots are too few, too weak and often on the side with the most traffic.

This team should be playing the PP down low, where Ferland, Bennett, and Tkachuk are most effective. People want the pretty one timer or point shot, or back door open net. I want the quick release that Bennett scored on, or the scramble that somehow slips across the line because there are more Flames than defenders. I want ugly goals on the PP.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Toonage

What floors me is that among the media in Calgary that have been polite enough to reply to me, they all feel this on the players and not coaching.

After a few games or maybe a month? Sure, could be an execution issue. This long? How is it not on the coaches?

Cause management's hand picked, good guy coaching staff with ties going back to x days can do no wrong.

Easier to dump results on the players than 'their' guys. Meanwhile the media here doesn't like to challenge or call out the club's decisions, or lack thereof. Perhaps a bit too much respect between everyone at times. As long as the club is putting out the image of 'holding the course, the media will back that.

If there's one thing this group of coaches do not specialise in, it's maximizing goal scoring out of talented players. Often feels like they're confined to an imaginary box out there. The only way to overcome the boundaries of this system and the special team's limitations is to bring in more talent to compensate, so let's hope treliving is at least doing that, if he's going to keep a <10% PP (in 2018) coach here.

[bubbsy]

Just one thing that was painful to watch last night was yet again, everyone's favourite dman, tj brodie.

Just as the PK is complete, he just blindly throws it up the ice into the neutral zone, it goes straight to a bruin who's already speeding towards the flames end. Brodie's great defensive play is to wave his stick and basically do a complete 360 degree twirl, as the bruins tic tac toe the puck into the net behind him.

I was really really hoping last year was a one off and with a better, more stable d partner, this year would be a bit of a come back year for the guy. Unfortunately, I'd would say that he might actually have regressed even further this season.

[Toonage]

Valimaki likely makes Brodie expendable in the off season, but the team will have to live through whatever his play provides from here on out through the end of the season.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Valimaki likely makes Brodie expendable in the off season, but the team will have to live through whatever his play provides from here on out through the end of the season.

Only if we are run by the Oilers.

there's no guarantee that Valilmaki is going to be ready, especially top 4 ready.

Or are we going to rush him to the NHL?

Its more then likely that Andersson will be the guy that needs to take a spot next year, or Kylington.

Which more then likely could make Brodie a moveable piece, or Stone a movable piece.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Valimaki likely makes Brodie expendable in the off season, but the team will have to live through whatever his play provides from here on out through the end of the season.

In the off-season? This off-season?

What kind of expectations does this forum have? What happens if we trade Brodie to make room for Valimaki and he looks like your typical 20 year old defenceman playing in the NHL next season? Is every other post in the PGT going to be calling him a bust too?

[CaptainCrunch]

I was worried about this 6 game road trip, and really viewed it as a make or break roadtrip.

So far we've got 3-2 losses, the two losses the one against New York, I really didn't like anything about that game from a Flames perspective, the effort and execution were bad.

When I looked at this game against Boston, even a month ago, I had a bad feeling about that game. That is a contending team that's deep everywhere. There's a reason why they're where they are at.

There is a murderers row at the top of the NHL in terms of Nashville and Boston with Tampa Bay up there, but I'm not as sold on them. I'm really not sold on LV either.

What we saw last night was a top contender against a middle contender.

when they decided it was time, it was time.

So I expected a loss. The question is, what happens against Nashville to end the trip. If the Flames can beat them and finish at 4-2, then they've gotten by what I consider to be one of the bigger road block portions of the schedule, and they'll likely still be in a playoff spot.

Even if they finish at 3-3 on this trip its survival. But to me the more important question is how will they play against Nashville, because this game was a real illustration of how far the Flames have to go.

[Fan in Exile]

Cameron is the fall-guy with the board this year, just like Sigalet was the previous two years. Our powerplay sucks and our PK is mediocre. GG is the head coach. He should be taking care of the situation and the personnel and working with Cameron to find a solution. If they can't figure it out, GG should be talking with Treliving or Treliving should see what we all see and make changes.

What fanbase is so obsessed with assistant coaches? Usually the headcoach stamps his identity. Can you imagine the excuse for Tortorella or Babcock or Sutter being that the assistant coach running the powerplay is no good. The buck stops with GG. If that fails, it stops with Treliving.

[Monahammer]

This might be an unpopular opinion, but IMO why don't we just give the whiteboard to the league's second highest scorer and tell him to design a powerplay run around his style. Then get the players to execute that.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

In the off-season? This off-season?

What kind of expectations does this forum have? What happens if we trade Brodie to make room for Valimaki and he looks like your typical 20 year old defenceman playing in the NHL next season? Is every other post in the PGT going to be calling him a bust too?

Honestly though, Brodie looks like a typical 20 year old rookie defencemen right now. So could it get any worse?