Sam Bennett Value: Have the Flames held on TOO long? OR is he awesome?

[GoJetsGo]

I definitely think some of the outrage and impatience is over the top, but there is a lot of validity to the timeline of wanting to compete while Gio's still a top D-man and Johnny and Monny are in the middle of these current contracts.

I wouldn't be looking to move Bennett just for the sake of getting rid of him. At this point being patient rather than just taking whatever we can get is clearly the better option.

However, if he was a useful commodity in a package to land a player that is more aimed at helping us win in the next few seasons, it's definitely something to explore.

[crdr]

He isn't going to resign after next season. Looking back at his Juniors tapes. The Flames put Ferland's development ahead of Benny's. I get the Seniority aspect. But, putting a speedster in a grinding role is plain stupid. Regardless of performance. Benny's upside is wayyyyy bigger than most people see. It's too bad it won't be seen in a Calgary Flames' uniform. Barring a shocking playoff performance yet to be seen.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

I definitely think some of the outrage and impatience is over the top, but there is a lot of validity to the timeline of wanting to compete while Gio's still a top D-man and Johnny and Monny are in the middle of these current contracts.

I wouldn't be looking to move Bennett just for the sake of getting rid of him. At this point being patient rather than just taking whatever we can get is clearly the better option.

However, if he was a useful commodity in a package to land a player that is more aimed at helping us win in the next few seasons, it's definitely something to explore.

So if we're focusing in on this window, would it not be wiser to trade non-roster players and a pick to get Hoffman?

Gaudreau - Monahan - Ferland
Tkachuk - Backlund - Frolik
Bennett - Jankowski - Hoffman
Lomberg - Stajan - Lazar

As we don't have a prospect that has proven more or has more potential at Bennett's position within the system, which means we're subtracting a top 9 forward to add a top 9 forward...how does that improve depth?

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by crdr

He isn't going to resign after next season. Looking back at his Juniors tapes. The Flames put Ferland's development ahead of Benny's. I get the Seniority aspect. But, putting a speedster in a grinding role is plain stupid. Regardless of performance. Benny's upside is wayyyyy bigger than most people see. It's too bad it won't be seen in a Calgary Flames' uniform. Barring a shocking playoff performance yet to be seen.

He'll still be an RFA when this contract ends. Re-signing or requesting a trade are his only options.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

What difference does that make?

The only thing that matters at this point is what he can become- what happens going forward Where he was drafted 4 years ago, means jack.

The way fans hate on players because of where they got drafted, is astounding to me.

You cant erase where a player was drafted. He was drafted that high for a reason. I think its fair to expect more from a 4th overall than a 4th round pick, even 4 years later. There is a difference between exceeding all possible expectations or never getting close to meeting them.
I dont hate bennett. But i do think he's in bust territory. bennett is almost at current yakapov level of play.
Although to you that might be ok as where yak was drafted doesn't matter either.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

So if we're focusing in on this window, would it not be wiser to trade non-roster players and a pick to get Hoffman?

Gaudreau - Monahan - Ferland
Tkachuk - Backlund - Frolik
Bennett - Jankowski - Hoffman
Lomberg - Stajan - Lazar

As we don't have a prospect that has proven more or has more potential at Bennett's position within the system, which means we're subtracting a top 9 forward to add a top 9 forward...how does that improve depth?

Not really sure what you're taking issue with, as I clearly said it's only something that should be explored if it was part of a deal that made sense to improve the team the next few years.

To answer your question above (noting I didn't say anything about Hoffman) you're asking how it improves depth if somehow Bennett (and let's say for discussion sake - is packaged with another prospect not on the roster) turns into Hoffman?

It replaces a top nine player with a clearly better one in the here and now.

That's what I said above. Don't move Bennett for the sake of it. Much better to keep him and hope he improves. But if a hockey trade comes along that allows us to land an impact forward and he's a part of it, you definitely consider it if the team improves now and over the next few seasons.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

What difference does that make?

The only thing that matters at this point is what he can become- what happens going forward Where he was drafted 4 years ago, means jack.

If Bennett wasn't a high first round pick, he wouldn't even be playing in the NHL right now - he'd be in the AHL. So draft pedigree cuts both ways.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by crdr

He isn't going to resign after next season. Looking back at his Juniors tapes. The Flames put Ferland's development ahead of Benny's. I get the Seniority aspect. But, putting a speedster in a grinding role is plain stupid. Regardless of performance. Benny's upside is wayyyyy bigger than most people see. It's too bad it won't be seen in a Calgary Flames' uniform. Barring a shocking playoff performance yet to be seen.

If that is his attitude, no big loss. The guy has done jack for two straight seasons and is headed in the wrong direction. He shows little puck sense and has a propensity for stupid penalties. Show something of that highest pick in team history pedigree and then we'll talk about him having expectations. Because as it is, he hasn't come close to any of the expectations people had for him. He doesn't look like much of a NHL player to be honest with you.

[crdr]

He doesn't look much like a 4th overall pick. But, there is genius in him. But, I agree with every diagnosis on this thread. It's not pretty when he's on the ice the majority of the time. That gap from Juniors to the NHL is deep. Nice pass to Janko though...

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by crdr

He isn't going to resign after next season. Looking back at his Juniors tapes. The Flames put Ferland's development ahead of Benny's. I get the Seniority aspect. But, putting a speedster in a grinding role is plain stupid. Regardless of performance. Benny's upside is wayyyyy bigger than most people see. It's too bad it won't be seen in a Calgary Flames' uniform. Barring a shocking playoff performance yet to be seen.

I don’t like his odds of being a Flame for the duration of contract if he his poor play continues now and into next season as well. The Flames also didn’t put Ferland’s development ahead of Bennett, Ferland earned his spot. We’ve seen Bennett center Gaudreau and he hasn’t played well enough to stay with him because he’s not a natural center. The team cares more about wins and players who contribute to wins more than any single player. I have no problem playing Bennett on the 3rd line because as of today, he’s shown that he’s not a consistently effective top 6 forward yet.

[IgiTang]

This game against the isles is a example of why not to trade Sam. Unfortunately he forgets that that’s the way he needs to play to not only take his game to the next level but to simply not be considered a bust.

[the_only_turek_fan]

One of the big things I have noticed is that he has changed the way he is playing. Remember the goal against Pittsburgh? Remember his fourth goal against Florida? He used to dangle and try stuff. He looks to me like he is being held back.

He scored 18 in his rookie year. The guy can play. He is just being misused.

[Pointman]

Remember how Sutter has ignited Rob Niedermayer?

Niedermayer was a lot like Bennett - a top 5 pick, great physical package, lacks hockey sense and consistency. Sutter moved Special Nieds to the wing and completely reinvented the style that Niedermayer used to play and it worked wonders.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Remember how Sutter has ignited Rob Niedermayer?

Niedermayer was a lot like Bennett - a top 5 pick, great physical package, lacks hockey sense and consistency. Sutter moved Special Nieds to the wing and completely reinvented the style that Niedermayer used to play and it worked wonders.

Yea i'm not seeing it no offence. An 18 and 20 point season with the Flames as a number 5 pick is no ray of hope for Bennett to aspire to. I pray Bennett ends up better than that if we are hanging onto him. He has already produced more than that for us ironically.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Remember how Sutter has ignited Rob Niedermayer?

Niedermayer was a lot like Bennett - a top 5 pick, great physical package, lacks hockey sense and consistency. Sutter moved Special Nieds to the wing and completely reinvented the style that Niedermayer used to play and it worked wonders.

What are you talking about? Neidermayer was an OK player in Florida - a high of 26 goals and 63 points, but normally in the 35 point range. In his less than two years in Calgary he had 18 and 20 points (4 more after he was traded to the Ducks). His first season in Calgary was under Greg Gilbert. He played half of his second year under Gilbert, 11 games under MacNeil and something like 18 under Sutter, then he was traded. He always played wing in Calgary.

[crdr]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I don’t like his odds of being a Flame for the duration of contract if he his poor play continues now and into next season as well. The Flames also didn’t put Ferland’s development ahead of Bennett, Ferland earned his spot. We’ve seen Bennett center Gaudreau and he hasn’t played well enough to stay with him because he’s not a natural center. The team cares more about wins and players who contribute to wins more than any single player. I have no problem playing Bennett on the 3rd line because as of today, he’s shown that he’s not a consistently effective top 6 forward yet.

I love looking at Ferland's stats before being put up with the hottest duo in the NHL. I'm really going to go to bat for a 21 year old centerman who has had to adjust to the game at a breakneck speed.

I'm glad someone pointed out he's an RFA. Everyone here in Calgary loves Micheal Ferland. I get it. It's hard to even have an actual rational conversation with most Flames Fans about the guy.

The question I have for this thread is this: Why is everyone so patient with Micheal Ferland who has done NOTHING (23 points total) before being set up full time with Johnny and Mony. Yet, ready to chase a 21 year old 4th overall pick out of the city?

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by crdr

I love looking at Ferland's stats before being put up with the hottest duo in the NHL. I'm really going to go to bat for a 21 year old centerman who has had to adjust to the game at a breakneck speed.

I'm glad someone pointed out he's an RFA. Everyone here in Calgary loves Micheal Ferland. I get it. It's hard to even have an actual rational conversation with most Flames Fans about the guy.

The question I have for this thread is this: Why is everyone so patient with Micheal Ferland who has done NOTHING (23 points total) before being set up full time with Johnny and Mony. Yet, ready to chase a 21 year old 4th overall pick out of the city?

Because Micheal Ferland not only produces offensively, but he also plays a gritty physical game without taking offensive zone penalties that hurts the team. He's in the single digits of minor penalties taken and for a guy who plays as physical as he does, that's impressive.

The frustration with Bennett for me is more so that he doesn't seem to get it. I'm not going to get into his hockey sense and etc. But fact is, he's taking the same penalties he took last season that got him benched and scratched. He started the season taking the same types of penalties, it tapered off in December, but now he's at it again.

This is the exact same kind of stuff that lead to the Oilers buying out Benoit Pouliot with 2 years left. He was a good penalty killer, played with some pace, had some offensive skills but took a maddening amount of offensive zone penalties that hurt his team.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by crdr

I love looking at Ferland's stats before being put up with the hottest duo in the NHL. I'm really going to go to bat for a 21 year old centerman who has had to adjust to the game at a breakneck speed.

I'm glad someone pointed out he's an RFA. Everyone here in Calgary loves Micheal Ferland. I get it. It's hard to even have an actual rational conversation with most Flames Fans about the guy.

The question I have for this thread is this: Why is everyone so patient with Micheal Ferland who has done NOTHING (23 points total) before being set up full time with Johnny and Mony. Yet, ready to chase a 21 year old 4th overall pick out of the city?

Maybe - and just spitballing here, but hear me out - maybe they're different peopel that think those things.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by crdr

The question I have for this thread is this: Why is everyone so patient with Micheal Ferland who has done NOTHING (23 points total) before being set up full time with Johnny and Mony. Yet, ready to chase a 21 year old 4th overall pick out of the city?

Bennett, a top four pick, versus Ferland, a 5th round pick. Hmmmm, not sure why people would be more patient with one than the other. One has seen continued growth and improvement, and the other has been headed in the opposite direction. I don't know why one guy would get more opportunity than the other? Maybe if Bennett started out on the farm and earned his way onto the team like Ferland did, people would be a little more patient? Bennett has pretty much been handed a spot and has never really lived up to expectations, let alone surpassing any of them, which Ferland has done in spades. Might have something to do with Ferland getting a pass, and Bennett not.

[crdr]

Originally Posted by New Era

Bennett, a top four pick, versus Ferland, a 5th round pick. Hmmmm, not sure why people would be more patient with one than the other. One has seen continued growth and improvement, and the other has been headed in the opposite direction. I don't know why one guy would get more opportunity than the other? Maybe if Bennett started out on the farm and earned his way onto the team like Ferland did, people would be a little more patient? Bennett has pretty much been handed a spot and has never really lived up to expectations, let alone surpassing any of them, which Ferland has done in spades. Might have something to do with Ferland getting a pass, and Bennett not.

Michael Ferland 83 points in 228 games at 25 years old. (Earned top line minutes)
Sam Bennett 82 points in 218 games as a 21 year old. (Without Johnny and Mony)

All I hear from you guys is emotional opinion.

Weird.