New Allegations against Kent Hehr

[CaptainCrunch]

Well this seems useless

http://calgaryherald.com/news/politi...in-under-wraps

he Prime Minister’s Office commissioned an independent third-party investigation by lawyer Christine Thomlinson rather than an inquiry by the House of Commons human-resources officer, because the alleged incidents did not occur while Hehr was an MP.

The PMO says it is highly unlikely the investigation findings will be made public given privacy concerns, though the investigation will inform the government’s actions toward Hehr, who remains a member of the Liberal caucus.


Duff Conacher of the group Democracy Watch said there are ways to protect the privacy of complainants, but investigations into the conduct of MPs appear designed to be intentionally opaque.


“That’s part of the flaw. There should always be a public report saying what the conclusions are. And the politicians should want it,” Conacher said in an interview Tuesday.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well the groping allegation is basically farcical. Kent doesn't grab anything, let alone people. He has very limited use of his hands, and I just find it ludicrous that this would even come up. His overall motor control of his arms is poor at best, and people who have spent time with him would know how ridiculous this.

Anyway, my thoughts on this are well-known. It's pointless for me to continue defending him to people who have already made their decision.

To state the obvious, he can grab the wheelchair controls, feed himself and sign things, so he can surely grab things he's not supposed to as well.

[jeffporfirio]

I'm not going to pass judgment or state any opinion, but I'm pretty sure I've seen him grabbing/holding a microphone during stampede.

Edit
Found it

Spoiler!

[Slava]

Originally Posted by chedder

To state the obvious, he can grab the wheelchair controls, feed himself and sign things, so he can surely grab things he's not supposed to as well.

Well he moves a joystick, yeah. He has a fork that he can put his hand through, and it's not a "normal" fork. His signature is not easy for him to do actually because he can't hold a pen well at all, and he doesn't have control over the smaller muscles. As awkward as it sounds, its all bicep/shoulder. But it's hardly grabbing.

Originally Posted by jeffporfirio

I'm not going to pass judgment or state any opinion, but I'm pretty sure I've seen him grabbing/holding a microphone during stampede.

He holds a microphone with two hands because he can't with one.

Anyway, it is what it is. If women are coming forward saying that he groped them, then it should be taken seriously and investigated. I do think that for far too long men have gotten away with this stuff, and women have been afraid to report it or come forward. So despite my thoughts and opinions on this, it has to be examined.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well the groping allegation is basically farcical.

Originally Posted by Slava

Anyway, it is what it is. If women are coming forward saying that he groped them, then it should be taken seriously and investigated.

Sorry. You went from saying that the allegation was a farce to saying that it needs to be taken seriously within a span of a single post?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Sorry. You went from saying that the allegation was a farce to saying that it needs to be taken seriously within a span of a single post?

Right and with the point being that just because I think it's farcical and ridiculous doesn't make it so. I think it should be investigated and examined. We can't have women too afraid to come forward or not have their allegations taken seriously.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Slava

We can't have women too afraid to come forward or not have their allegations taken seriously.

But then you're willing to go on a messageboard and essentially call them liars. Sure, it's anonymous and they will likely never see it, but you have to understand why that mentality is damaging.

One of the many reasons that people don't come forward is the idea that they will not be taken seriously and called liars.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well he moves a joystick, yeah. He has a fork that he can put his hand through, and it's not a "normal" fork. His signature is not easy for him to do actually because he can't hold a pen well at all, and he doesn't have control over the smaller muscles. As awkward as it sounds, its all bicep/shoulder. But it's hardly grabbing.



He holds a microphone with two hands because he can't with one.

Anyway, it is what it is. If women are coming forward saying that he groped them, then it should be taken seriously and investigated. I do think that for far too long men have gotten away with this stuff, and women have been afraid to report it or come forward. So despite my thoughts and opinions on this, it has to be examined.

He's holding the microphone with one hand in the picture posted above by jeff.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

But then you're willing to go on a messageboard and essentially call them liars. Sure, it's anonymous and they will likely never see it, but you have to understand why that mentality is damaging.

One of the many reasons that people don't come forward is the idea that they will not be taken seriously and called liars.

I didn't call them liars at all, actually. And I really struggle with this mentality that we shouldn't question any allegations that people make? I mean the guy has already been booted from cabinet and won't be getting re-elected, so what's the harm in ensuring that these things took place as the person describes? I think it's a dangerous game to suggest that we should just accept someone's word on these things.

Originally Posted by redforever

He's holding the microphone with one hand in the picture posted above by jeff.

Well, obviously I stand corrected.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Slava

I didn't call them liars at all, actually. And I really struggle with this mentality that we shouldn't question any allegations that people make?

You literally said that "the groping allegation is basically farcical." Calling the allegation a farce is calling those that made it liars. Don't play coy with that.

Of course you can question the allegations, or even better you could let it be taken seriously and investigated before commenting on it with any sense of certainty (for both sides of the coin). But when you're calling the allegations a farce, that's not questioning the allegations, that's passing judgement on the accusers.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

You literally said that "the groping allegation is basically farcical." Calling the allegation a farce is calling those that made it liars. Don't play coy with that.

Of course you can question the allegations, or even better you could let it be taken seriously and investigated before commenting on it with any sense of certainty (for both sides of the coin). But when you're calling the allegations a farce, that's not questioning the allegations, that's passing judgement on the accusers.

I do think it's farcical and outlined my thinking of why that's the case. That's what we do on a message board. I also said that I think it should be taken seriously and investigated, and frankly that seems to be a reasonable position?

I'm not sure what you want here, because it's not like I am shying away from what I said. I just think that it both farcical and should be investigated. I just don't think that I'm some all knowing authority on these things, so while I have my thoughts and opinions I know that I might be wrong.

[Canehdianman]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Yep, nothing says well-meaning like abusing a position of authority to lech on and grope women (allegedly).

"Allegedly" is the most important word in that sentence and you toss it in as an afterthought.

I'm not a fan of Hehr but without due process nothing has been proven (and that goes for all of these other 'scandals' that are erupting right now too).

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by Slava

I do think it's farcical and outlined my thinking of why that's the case. That's what we do on a message board. I also said that I think it should be taken seriously and investigated, and frankly that seems to be a reasonable position?

I'm not sure what you want here, because it's not like I am shying away from what I said. I just think that it both farcical and should be investigated. I just don't think that I'm some all knowing authority on these things, so while I have my thoughts and opinions I know that I might be wrong.

I think the problem is suggesting it's farcical is just as stupid as convicting the guy without any proof. You're right in that you have no idea what happened and it should be investigated. Yet you chose to opine on it without anything backing your claim. Your knowledge of Kent Hehr is utterly meaningless.

You probably mean you think the process is farcical. You'd rather have a closed door, internal, private way to deal with these sort of things that keeps them out of the public eye and lessens the severity of the punishment to what you think fits the crime. AKA status quo.

But you have no right to essentially prohibited from posting whatever they want on Twitter. If this is all just a conspiracy to get rid of some random MP for no reason, then Hehr can sue this living #### out of his false accusers and employers and we'll see a triumphant return to his political career. I'm just not holding my breath as a phenomenon of false accusations hasn't happened yet.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Slava

I do think it's farcical and outlined my thinking of why that's the case. That's what we do on a message board. I also said that I think it should be taken seriously and investigated, and frankly that seems to be a reasonable position?

Sorry no. I do not believe it's a reasonable position to dismiss the claims of these women and call their allegations a farce on a public message board. It's like you've missed the last year. One of the reasons that people don't come forward more frequent is the fear that they will not be believed and the public will call them liars. You're doing just that by calling their allegations a farce, contributing to a great problem of today's society.

You're close to the situation, I get that, but to so readily dismiss these claims because you like Hehr and in essence call these women liars, I believe, is wrong. At least pass judgement on them until after an investigation and more information is (or if it is) released. I'm sure you'd want others to give Hehr the same courtesy, so give it to these women.

I also think it's a bit weird that you assume that someone with less-than-full-functionality of his hands would not enjoy touching women. Do you not believe Hehr's ever touched his wife with his hands? It's not so much the physical feeling of skin, we could grab our own asses if we wanted, but the meaning behind it. Just because someone might not be able to get a good solid handful of butt, doesn't mean he wouldn't enjoy what he could get...If, and notice I'm saying if and not passing immediately judgment, Hehr is a sexual predator of sorts, the action of groping could easily be about the power over the women he would have done it to.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

You're close to the situation, I get that, but to so readily dismiss these claims because you like Hehr and in essence call these women liars, I believe, is wrong.

Who are "these women" you're referring to? Who is he calling a liar? No one has actually accused Hehr of groping them, have they? It's just been expressed as a rumour by third parties on twitter, an unspoken thing that people are supposedly aware of around Parliament hill.

[Oling_Roachinen]

The women who made the complaints that he groped them...
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ticle37760006/

Liberal MP Kent Hehr is facing a second complaint, this time involving sexual misconduct, but remains a member of Justin Trudeau's caucus as an investigation into his alleged behaviour continues.

Liberal whip Pablo Rodriguez told reporters at the party's caucus meeting in Ottawa on Sunday that a second complaint against Mr. Hehr has been sent to law firm Rubin Thomlinson, which is investigating the former cabinet minister's conduct.

"That complaint was sent right away to the person in charge of the inquiry," Mr. Rodriguez said.

The new complaint against Mr. Hehr, which involves allegations of groping, comes as the woman who raised the initial allegations of inappropriate behaviour against Mr. Hehr said she has received threats for going public.

The Globe and Mail agreed to withhold the name of the second woman as she pursues her formal complaint.

The new complaint comes from a staffer of a fellow Liberal MP, who alleges Mr. Hehr grabbed her from behind, and left his hand there. The incident was obvious enough to alarm a fellow staffer who said he saw it.

http://calgaryherald.com/news/politi...nts-about-hehr

That prompted another woman, Kirstin Morrell, to come forward to say Kang had repeatedly groped and kissed her despite her rejection of his advances while she was his provincial constituency assistant between 2011 and 2012.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Who are "these women" you're referring to? Who is he calling a liar? No one has actually accused Hehr of groping them, have they? It's just been expressed as a rumour by third parties on twitter, an unspoken thing that people are supposedly aware of around Parliament hill.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...ions-1.4506957

Another woman has stepped forward with an allegation that Calgary MP Kent Hehr behaved inappropriately, and other women have spoken out to say they've been warned of his behaviour, after the MP temporarily resigned from his position in cabinet pending an investigation earlier this week.

An employee at a Liberal MP's constituency office said she was "groped" by Hehr at a caucus party in 2016. CBC News has granted her anonymity because of threats the other woman who has come forward has received. She told CBC News that she has reported the incident to her employer who will be passing on the allegation to the Liberal party whip.

Two other people involved in different levels of Canadian politics confirmed to CBC News that they had been warned of Hehr's behaviour, and say they know of women who have been the subject of unwanted sexual comments or physical contact from the Calgary MP.
__________________

[CaptainCrunch]

It sounds like the Federal Liberals dropped the ball on vetting Hehr if this behaviour was kicked up the ladder to the Provincial party whip.

You can bet now that the ability to run in an election for an established party is going to include a really deep background check, plus interviews with anyone that you've ever dealt with.

[Slava]

I’m just bailing on this conversation. We’re at the point where we at reposting things 3-4 times and discussing the same things over and over.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

It sounds like the Federal Liberals dropped the ball on vetting Hehr if this behaviour was kicked up the ladder to the Provincial party whip.

You can bet now that the ability to run in an election for an established party is going to include a really deep background check, plus interviews with anyone that you've ever dealt with.

None of this was a career ender until about 6 months ago.

The president of the United States admitted to sexually assaulting women and he got elected.

As a political calculation you could've assumed 8 months or a year ago that this kind of thing wasn't very damaging precisely because of how institutionalized it was.

I.E. If you think it's damaging politically it's almost always something you also believe to be uncommon. If everyone's doing it it is not as much of a problem.

This seems like the obvious calculation that was made in the Ontario PC party.