[PGT] Golden Knights 4 - Flames 2

[Karl]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I dunno. Gulutzan agreed that it was a pass. Didn’t call it a good one.

If it was a pass, Smith, who loves to play the puck should be alert.
If you want to call it a shot, it was a muffin and Smith’s rebound placement was atrocious.

I think that what I will call a pass surprised Smith and I think he was caught napping. And I think he played it wrong as a result. And I think that his reaction reflected that.

We can agree to disagree.

I agree that you're wrong!

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by zamler

Fine, the collective on CP wins. GG made the right choice the loss was a total fluke and could not have been prevented. No way the Flames could have got the game to OT, a timeout would have made no difference at all. There was no need to settle the club down after a terrible gaffe.

Wow ...

People that disagree with you have lost their minds and you're now fighting a CP collective?

If you need to go there in an argument it might be time to have a healthy look at what you're shoving out there. May not be as air tight as you think.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

While your take on Gulutzan's reasoning for sending him right back out there is likely spot on, there's still no consideration made for the emotion in that equation. That, and the fact that it was another momentum swing in the opposite direction. Sure, Frolik is normally, on any given day, one of your most reliable defensive wingers out there. So Gulutzan played the numbers game. He blindly sends out 3M + Gio / Dougie and hoped it would be enough to at least finish the game strongly.

However, the gravity of the situation here matters as he'd just coughed away the lead in a game that the Flames had under control, and did so with an incredibly uncharacteristic mistake that isn't acceptable at even youth hockey levels.

Sending them back out there is not the problem. Sending them back out there shell-shocked is the real issue. If you're going to put Frolik right back out there, call the timeout first so everyone has a bit of room to clear their heads and focus on finishing the game out. Not just that line either that needed it, the entire team was clinging by a toenail after the tying goal. Dougie made a bad decision, Gio played the 1 on 1 terribly, and Smith didn't seem to know how to play the angle at all.

Glen needs to be a better leader and manage the emotional flow of a game as well rather than try to spend the whole time outsmarting the guy across the bench.

Who "blindly" goes with the best defense pairing in the NHL and the second best possession line in the circuit?

That's going with your best, the five guys on the team least likely to be rattled.

I would have thrown something at my TV if he put out Stone/Kulak/Lazar/Stajan and Hathaway, but I'm never going to be upset if a coach loses using his best.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Who "blindly" goes with the best defense pairing in the NHL and the second best possession line in the circuit?

That's going with your best, the five guys on the team least likely to be rattled.

I would have thrown something at my TV if he put out Stone/Kulak/Lazar/Stajan and Hathaway, but I'm never going to be upset if a coach loses using his best.

But it happened. They got rattled and Fro-yo messed up. At least, maybe keep Backlund & Tkachuk out there, but take Frolik out (for accountability's sake) and put any other forward in Frolik's spot after he messed up.

I mean , as good as Frolik is it doesn't matter at that point because that really was such a brain dead mistake that he should've been sat after that.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

While your take on Gulutzan's reasoning for sending him right back out there is likely spot on, there's still no consideration made for the emotion in that equation. That, and the fact that it was another momentum swing in the opposite direction. Sure, Frolik is normally, on any given day, one of your most reliable defensive wingers out there. So Gulutzan played the numbers game. He blindly sends out 3M + Gio / Dougie and hoped it would be enough to at least finish the game strongly.

However, the gravity of the situation here matters as he'd just coughed away the lead in a game that the Flames had under control, and did so with an incredibly uncharacteristic mistake that isn't acceptable at even youth hockey levels.

Sending them back out there is not the problem. Sending them back out there shell-shocked is the real issue. If you're going to put Frolik right back out there, call the timeout first so everyone has a bit of room to clear their heads and focus on finishing the game out. Not just that line either that needed it, the entire team was clinging by a toenail after the tying goal. Dougie made a bad decision, Gio played the 1 on 1 terribly, and Smith didn't seem to know how to play the angle at all.

Glen needs to be a better leader and manage the emotional flow of a game as well rather than try to spend the whole time outsmarting the guy across the bench.

Add this to the list of terrible coaching mistakes. After the season and the inevitable firing of GG I don't see any NHL general manager touching him ever again.

And just once I would like to see GG admit responsibility for something. Even if he doesn't believe it (and there is no way he does, being a classic narcissist) maybe publicly fall on your sword once for the good of the team?

[zamler]

If anyone thinks the coach should have simply assumed that Frolik would be his 100% old self on his first game back after a broken jaw, then I don't know what else to say.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Who "blindly" goes with the best defense pairing in the NHL and the second best possession line in the circuit?

That's going with your best, the five guys on the team least likely to be rattled.

Like I implied, that is indeed your best 5-man unit. But they were all rattled. Down to the goalie.

Whose feet do you blame that at, if your alleged best 5-man unit are playing like the lot of them got clocked clean by a good punch?

[colbym72]

Originally Posted by zamler

If anyone thinks the coach should have simply assumed that Frolik would be his 100% old self on his first game back after a broken jaw, then I don't know what else to say.

I dont think the coach assumes anyone would pass the puck on their own net

[zamler]

Originally Posted by colbym72

I dont think the coach assumes anyone would pass the puck on their own net

A tired player is more likely to make an error. If you don't think players coming back from long layoffs are more likely to be fatigued late in a game then I'd like to hear your reasons.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Who "blindly" goes with the best defense pairing in the NHL and the second best possession line in the circuit?

That's going with your best, the five guys on the team least likely to be rattled.

I would have thrown something at my TV if he put out Stone/Kulak/Lazar/Stajan and Hathaway, but I'm never going to be upset if a coach loses using his best.

I get your reasoning but Frolik may not get my vote for "least likely to be rattled" after what had just happened.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I get your reasoning but Frolik may not get my vote for "least likely to be rattled" after what had just happened.

He was also "least at fault" for the third goal. He pressed the puck up the ice.

Hamilton stepped up at the line
Backlund and Tkachuk were flat footed and couldn't catch him.
But Giordano was the guy that misplayed the play the worst.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

He was also "least at fault" for the third goal. He pressed the puck up the ice.

Hamilton stepped up at the line
Backlund and Tkachuk were flat footed and couldn't catch him.
But Giordano was the guy that misplayed the play the worst.

Well frankly that just makes me feel worse.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Who "blindly" goes with the best defense pairing in the NHL and the second best possession line in the circuit?

That's going with your best, the five guys on the team least likely to be rattled.

I would have thrown something at my TV if he put out Stone/Kulak/Lazar/Stajan and Hathaway, but I'm never going to be upset if a coach loses using his best.

No one disputes that they are, statisticly, the best 5 man unit to put out there.

But that is precisely why we shouldn't always rely on statistics to make our decisions. Hockey is an emotional game. Every single person in the building could feel the players' shoulders slump, could feel the momentum turn on them, and could feel the inevitability of the collapse.

You have to call the timeout there. You have to do something.

Gulutzan - AGAIN - simply allowed fate/emotion/momentum to roll over him and the team, without so much as an attempt to do anything about it.

And that gets to the heart of why this team is so emotionally fragile and weak.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Bingo

He was also "least at fault" for the third goal. He pressed the puck up the ice.

Hamilton stepped up at the line
Backlund and Tkachuk were flat footed and couldn't catch him.
But Giordano was the guy that misplayed the play the worst.

Yeah, the 3rd goal wasn't on Frolik. The 3rd goal was on all 6 of them because they weren't ready to play. Again, every single person in the building could see and feel the emotional let-down.

Statistics have absolutely nothing to do with that.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yeah, the 3rd goal wasn't on Frolik. The 3rd goal was on all 6 of them because they weren't ready to play. Again, every single person in the building could see and feel the emotional let-down.

Statistics have absolutely nothing to do with that.

Agree, we were all in shock. I was still looking at the Jumbo-Tron when VGK scored the third goal. Maybe Gio and Smith were too...

[dino7c]

3rd goal doesn't happen without the second...it was a monumental #### up.

We can go back and forth...Frolik makes the simple play and we are likely talking about a massive win. Time to move on. Win tomorrow, 1-1 against the leagues two top teams is a decent week.

[colbym72]

Originally Posted by zamler

A tired player is more likely to make an error. If you don't think players coming back from long layoffs are more likely to be fatigued late in a game then I'd like to hear your reasons.

I agree with that. But I am saying we don't know for sure IF Frolik was actually tired and that caused a mistake, or he just messed up because sometimes players just mess up and there isn't some related causation. It was a freak play.

[colbym72]

This will be the game that causes some anger within the team and rallies them for the rest of the year. Go Flames Go.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by colbym72

I agree with that. But I am saying we don't know for sure IF Frolik was actually tired and that caused a mistake, or he just messed up because sometimes players just mess up and there isn't some related causation. It was a freak play.

I frankly think Frolik had too much adrenaline on that play and his mind raced just a bit. I think he tried to be fancy and get the puck to Smith or Brodie, either of whom could make a positive play up ice. A poor decision, compounded by an apparent lack of communication (I think just calling for one of those guys before firing it to them would have made a difference). I actually thought, before I saw the Knight in the frame, that it was going to be a neat play to Smith.

[Tron_fdc]

I want to hold on to the hope that they are playing better and showing more than what we saw during their "losing" streak, and are ready to go on a win streak.

Was it Keenan that said you see teams on the tail end of a winning streak that get lucky goals and somehow win. That's what Vegas got last night.

You also see teams coming out of a slump that get unlucky breaks, and should be getting better results based on their play. That's what Calgary got.

Let's hope Vegas starts to stumble and we go on a roll. No idea if the underlying numbers support that, but I want to think we are ready to start putting a few games together and move up in the standings. It's time to start playing well and peaking for playoffs.