Sam Bennett Value: Have the Flames held on TOO long? OR is he awesome?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by rhino

Please quantify Hockey IQ..... it’s just a buzz phrase for fans. There are examples all over the league of younger players being played in roles that are not suited for them, cases where they are moved and become productive NHL players. Does Bennett take bad penalties at times.... yes he sure does but I don’t think there is any doubt he has the right attitude and given the right opportunity he would be a more consistent point producer. I think for his career they should move him to a better opportunity if they don’t have room on another line...... square peg and round hole.

It's quite far from a "buzz phrase".

Is it quantifiable? Not by any black and white definition other than something like Cliff already posted.

I mean, without getting to pedantic about it, its something that is readily apparent by watching players make plays...or not.

There is a reason sayings like "he has all the tools but a ten cent toolbox" have arisen and stuck as a way to describe certain players through the years.

Rico Fata may be the best example of a guy like this in Flames history. Lazar is another one that currently puts the flaming C on. Bennett seemingly is the same way far to often.

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by rhino

Please quantify Hockey IQ..... it’s just a buzz phrase for fans. There are examples all over the league of younger players being played in roles that are not suited for them, cases where they are moved and become productive NHL players. Does Bennett take bad penalties at times.... yes he sure does but I don’t think there is any doubt he has the right attitude and given the right opportunity he would be a more consistent point producer. I think for his career they should move him to a better opportunity if they don’t have room on another line...... square peg and round hole.

Not sure how you can trot out that it is just a, "buzz phrase for fans".

Hockey IQ is a huge part of any player in the game. Some guys have it, some don't and it isn't something you can teach.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

Not sure how you can trot out that it is just a, "buzz phrase for fans".

Hockey IQ is a huge part of any player in the game. Some guys have it, some don't and it isn't something you can teach.

It's not a buzz phrase for fans. However, it is overused, and misused. On this forum I've heard that pretty much every Flames player except for Gio, Tkachuk and Johnny (and Jankowski because he's pretty new) has low hockey IQ. This includes Monahan, Backlund, Frolik, Hamilton, Brodie, Hamonic, Ferland and Stajan, all of whom I think have decent to excellent IQ.

[Hackey]

Hockey IQ is a buzz phrase? So what made Gretzky so good?

[Toonage]

Wine.

And whine.

[442scotty]

I would say this, as much as it looks at times that Bennett is a bust, there are games and stretches of games where we see the Bennett we thought we were getting when he was drafted.

So unlike other players who have never shown anything , the fact that Bennett has shown he has the tools to be what we thought we drafted puts him in the same category as people like Ferland, Backlund, Jankowski etc. Players that needed time to mature and find consistency.

Bennett just needs more time, AND TIME WITH QUALITY LINEMATES! They set up Chucky to succeed . WTF are they doing to set up Bennett to succeed ??? It's no wonder the guy is having a hard time. Chucky is ready to spread his wings so maybe put him with Jankowski. Put Bennett back with Backlund.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Bennett's value will never be as low as it is now, Gulutzan suffocated his development and I for one hope for a new coach to bring him back on course.

Only an idiot would trade him now

I don't see how this is GG's fault, at all. What is he supposed to do? Where should he play Bennett that won't adversely affect another player? If he were playing on the 3M line and Tkachuk was on the 3rd line struggling people would claim GG is ruining Tkachuk.

If blame is to be placed anywhere (outside of the player himself) it should be Treliving that takes the heat for not finding decent players for Bennett to play with.

What would you suggest GG do to improve Bennett's situation?

[Love]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It's not a buzz phrase for fans. However, it is overused, and misused. On this forum I've heard that pretty much every Flames player except for Gio, Tkachuk and Johnny (and Jankowski because he's pretty new) has low hockey IQ. This includes Monahan, Backlund, Frolik, Hamilton, Brodie, Hamonic, Ferland and Stajan, all of whom I think have decent to excellent IQ.

I wouldn’t say Frolik or Hamilton are overly smart players. Frolik has ok puck skills coupled with a non-stop motor and Hamilton is a physically gifted giant.

Our high IQ players imo: Tkachuk, Johnny, Monahan, Gio and Backlund.

[delayedreflex]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

Not sure how you can trot out that it is just a, "buzz phrase for fans".



Hockey IQ is a huge part of any player in the game. Some guys have it, some don't and it isn't something you can teach.

I could have sworn that scouts generally thought that Bennett had good hockey IQ (or at least praised his vision and ability to read the play) - is it the case that hockey IQ in junior doesn't necessarily translate to higher levels? Sure makes scouting difficult.


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[Toonage]

Bennett was ranked #1 OA North American skater is his draft year above Ekblad & Reinhart. Plenty of scouts saw a ton of good in him.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Love

I wouldn’t say Frolik or Hamilton are overly smart players. Frolik has ok puck skills coupled with a non-stop motor and Hamilton is a physically gifted giant.

Our high IQ players imo: Tkachuk, Johnny, Monahan, Gio and Backlund.

Weird.

Frolik has exceptional hockey sense.

he isn't the most physically gifted or skilled player, but he thinks the game so well he is a huge asset to any team he has been on.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Bennett was ranked #1 OA North American skater is his draft year above Ekblad & Reinhart. Plenty of scouts saw a ton of good in him.

And that's what makes drafting a crap shoot at times.

he dominated 17 and 18 year olds.

That doesn't necessarily translate into doing the same in the NHL however.

I don't know if he ever figures it out or not, but he isnt looking like a guy who should have been drafted as high as he was, and its not because his skills have eroded.

[Toonage]

Yep. Its not an exact science I suppose. My take: They look at the player's body of work, their leadership qualities, the family background, etc. All the rocks are uncovered. Sometimes they play it safe with a player that checks the boxes rather than one that could have a higher ceiling but they just aren't sure of. When you draft that high (4OA) you probably play it as safe as you can, making the educated choice. BPA and all that.

Perhaps more important though is how you develop the player after. Not everyone can jump right into the NHL. Bennett started his career in the playoffs. Maybe would have been for the best had he not.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Love

I wouldn’t say Frolik or Hamilton are overly smart players. Frolik has ok puck skills coupled with a non-stop motor and Hamilton is a physically gifted giant.

Our high IQ players imo: Tkachuk, Johnny, Monahan, Gio and Backlund.

Both Hamilton and Frolik are high IQ players. Frolik knows where to be, and is rarely out of position. He makes sensible plays (minus his Vegas gaffe). Hamilton is severely underrated here. He makes plenty of subtle, smart plays, passes to the correct place in most cases, and also has a great sense of when to advance and when to retreat. I would say he thinks the game more than he sets his physical gifts.

[edn88]

I don't think that this early on you can say Flames held on to him too long. What were the flames going to do? Trade 19 year old Sam Bennett when he was ripping it up? Back then it looked we had a surefire prospect. Even if he never pans out to anything, you had to keep him for at least a few years. It might mean you get nothing back for him. Prospects work that way. You hope your first rounders work out (they usually do), that your second rounders are useful players (they sometimes do) and that your later rounders turn into something useful or better (Gaudreau anyone?).

Will Bennett have better days ahead of him - too hard to tell.

[Bingo]

Teams need to move from disappointment as to who a player could have been and quickly to what they have now.

Sam Bennett is 21. He has puck skills, can skate and a heaping load of jam. That's a valuable commodity in the NHL. He needs to smooth out the edges of his game so he's more effective but his floor is considerably greater that what they'd fetch in a trade.

Make him into one of the league's best 3rd line players if you have to, but don't dump him because you're disappointed that he may not turn out to be an elite player.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

agree with everything but the draft position comment.

In the context of evaluating the player based on the asset that was originally given up for him, he has not panned out to what he was supposed to be.

I'm not even sure how that's debatable, and I'm not even sure why people can't factor that into the debate as to whether or not the Flames should have moved on the asset sooner.

The further in time you move away from a 4th overall pick that isn't performing, the larger decrease in value. You can't ignore the starting line.

A year ago, was Bennett worth more than he is today? Yes. Unequivocally. That's what this thread is about, isn't it?

It's not debatable - but no, that is not what is being debated.

He was drafted 4th overall, but hasn't progressed so far the way we expected him to. Yes. everyone agrees. Full stop.

But that is completely irrelevant with respect to his current value and what should be done with him. What matters now is: should he be traded, or how do we develop him from here?

What happened 4 years ago is irrelevant. It's like owning Blackberry stock at $14 and lamenting that it used to be worth $200. Who cares? Irrelevant. Only thing that matters is what Blackberry is going to do going forward.

[GioforPM]

Bennett has only had two and a half seasons, so patience is still warranted. He's been disappointing as a 4OA, true, but whatever. Given his relative lack of success, Treliving should extend him right now to the max for a very small raise to $2 to $2.5M, making him one of (a) a super cheap but very good player going forward, (b) really attractive in a trade or (c) not a big concern as a bottom six player.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Teams need to move from disappointment as to who a player could have been and quickly to what they have now.

Sam Bennett is 21. He has puck skills, can skate and a heaping load of jam. That's a valuable commodity in the NHL. He needs to smooth out the edges of his game so he's more effective but his floor is considerably greater that what they'd fetch in a trade.

Make him into one of the league's best 3rd line players if you have to, but don't dump him because you're disappointed that he may not turn out to be an elite player.

Yeah, or trade him to someone who thinks he can still be elite and is prepared to pay. Although that ship has likely sailed.

I don't think anyone is recommending waiving the guy. But what most are saying is that at this point, his value is probably greater to the Flames.

But if someone asks for Bennett to even out the return in a trade that Flames really like, I'm not categorically saying no.

[Shazam]

Trading Bennett would be the Marc Savard thing all over again.

I just remember all the TRADE BACKLUND talk everywhere too.