2017/2018 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by JayP

It may actually be personnel based. Our forward group is lacking right handed shots with any semblance of skill. There's a reason why when Versteeg got hurt that the powerplay fell apart. It wasn't because Versteeg's amazing ability was the lynch pin, it was because he was the only right handed option available.

Right now, our top unit consists of all left handed shots. They may all individually have the talent to be on an effective powerplay unit, but as a group it's hard to overcome the lack of options you have when you don't have a mix of lefties and righties. Especially when it's Backlund filling the slot Versteeg played and he isn't much of a one timer threat. The opposing PK tends to tighten things up on Gaudreau's side and give Backlund space to shoot, which isn't his forte.

I'm not sure there is a fix on the Flames roster right now. They should try Hamilton on the top powerplay unit in Backlund's slot. But that just leaves 5 lefties on the second unit and you aren't that much better off.

This is where the Lazar trade is really hurting the Flames. Clearly they thought he was going to be the answer as a right-handed offensive threat that the team desperately needs and he's been a total dud. With Brouwer being a complete bust of a free agent signing too, the Flames have no options for right handed forwards.

No they didn't. From day 1 they said Lazar was a project and they had to correct his development. He wasn't brought in to be an offensive threat - also, his play has been strong as of late and has never been given a shot on the PP. I'm not saying he deserves it or that he'd help, but with how bloody awful it has been the fact that the coaches even refuse to use Dougie Hamilton on the top unit is beyond maddening.

This was just one hell of a stretch to try and pile on a kid who is actively developing at the NHL level, albeit in a limited role.

[Poe969]

Lazar is not a problem on the Flames. He's already turned into a pretty decent 4th line guy who provides energy. He did pretty much do all of the work on Stajan's goal but won't get that much credit for it. The issues with the Flames are at the top/middle of the lineup, that's where they need to improve

[Ozy_Flame]

Treliving saw Lazar as a project and was playing the long game. This is why he was benched most of last year when he arrived (to take a proverbial break and correct his trajectory), and has been playing limited minutes. To be honest, he's better than where he was at the beginning of the season. Also, Lazar's shooting percentage is way down compared to his time in Ottawa, and averaging 4 minutes less per game, likely because of his limited ice time and checking-centric role that he has converted to performing in Calgary.

He was certainly not brought in to provide an immediate top-six role - but there was obviously hope that that was what he will turn into. It may not happen, but I am not sure 36 games played into a season where the whole team seems to be struggling at times is a long enough assessment. Also, are we going to pile on Lazar at his age and draft year when we are still holding out hope for Klimchuk (and to a lesser extent Poirier) to make the team? If anything, Lazar is a more sure-fire NHL'er in a bottom six role compared to those two at this point.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Lazar is not a problem on the Flames. He's already turned into a pretty decent 4th line guy who provides energy. He did pretty much do all of the work on Stajan's goal but won't get that much credit for it. The issues with the Flames are at the top/middle of the lineup, that's where they need to improve

Effort is never a problem with Lazar. No one can fault him for that. In fact effort isn't a problem for the 4th line in general. Unfortunately the talent is a massive problem, a HUGE problem.

That 4th line is a huge problem, and will continue to be if they continue to do next to sweet f-all offensively. There's no getting around that.

Until the 4th line (any of those guys) can actually produce some offense more than just when hell freezes over, this team will be a long shot to make the playoffs.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Karl

Effort is never a problem with Lazar. No one can fault him for that. In fact effort isn't a problem for the 4th line in general. Unfortunately the talent is a massive problem, a HUGE problem.

That 4th line is a huge problem, and will continue to be if they continue to be able to produce next to sweet f-all offensively. There's no getting around that.

Until the 4th line (any of those guys) can actually produce some offense more than just when hell freezes over, this team will be a long shot to make the playoffs.

The 4th line is fine. They don't score but they do a good enough job keeping the puck out of the net.

The issue is the 3rd line. Bennett accidentally scored last night. He now has 3 points in his last 16 games. These guys also play on the 2nd pp unit. They are god awful at that too.

3rd line is also young so in time they will be fine IMO. Problem will be is will Giordano and Smith still be good when they figure it out? Or do you make a move sacrificing future to win now when Giordano and Smith are playing elite hockey?

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

The issue is the 3rd line. Bennett accidentally scored last night. He now has 3 points in his last 16 games. These guys also play on the 2nd pp unit. They are god awful at that too.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Ferland
Tkachuk - Backlund - Frolik
Bennett - Jankowski - Hoffman
Lomberg - Lazar - Hathaway - just haul ass, hit and grind.

Yep, no place left on the roster for Brouwer or Stajan. Hoffman's introduction should not mean Brouwer returns to the 4th line because while he was there, it got it's teeth kicked in.

[Poe969]

If this team's playoff hopes fall on the fourth line, they're already doomed. Good teams don't look at their fourth line for scoring, if they score it's good but they don't depend on it. The team's other lines aren't doing well. The first line is doing well because of Johnny but the other 2 seem to take too many days off. The third line is a huge question mark, Bennett was supposed to be part of the core moving forward and he just hasn't improved much at all, Janko came in and looked pretty good but he's been pretty invisible since.

The team needs help on the second and third line and a little more help on the first wouldn't hurt either.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Gaudreau - Monahan - Ferland
Tkachuk - Backlund - Frolik
Bennett - Jankowski - Hoffman
Lomberg - Lazar - Hathaway - just haul ass, hit and grind.

Yep, no place left on the roster for Brouwer or Stajan. Hoffman's introduction should not mean Brouwer returns to the 4th line because while he was there, it got it's teeth kicked in.

I like this idea. I'd be ok with Brouwer in and Lomberg out too but IMO the Flames are set up to win now. Everyone freaks out when you lose a bad game like that but they also have 1 regulation loss in a month. 4 losses in 3 on 3 or shoout out hockey. To me that isn't real hockey and neither happen in the playoffs

Trevling has done a great job signing his core to great contracts. This has set him up for a potential big move. They are a pretty good team right now who is very tough to score against. Just need more goals. Basically have 2 very bad lines right now but IMO 1 could become good if Bennett and Jankowski added a true scoring threat to their line. Someone with speed and a good shot

[JayP]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I'm not sure a trigger man on the right side of a PP needs to be right handed. I get the importance in other aspects, especially D transition and for forwards entering a zone and protecting the puck, but for a one timer, a LH shot on the right side is not a bad thing.

http://www.nhlspecialteams.com/blog/...the-power-play

I agree, but the replacing a rightie on the right flank with a leftie completely changes the structure of the powerplay. When you have two players on their strong side on the flanks (like Gaudreau and Versteeg) then your powerplay has to be about quick puck movement and opening up lanes (since it's much easier to move the puck on your strong side). When you are forced to shift to a strong side/weak side flank, then that weak side flank really has to be a one timer threat. Otherwise you are losing that quick puck movement ability without any real benefit.

This can easily be effective (although you'd like to see at least one other rightie on the unit somewhere), but to play the weak side flank on the powerplay you have to be a dangerous shooting option and Backlund just isn't. It doesn't help that Cameron clearly isn't capable of adjusting the powerplay from his ideal set-up.

[Toonage]

Its easier for a leftie to get a one timer off on the right wing. Faster too, harder for the goalie to set up or make it across in time.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

No they didn't. From day 1 they said Lazar was a project and they had to correct his development. He wasn't brought in to be an offensive threat - also, his play has been strong as of late and has never been given a shot on the PP. I'm not saying he deserves it or that he'd help, but with how bloody awful it has been the fact that the coaches even refuse to use Dougie Hamilton on the top unit is beyond maddening.

This was just one hell of a stretch to try and pile on a kid who is actively developing at the NHL level, albeit in a limited role.

I would hardly call that piling on for a guy traded for a 2nd rounder. His development is very questionable considering he's about to turn 23 and has 1 goal in the last two seasons.

Regardless, if the Flames had no expectations of Lazar contributing anything offensively a year after they traded for them then it's a stupid trade given the nature of the their organizational depth. They knew Brouwer was a dud at right wing and Versteeg was the only conceivable option for offense as a right handed forward. There were no conceivable options in the AHL that were right handed either. So the Flames had an immediate hole and decided to fill it with a long, long term project.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Karl

Effort is never a problem with Lazar. No one can fault him for that. In fact effort isn't a problem for the 4th line in general. Unfortunately the talent is a massive problem, a HUGE problem.

That 4th line is a huge problem, and will continue to be if they continue to do next to sweet f-all offensively. There's no getting around that.

Until the 4th line (any of those guys) can actually produce some offense more than just when hell freezes over, this team will be a long shot to make the playoffs.

It's actually why I don't write Lazar off.

He tries hard, provides energy, and usually finds himself in pretty good positions for chances. BUT he just has no finish.

Although there are situations where as long as you keep creating they will go in eventually. He reminds me of Paul Byron as a Flame in some ways, hopefully it will open up for him the same way it did for Paul.

[dino7c]

Lazar is better than the average 2nd round pick already...people spend too much time complaining about that trade

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Lazar is better than the average 2nd round pick already...people spend too much time complaining about that trade

He's in the NHL so yeah he's exceeded what most 2nd round picks amount to. The first round picks the Flames got for Bouwmeester and Iginla amounted to a hill of beans so you can argue that Lazar is better than those returns as well. The picks hold value as currency and in the lottery which is the draft you can on occasion hit big but a lot of the time they are worthless.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Lazar is better than the average 2nd round pick already...people spend too much time complaining about that trade

Good point. People get worked up because he was a former 1st rounder and should be doing more, but he only cost us a 2nd round pick - the 1st round status is somewhat negated for the Flames here.

If you look at Calgary's draft history in the last 10 years, drafting quality 2nd rounders has been rocky at best. Even though in 2015 and 2016 we appear to be drafting good in the 2nd round (Andersson, Kylington, Parsons and Dube), none are sure-fire NHL'ers at this point - even though it's looking up. Before that though, 2nd round picks have been abysmal.

We basically bought a guaranteed bottom-six guy with a bit of upside for a 2nd; whether that was valuable or not is a matter of opinion.

That being said, if he can stick around and Klimchuk and Poirier don't make it, then it's better value IMO.

[Fan in Exile]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Good point. People get worked up because he was a former 1st rounder and should be doing more, but he only cost us a 2nd round pick - the 1st round status is somewhat negated for the Flames here.

If you look at Calgary's draft history in the last 10 years, drafting quality 2nd rounders has been rocky at best. Even though in 2015 and 2016 we appear to be drafting good in the 2nd round (Andersson, Kylington, Parsons and Dube), none are sure-fire NHL'ers at this point - even though it's looking up. Before that though, 2nd round picks have been abysmal.

We basically bought a guaranteed bottom-six guy with a bit of upside for a 2nd; whether that was valuable or not is a matter of opinion.

That being said, if he can stick around and Klimchuk and Poirier don't make it, then it's better value IMO.

Who said he's a guaranteed bottom-six guy? Most of us question whether there are not several better options in the organization for our 4th line. I don't mind taking a gamble on a 2nd round pick here and there. But then Treliving went ahead and got rid of our 1st and another 3 2nds. Overall it's poor asset management.

Do you think anyone would trade a 2nd for Lazar now? Do you think anyone would claim him off waivers? I doubt it very much.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

Who said he's a guaranteed bottom-six guy? Most of us question whether there are not several better options in the organization for our 4th line. I don't mind taking a gamble on a 2nd round pick here and there. But then Treliving went ahead and got rid of our 1st and another 3 2nds. Overall it's poor asset management.

Do you think anyone would trade a 2nd for Lazar now? Do you think anyone would claim him off waivers? I doubt it very much.

Trade? Not a 2nd rounder. Waivers? Yes.

Hindsight is always 20/20, but I think it's too early to judge where he's going to end up.

Either way, he's being effective on the fourth line IMO.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Trade? Not a 2nd rounder. Waivers? Yes.

Hindsight is always 20/20, but I think it's too early to judge where he's going to end up.

Either way, he's being effective on the fourth line IMO.

Doesn't matter because he's not scoring, just like the rest of the 4th line guys.

Yes, you can't expect much from a 4th line, but you need to expect more from them than next to literally no offense and points at all.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by Karl

...
Yes, you can't expect much from a 4th line..l.

Why not?

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

Why not?

Why are they wearing different socks? Is that the answer? Do we need our 4th liners to wear different socks than each other? Is that what will get Stajan Ragin?

(Photoshop fail? And why isn’t Draper in the middle?)