Sam Bennett Value: Have the Flames held on TOO long? OR is he awesome?

[activeStick]

I'm not sure where I sit regarding Bennett's abilities as a Top 6 forward or him meeting his 4th overall draft hope. The Flames have had him with Gaudreau, moved him from center to wing once it became clear he was going to continue to struggle down the middle and have tried putting him with a number of different linemates. I can't say the Flames haven't tried to be accommodating and patient if he does end up doing a 180 somewhere else.

[The Boy Wonder]

Honestly would be nice to just see him given a chance in a top6 role. It would require switching either him or tkachuk to RW since he can't seem to get bumped up top 6 ever and he never gets a full stretch of time say 5 games with competent line mates. Brouwer is awful and is almost solely responsible for a lot of bennetts hardships. Not to mention he's the guy that gets moved up the lineup when there's an opening

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by delayedreflex

I could have sworn that scouts generally thought that Bennett had good hockey IQ (or at least praised his vision and ability to read the play) - is it the case that hockey IQ in junior doesn't necessarily translate to higher levels? Sure makes scouting difficult.

It does seem to be a difficult trait to project to the NHL. More difficult than skating, shooting, puck skills, or jam.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I guess I feel like if a player is taken in the top 5 of the draft, based on recent draft history, it suggests that player is very likely NHL ready (like, will make an impact ready).

I understand patience if the player is a later round draftpick. But these kids taken that high in a draft historically have been very good, very early. That’s why Bennett’s expectations of what he should have been have not been met and as a consequence of that, why clearly the Flames should have sold high on him a year ago to maximize value.

At least he's not a Strome or a Reinhart.

[Bingo]

Still think he's been a little unlucky this year as well.

Shooting percentage is down, and his heat map looks more effective than the results have shown.



Versus the heat map for the Flames without him on the ice

[redforever]

Bennett pretty well played with McDavid exclusively prior to making it to the NHL. There are not many McDavid's out there and I think Bennett has struggled not playing with that same talent level. I sometimes question if Bennett was that good or did playing with Mcdavid make him look that good.

I think the fact that he required shoulder surgery his first year did not help his development either.

Not sure what to make of Bennett at this point...have not made up my mind. I do think he improved with some mentoring from Jagr.

[Flash Walken]

https://twitter.com/user/status/961639707275771904

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by redforever

Bennett pretty well played with McDavid exclusively prior to making it to the NHL. There are not many McDavid's out there and I think Bennett has struggled not playing with that same talent level. I sometimes question if Bennett was that good or did playing with Mcdavid make him look that good.

I think the fact that he required shoulder surgery his first year did not help his development either.

Not sure what to make of Bennett at this point...have not made up my mind. I do think he improved with some mentoring from Jagr.

What are you talking about? Bennett didn't play with McDavid since he was 14

[killer_carlson]

What are Bennett's stats with and without Brouwer?

Last year Brouwer was a horrific anchor. Has it been the same this year?

I don't know where to look this info up for myself, so assistance is requested

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by redforever

bennett pretty well played with mcdavid exclusively prior to making it to the nhl. There are not many mcdavid's out there and i think bennett has struggled not playing with that same talent level. I sometimes question if bennett was that good or did playing with mcdavid make him look that good.

I think the fact that he required shoulder surgery his first year did not help his development either.

Not sure what to make of bennett at this point...have not made up my mind. I do think he improved with some mentoring from jagr.

fake news!

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

What are Bennett's stats with and without Brouwer?

Last year Brouwer was a horrific anchor. Has it been the same this year?

I don't know where to look this info up for myself, so assistance is requested

Together - 78 minutes CF% 41% Scoring Chances 34%
Bennett w/o Brouwer - 521 minutes CF% 50.4% Scoring Chances 57%
Brouwer w/o Bennett - 457 minutes CF% 50.6% Scoring Chances 53%

Poison pill together for sure.

And keep in mind Brouwer gets the added bump from playing a spell with the 3M line.

Brouwer with Backlund - 52.3% CF% and 51.2% Scoring chances
Brouwer without Backlund - 47% CF% and 48% Scoring chances

Backlund without Brouwer is 56% / 57%

[Drunk Uncle]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Together - 78 minutes CF% 41% Scoring Chances 34%
Bennett w/o Brouwer - 521 minutes CF% 50.4% Scoring Chances 57%
Brouwer w/o Bennett - 457 minutes CF% 50.6% Scoring Chances 53%

Poison pill together for sure.

And keep in mind Brouwer gets the added bump from playing a spell with the 3M line.

Brouwer with Backlund - 52.3% CF% and 51.2% Scoring chances
Brouwer without Backlund - 47% CF% and 48% Scoring chances

Backlund without Brouwer is 56% / 57%

Where can I look this type of information up? I'm curious whether Brouwer has been a serviceable 4th liner or if he was dragging that line down too.

Either way it surprises me that the coaching staff went back to Brouwer with Bennett given these numbers.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

https://twitter.com/user/status/961639707275771904

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The backlund comparison doesn't illustrate what people championing it think it does.

Are you willing to wait 5 or 6 years for Bennett to turn into something? Do we think this team is waiting for gio to be 38 or Gaudreau to be 30 before the flames are legitimate contenders?

Is the argument really that flames fans and the organization should be happy to wait 4 more years for Bennett to break 20 goals?

A backlund style development curve for a 4th overall pick would be considered a bust in my opinion. Bennett is not a couturier level defensive player that you hope develops some offense. You can't play him as a heavy minute defensive player, and he has clearly demonstrated an inability to produce offense that would justify playing him in a top 6 role at C, so where do you play him?

The penalties are a serious issue in my mind because they reflect one, two or three if the following: poor skating, poor hockey IQ, poor positioning.

I really hope he turns into something but there is not much to go on right now to suggest this is just a slump. There are 85+ games of him at centre at this point and he is just not getting it done, poor linemates or no.

Eventually this potential has to turn into something tangible.

Kent Wilson, bringing the noise.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Drunk Uncle

Where can I look this type of information up? I'm curious whether Brouwer has been a serviceable 4th liner or if he was dragging that line down too.

Either way it surprises me that the coaching staff went back to Brouwer with Bennett given these numbers.

Natural Stat Trick

Best way to look at the fourth line is with Stajan

Stajan and Brouwer together - 51.7% CF 57% Scoring Chances
Stajan w/o Brouwer - 47% / 58%
Brouwer w/o Stajan - 47% / 44%

Decent together but Stajan better off without him in terms of impact.

[killer_carlson]

Thanks Bingo

So I read that as saying Bennett and Brouwer shouldn't be on the same line. And that we shouldn't be judging Bennett when his stats are approximately 50%/33 better when Brouwer isn't his winger.

And given that Brouwer's stats drop this year with Bennett, the question goes back to coaching and questionable usage.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Thanks Bingo

So I read that as saying Bennett and Brouwer shouldn't be on the same line. And that we shouldn't be judging Bennett when his stats are approximately 50%/33 better when Brouwer isn't his winger.

And given that Brouwer's stats drop this year with Bennett, the question goes back to coaching and questionable usage.

The stats are saying Brouwer shouldn't be on any line, but I also don't believe they are a ringing endorsement for what Bennett is bringing without Brouwer there.

I think we can all agree Brouwer has no place on this roster, but I don't think that is justification for why Bennett has underwhelmed for 100-150 games now.

[jonkaupp]

I think that its pretty clear that we shouldnt trade Bennett at this point, barring some team over valuing him based on draft pedigree. If hes a potential throw in for a bigger deal then you probably consider it. That said, this crap about how you cant criticize Bennett because he’s only 21 needs to die. There are a ton of reasons he deserves criticism, mostly of his own doing. I love that someone said that if you cut off his beginning of the season then he’s actually .5ppg while not considering that if you cut out his one month then hes like something like .11ppg. You cant just pick and choose. He’s got like a good 15 games stretch book ended by 38 games of very bad play. His one month was great but his return to how he played at the beginning of the year is the exact thing that is maddening. He has no consistency whatsoever.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by cannon7

I don't know why this team won't give Bennett a extended look on either Monahan's or Backlund's line. He gets a few shifts, at most, then back to being saddled with Brouwer. Sure, you could make the argument that he needs to earn that ice-time, but given how that doesn't really apply under Gulutzan -- why not give it a shot?

Brouwer is a turd but blaming him for all of Sam Bennett's woes is just silly. If Bennett is a true top 6 talent, which I don't agree with at this point and time, he wouldn't be going through prolonged stretches of games where he generates nothing shot wise, takes brutal penalties and doesn't seem able to keep the puck on his stick long enough to even make a play. None of this is on Troy Brouwer. Bennett, more often than naught, can't even seem to beat a defenceman out on routine puck battles - he is incredibly weak. Even so, he probably should have been given the second line assignment when Frolik went down in order to see where he stands, but this is telling as to how the coaching staff sees him if they were willing to promote Brouwer instead of him. He certainly has no business usurping Ferland or Frolik from a top 6 role when this team is in the midst of a playoff chase until he proves he can achieve more than the odd game of NHL calibre offensive play.

As it stands now, he is probably the 8th best forward on the team (behind Jankowski). If the team needs to coddle him to produce 30 points, he isn't really helping anyone and should be cut loose via trade (if there is even a taker at this point). If they can get him going to a point where he is contributing 40-50 points and can move up and down the lineup, then yes, you have an asset worth keeping beyond this year imo.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

At least he's not a Strome or a Reinhart.

I’d do a straight up trade Bennett for Reinhart(Buff)

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Yoho

I’d do a straight up trade Bennett for Reinhart

yeah, but why would buffalo?