Justin Trudeau says marijuana should be legalized

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

As was mentioned by pepsi i was responding to someone who was lumping the two together.
What i was arguing earlier was about the fact i think a non smoking apartment complex should be non smoking for anything. No matter if medicinal or not.

I still don't see how they could tell medical users that they can't.

[combustiblefuel]

..

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

I still don't see how they could tell medical users that they can't.

because there are many other ways to take the medication other than smoking? I've yet to meet the person where actually smoking their pot is the ONLY way to successfully manage their medical condition.

I still don't see why people who smoke can't just move to a building where they're allowed to smoke. then there wouldn't be the argument.

I think the people who debate that they should be allowed to smoke in a non smoking building are the ones who want to smoke their pot, not anyone who actually needs to.

[cral12]

"Toronto Police officers eat marijuana edibles on shift.
Officers can't handle the high and call in for emergency assistance.
Responding officer slips and falls on ice."

https://twitter.com/jameswattie/stat...82303267360769

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by cral12

"Toronto Police officers eat marijuana edibles on shift.
Officers can't handle the high and call in for emergency assistance.
Responding officer slips and falls on ice."

https://twitter.com/jameswattie/stat...82303267360769

No way they were halucinating on just weed. Cmon.

[2Stonedbirds]

Higher than a kite in a squad car? Ohhhh you better believe that's a paddlin.
Hallucinations from weed though? Not unless they chased their brownies with a bowl of salvia or something.

[PepsiFree]

Edibles, especially for those who may not be experienced or may not be aware of how much they’re dosing, can absolutely cause hallucinogenic experiences.

Not good, interesting ones either. Edibles can cause extremely disorienting highs. Long gone are the days of buzzy brownies.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Edibles, especially for those who may not be experienced or may not be aware of how much they’re dosing, can absolutely cause hallucinogenic experiences.

Not good, interesting ones either. Edibles can cause extremely disorienting highs. Long gone are the days of buzzy brownies.

Ingesting is a different ballgame. All five of my unpleasant weed experiences involved edibles. You can't shake edible highs off the way you can with vaping/smoking. Once you're in, you're in.

And while outright mushroom hallucinating seems unlikely, I can totally buy that some cops who aren't used to it get a little wobbly, close their eyes, and are treated to some kind of light show.

I really cannot wait until we can get this stuff in stores like sensible folk. Our kids are not going to understand this one at all.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by wwkayaker

On The Fifth Estate tonight, they did a show about impaired driving after marijuana use. The testing method Canada is going to use is a decades old test called DRE—people trained as Drug Recognition Experts. It sounds like the test is not very reliable, very subjective, and takes about an hour for a drug expert to conduct. The government is pumping in millions of dollars to train police officers to become drug recognition experts. The test appears to be more pseudoscience than science. I can’t imagine it will take long before the testing is challenged in the courts. It looks like a poor test, huge waste of money, and time consuming for police forces and the courts.

Yes, the inevitable consequences of Forgetting about DRE...

[CliffFletcher]

So the feds released their study on marijuana pricing, and it turns out the average current user pays less than $7 a gram. The news took the wind right out the of the sails of the Canadian marijuana market, which was basing its fundamentals on a $10/gram price point.

Looks like Terry isn't going out of business anytime soon.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

So the feds released their study on marijuana pricing, and it turns out the average current user pays less than $7 a gram. The news took the wind right out the of the sails of the Canadian marijuana market, which was basing its fundamentals on a $10/gram price point.

Looks like Terry isn't going out of business anytime soon.

On Friday, the government’s statistics agency released new data that shows Canadian marijuana costs C$6.85 ($5.53) a gram. Earlier estimates suggest weed prices have been falling in recent years as illegal producers boosted output in recent years, potentially cutting into the revenue for publicly traded companies that hope to tap into the new market.

Concern that companies are overvalued has helped spark the decline, Zandberg said. While some of the periphery cannabis stocks will probably not survive in the long term, there is enough demand in Canada to transfer over to a legalized market and the industry leaders will thrive, he said.

“People are panicking because they are losing their money,” Chris Damas, editor of the BCMI Cannabis Report, said in an email. “Stocks are in bear market territory.”

Friday morning’s selling is probably the peak and stocks will likely stabilize from here, Damas said in a note. Still, the Canadian cannabis shares have been overbought and have probably seen their highs for the year, he said.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ine&yptr=yahoo

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

So the feds released their study on marijuana pricing, and it turns out the average current user pays less than $7 a gram. The news took the wind right out the of the sails of the Canadian marijuana market, which was basing its fundamentals on a $10/gram price point.

Looks like Terry isn't going out of business anytime soon.

Terry is on life support if not already out of business in B.C. and it's not even legal yet. The only Terry that's going to stay in business is the the one that sells to under aged kids.

[jayswin]

Lol, I'm enjoying following CliffFletcher's insistence that legalized marijuana won't completely minimize and effectively cancel out the need and desire for illegal dealers. There's nothing that will convince him until it happens.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Lol, I'm enjoying following CliffFletcher's insistence that legalized marijuana won't completely minimize and effectively cancel out the need and desire for illegal dealers. There's nothing that will convince him until it happens.

I was just echoing what the analysts who put together the business report on the CBC said on Friday. Alberta government regulators have also commented that they need to get age restrictions and price right, or the legal retailers will still be competing with the black market. So it's not an opinion unique to me.

Maybe it's just the people I know who are regular users, but they aren't going to pay 30 per cent more for their pot just for the convenience of buying it at a legitimate store. The government seems to think so too, which is why they're conducting studies into street prices in the first place.

[PepsiFree]

Being competitive isn’t about just beating a price, it’s about justifying value, and the government seems to know that as well.

To say that Terry is going to continue to compete with a legal industry is just far fetched. What’s the historic precedent for it?

Quality product produced in a properly controlled environment, a regulated market, outside of black market reach with the option to have it delivered to your home, go into a shop, or grow your own is going to beat out Terry 9/10 times.

And if Terry gets beat out 9/10 times, eventually Terry is going to find something else to do.

I won’t question your sources of regular users, but if we’re being anecdotal, out of the dozens of people I’ve talked to I haven’t met one who is actually considering continuing to buy on the black market.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Maybe it's just the people I know who are regular users, but they aren't going to pay 30 per cent more for their pot just for the convenience of buying it at a legitimate store. The government seems to think so too, which is why they're conducting studies into street prices in the first place.

I think it's just the people you know, most people i know have got their medical prescription or get their weed from someone who does. The convenience of having it shipped right to you door plus not having to meet up with someone sketchy vastly out weighs the extra cost.

And I just checked prices from my provider. Everything is between $7.20 and $8.50 a gram except for one blend on sale for $4. Free shipping on any orders over 30 grams.

Is Terry going out of business? Maybe not as you can still find contraband cigarettes and people make illegal alcohol too. But is 95% of the market going to move into the legal space? Probably, unless the government makes laws that make access excessively restrictive. *cough*Ontario*cough*

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Being competitive isn’t about just beating a price, it’s about justifying value, and the government seems to know that as well.

To say that Terry is going to continue to compete with a legal industry is just far fetched. What’s the historic precedent for it?

Quality product produced in a properly controlled environment, a regulated market, outside of black market reach with the option to have it delivered to your home, go into a shop, or grow your own is going to beat out Terry 9/10 times.

And if Terry gets beat out 9/10 times, eventually Terry is going to find something else to do.

I won’t question your sources of regular users, but if we’re being anecdotal, out of the dozens of people I’ve talked to I haven’t met one who is actually considering continuing to buy on the black market.

Why would anyone, even if the risk is very remote, buy on the black market when they can buy a quality controlled product for 2 bucks more. That seems insane.

This is somewhat akin to illegal streaming and pirated movies. They were ubiquitous and then apple, google, spotify made it affordable and easy so people were willing to pay a bit more for a quality product that was simple to access without dealing with the shady parts of the internet and getting a virus.

Do people still stream? Sure. Is it super prevalent? No because they aren't reliable. And people aren't trying to make money off of streaming.

Add in Terry's capital cost and the risk of going to jail for dealing illegally and why would Terry stay in business? Why wouldn't terry just go legal, not risk jail and open a store?

[Coach]

I can buy $3 grams at the dispensary blocks from my house.

I can also buy $13 grams.

I can also buy what is considered some of the best green here from a dealer who is a friend of a friend. But I don't.

Terry gives you one choice. And Terry has never sold to me at less than $10/g at best, unless I want to buy $500 worth of pot off of him at once.

Terry also doesn't have vaporizers, edibles, pain creams, pre-rolls, know anything more than the name of the strand he's giving you. Terry won't sell me $20 worth of weed. Nor does he have a punch card app that gives me 20% off every tenth purchase. Yes, there are deals and sales on marijuana, like any other product.

The idea that people will continue to go to dealers is just silly. People just look at math and prices and assume people will go with whats lower (even if that research is arguable) and ignore consumer behavior.

[CliffFletcher]

People need to take a step back and why pot was legalized in the first place. One of the reasons was that criminalizing pot was meant to suppress use. Four decades of widespread use proved that was a failed strategy - virtually everyone in Canada in 2012 who wanted to smoke pot could smoke pot.

Of course people who are occasional users who have to buy from a guy who knows a guy found it inconvenient. And those are the people who will benefit most from legalization. But long-term heavy users had regular and trusted suppliers. They get all the pot they need at a good price and with no stress today. They aren't buying from a guy parked outside the French Maid. They're buying from their friends. People on their hockey teams. Their neighbours. And they're often buying in large volume, so it's cheap.

And keep in mind that the dispensaries that are selling pot today in the mail are operating illegally, and the government plans to shut them down. When legal retail comes on-stream it will be more expensive than these mail dispensaries.

Legalization of marijuana unlikely to kill Canada’s black market right away

...“There’s a huge, complex system out there operating in the world that has been delivering excellent product to people at reasonable prices for 40 years now,” says Donald MacPherson, the executive director of the Canadian Drug Policy Coalition, an organization based out of Simon Fraser University that advocates for evidence-based policy-making and harm-reduction strategies.

“It’s really the degree to which the regulated system can, over a period of years, encroach on as much of that pre-existing market as possible – that is the key question.”

Cannabis producers skeptical of whether Ontario’s plan can compete with black market

...He went on to say that because of the expected pricing at $10 per gram, and the lack of variety in the products offered by LCBO-run stores, regular cannabis users are more likely to continue getting their products on the black market, where they always have.

“It really will depend on how it rolls out. It will take longer to tackle or put a dent in the black market given the proposed distribution,” Zavet said.

“The amount of stores is not going to be enough, it’s not going to be convenient for people. There’s still going to be a lot of product in the grey area that people are not licensed to grow and not licensed to distribute.”

Federal government targets black – and grey – markets with legal cannabis

Ms. Petitpas Taylor said the illegal market for cannabis will not disappear with the flick of a switch, but that everyone should work together to better protect young Canadians and remove criminal elements from the production chain.

"The system is not going to be perfect in July, 2018," she said. "With respect to the black market, we certainly want to make a dent in it. Do we think it will happen overnight? Absolutely not."

Why Ontario’s pot plan will keep the black market alive

...The price and taxation of legal marijuana is another important component of stamping out illicit sales, and that still has to be determined. Finding a balance will be challenging. If the price is too low, governments will be seen as encouraging people to take up pot. Too high, and users will stick to illicit sources. The regulatory and operating costs of the country’s existing licensed producers add to the price of marijuana compared to illicit growers, and the Ontario government’s proposed retail model comes with its own set of costs. Private operators, in contrast, compete with one another and have a built-in incentive to keep prices and costs low.

If governments compete on price, illegal growers and retailers could respond by dropping their own prices. “The illicit market will protect its share,” says Chris Damas, editor of an investment newsletter called the BCMI Report, which analyzes marijuana stocks. The quality of cannabis from illicit producers is just as good—if not better—than what licensed producers are offering, he says, presenting another challenge. Damas estimates about half of illicit sales at most will move to legal channels within the first year.

[Coach]

Again the assumption is all based on price. "Because of the expected pricing at $10/g".

As a "long term heavy user" that spent almost decade buying from multiple dealers and friends around Calgary, I have never spent less than $10/g. AND as someone who hangs out with a bunch of other regular long term heavy users, it's pretty much unanimous to buy from a dispensary. Even the guys who have best buds who are dealers who will give them medical grade weed for street prices still buy from dispensaries, because you know what, Terry isn't always around. And he doesn't always have what we want.

Consumer behavior. Not just math.

I've asked this in here before, would you go buy your liquor of choice from your buddy, arrange a time to meet, hang out at his place, buy way more liquor than you actually want, for potentially 10% less than you would at the store you can walk to?

People won't even clip coupons for 10% savings.