Treliving needs to start feeling the heat

[killer_carlson]

Do we have any indication that any of our media has put questions to Treliving about the powerplay or current state of the team?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

After acquiring Hamonic and drafting Valimaki I fully expected Brodie to be traded for a good scoring winger, Does anyone really believe that Rasmus Andersson would have that many more brain farts as Brodie this year that the extra scoring winger wouldn't make up the difference? I truly believe if this team had another pure shooter on the PP(and a PP coach) we would have at least 4-5 more wins

If this team misses the playoffs Treliving should be fired for not managing his strengths to fix his weaknesses, and I hope he takes the $3 million a year for nothing blowhard with him

What? No one that I ever heard of thought that was in the plans. Hamonic was brought in as the guy who could enhance Brodie's game. In fact, everyone thought that the Hamonic add (which I still think was good) would result in Calgary's D being a pretty elite corps. Removing Brodie would have just removed that.

As it turns out Brodie has had a bad year.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I would return Hamonic to the Isles for those picks in a heartbeat if i could.

Hamonic is a useful player but the price was steep. Those picks should have returned a player who could make more of an impact vs. #4 defenseman. Particularly based on how the Flames seem to use their defensemen.

Flames team D has been outstanding since early December, as has their PK.

That has a lot to do with Hamonic IMO.

They have the 5th ranked PK since December 5th, and have given up the 2nd fewest goals per game (since that same time) with 46 in 23 games. Boston has 45 in 23 games, and Nashville 45 in just 21 games.

Personally I hope they find a way to score more goals without tearing the D core apart, it's doing it's job very well.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Flames team D has been outstanding since early December, as has their PK.

That has a lot to do with Hamonic IMO.

They have the 5th ranked PK since December 5th, and have given up the 2nd fewest goals per game (since that same time) with 46 in 23 games. Boston has 45 in 23 games, and Nashville 45 in just 21 games.

Personally I hope they find a way to score more goals without tearing the D core apart, it's doing it's job very well.

at the expense of the offense from the defense drying up compared to previous years.
I think someone posted number sin another thread and the flames are on pace to have about 25% less points coming from the D compared to last year.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Do we have any indication that any of our media has put questions to Treliving about the powerplay or current state of the team?

It's been asked of the coach because largely the PP is his responsibility.
I'm somewhat unsure why people want these questions asked. The answers will be typically vague and rather useless to get any insight about the team. BT in particular plays everything very close to his chest. He isn't going to reveal anything.
What type of answer would folks expect to hear that would satisfy them but is also realistic?
Interviews with hockey players, coaches and Gms are generally completely without value.

[Toonage]

I think people want to see pressure put on the coaching staff/management, if for no other reason than to feel like something is being done about a problem they have zero control over. Mitigate that feeling of helplessness as a fan.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Toonage

I think people want to see pressure put on the coaching staff/management, if for no other reason than to feel like something is being done about a problem they have zero control over. Mitigate that feeling of helplessness as a fan.

I get that. But I don't know that it needs to be done publicly. I imagine that pressure is on though.
Short of BT coming out and saying "Boy our PP sucks, I'm going to demand GG fire Dave Cameron" I don't know what would satisfy the masses.
I thought GG's responses about the powerplay yesterday, and how it is costing them, were pretty on point.
To which a lot of fans will say "THEN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT".
Which is why I go back to the original point - hockey interviews are useless. Utterly useless.

[Toonage]

I have no doubt something will be done, but the fear is that they'll end up sacrificing this season before they do it.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Flames team D has been outstanding since early December, as has their PK.

That has a lot to do with Hamonic IMO.

They have the 5th ranked PK since December 5th, and have given up the 2nd fewest goals per game (since that same time) with 46 in 23 games. Boston has 45 in 23 games, and Nashville 45 in just 21 games.

Personally I hope they find a way to score more goals without tearing the D core apart, it's doing it's job very well.

I think the goaltenders have as much or more to do with those numbers than the defense group while playing better as this team is still sloppy at times in their end. They are getting bailed out a lot.

[Stay Golden]

Treliving's greatest strength as Flames GM JMO is knowing his players market value and signing players to team favorable contracts. Excluding Brouwer's deal.

His greatest weakness is hiring coaches and his evaluation of them. His approach to Gulutzan and Cameron parallels the City's approach to maintenance of snow removal of residential streets do nothing let nature eventually melt the snow and hope they don't ice over.
Well as we have experienced do nothing when they do ice over it becomes a much bigger problem.

Treliving approach to Gilly and Cameron is to do nothing. He is a good GM in certain aspects but somebody like Burke has to force his hand on filtering out these hacks behind the bench.

[Toonage]

The weird thing about Cameron is that he was interviewed to be the head coach and then just sort of stuck around and got the associate gig. Its like he refused to leave and the Flames felt bad about it and the whole situation was awkward so they just let him stay. A little like Milton from Office Space.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

I get that. But I don't know that it needs to be done publicly. I imagine that pressure is on though.
Short of BT coming out and saying "Boy our PP sucks, I'm going to demand GG fire Dave Cameron" I don't know what would satisfy the masses.
I thought GG's responses about the powerplay yesterday, and how it is costing them, were pretty on point.
To which a lot of fans will say "THEN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT".
Which is why I go back to the original point - hockey interviews are useless. Utterly useless.

I heard the guys on 960 making fun of what he said, and couldn't understand it. He was exactly right about what the PP can do (or not do). Of course, he's not going to get into detail about the specific problems, especially without a coaching session.

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by Toonage

The weird thing about Cameron is that he was interviewed to be the head coach and then just sort of stuck around and got the associate gig. Its like he refused to leave and the Flames felt bad about it and the whole situation was awkward so they just let him stay. A little like Milton from Office Space.

Lol that's good reduce Cameron's cubicle to where he can't function take away his stapler and then put him in the basement in a broom closet

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Itse

You seemed to have missed the point of my argument, which was that the results the depth forwards get has a everything to do with coaching.

Hartley got a lot of points out of a relatively ragtag group because he was a good coach and knew how to utilize them.

Gulutzan gets nothing out of his depth players (that I would argue are actually better), because he's not a good coach.

I just don't get how anyone could arrive at this answer.

Hartley's 14-15 team (I'm helping you by picking his best season) had everything go right. They were completely outplayed, came from behind, and even when you dig into individual player data you get the lightning in a bottle answer.

The fourth line shot at 12.6%. That's crazy!
The bottom six (3rd, 4th and depth) shot at 8.7% which is above NHL average.

When you look at possession the bottom six had 44% of the shot attempts, 46% of the shots, and 44% of the scoring chances. They got completely owned. The top two lines had slashes of 46/47/44 and 43/46/48, they were also run over in any single metric you'd like to pick.

The Flames this year just can't finish. The team has young players in many key situations and they're not putting the puck in the net despite outplaying the opposition.

17/18 Slashes
1st line - 54/52/55
2nd line - 53/51/54
3rd line - 52/52/55
4th line - 51/51/55
Depth - 48/47/55

That's very consistent, and clearly points to a system and structure that has the team playing well throughout the lineup.

But they can't score ...

Shooting percentages
1st line - 11.2%
2nd line - 11.9%
3rd line - 7.4%
4th line - 3.2%
Depth - 4.2%

Hartley's 14/15 team in comparison ...

Shooting percentages
1st line - 13.5%
2nd line - 12.7%
3rd line - 8.2%
4th line - 12.6%
Depth - 5.6%

Nothing points to Hartley being a better coach.

[Tinordi]

Yes please god let this revisionist history of Hartley hockey die.

Hartley was terrible, his team's were terrible, if you look into anything stat besides goals for when the goalie was pulled you would see that chest as day.

Get a grip, pining for Hartley hockey only demonstrates your vast ignorance.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Scoring dept is a problem for sure. But as someone pointed out, there can be more than one problem.

Also, I am not suggesting that Stajan or Lazar would score 20 goals in a different environment or anything like that, but I do think it is a valid question to ask how much of the lack of scoring from the bottom 6 is a function of the style of play?

They don't go to the net. They don't forecheck aggressively. They don't pinch much. They play a very careful style and try not to lose.

And it hurts their offence.

Here are the points from defensemen over the last 4 years:

2014/15: 195
2015/16: 203
2016/17: 176
2017/18: 133 (pace)

So either our defencemen, as a group, are getting a lot less talented offensively, or there is something different about the way they are playing and how they are being utilized.

I think almost everyone on here would agree that the current group is the most talented of the 4 years (certainly not the least), so there has to be something else at play.

The bottom 6 scored just fine last season though. I'm personally not suggesting the Stajan needs to become a half point per game player here, I'm just saying do what you did last season under Gulutzan. He had 23 points last season in a similar role, he's on pace 4. It'd be nice to have an additional 7-8 points from him which would definitely result in more wins and thus these boards wouldn't be going overboard right now with all the firing and run players out of town talk.

I agree, points by defensemen have dropped, but overall goals are similar to in years past. So it looks like goals have been shifted more to the forwards than the defense which is fine by me as long as the goals are being scored. But obviously right now we're having issues with that and to me, it's an execution problem from our bottom 6. They've blown so many good chances this season. I mean, Darren Haynes just tweeted that Stajan and Lazar have scored one goal in a combined 13 hours of play. Does that sound ok to anyone? Not me.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I'm generally pleased with the Hamonic trade. It doesn't bug me, but I do agree with the bold part.

We've invested a lot into our defence, but with how the system is structured, we don't play our d-men to their strengths. We simply have them fill in structured spots.

Giordano is Calgary LHD-Man #1.
Brodie is Calgary LHD-Man #2.
Kulak/Bartkowski is Calgary LHD-Man #3.

Hamilton is Calgary RHD-Man #1.
Hamonic is Calgary RHD-Man #2.
Stone is Calgary RHD-Man #3.

They fill pre-defined roles that aren't structured around getting the most out of the players, which bugs me to no end.

Interesting, what are you suggesting?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

I think understanding the impact of dmen, particularly stay at home guys, is among the toughest things to evaluate as a fan.
I think he's been more solid in the last 20 games or so.
And part of the reason for the asking price was his contract.
I don't love the deal. Frankly I don't love any deal where 1sts are given up. But I understand why the deal was made.

Agree with all of his, and in general I think Hamonic has been reasonably solid. But overall, it seems to me the D is not compensating for the lack of forward depth, which I kind of thought was the plan.

In general, I think you trade your high value picks when you think the acquired player turns you into a championship contender. I just believe the Flames are too far from that at the moment to make this kind of deal, unless the player you acquire is elite. And I don't hear smart hockey people calling Hamonic elite.

No doubt the Flames are better with Hamonic even though it has yet to translate into actual results. Now to make any kind of impact trade, the Flames have to weaken their roster which already isn't great. BT is the same GM that picked up a useful defenseman like Schlemko. I know you can't wave your arms and conjure up deals like that one, but would have preferred a pickup like that given where the team was. I still would.

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Interesting, what are you suggesting?

Reunite Gio and Brodie in the hopes Brodie can get back to what he once was, pair Dougie and Travis letting Dougie roam a bit more and use his offensive talent, keep third pairing the same.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I think the goaltenders have as much or more to do with those numbers than the defense group while playing better as this team is still sloppy at times in their end. They are getting bailed out a lot.

Not by the numbers.

Up to December 5th the Flames were giving up 8.0 scoring chances per game, but since then they've decreased those chances by 10% sitting 7.2 per game, shot attempts and shots are pretty neutral.

8.0 against per night is a middling team (14th), while 7.2 is a top two or three team in terms of what they're giving up.

Smith has been great, but so too has the team defense.