Treliving needs to start feeling the heat

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

He's built a pretty good team here.

If they had a decent powerplay, not even great....just decent, they'd be right on Vegas' heels for 1st in the Pacific.

I'm not convinced they'd be that good, but yeah they would be a definite playoff team.

[Gaskal]

If the coaching salary being capped by the owners really is a thing, then Burke & Treliving needs to tell them that if they want to taste more than 1 round of playoff revenue a year they can dish out for a better coach after this season. Hopefully Quennville comes over.

Maybe even Torts. How funny would Torts be?

Alternatively, the owners can be stuck in this continual cycle where they're paying for two coaches - one to not coach, and one to coach. It seems like they've been in some sort of this rut, on and off, for the last decade or so.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by colbym72

I just sometimes wonder if we overrate the talent here as fans. I love this team but not sure if has the offensive skill it needs.

Vegas has a terrible powerplay statistically and they’re the best team in the league (win%). This team lacks bottom scoring depth that everyone else seems to have. It’s as clear as day to me that it’s the biggest problem of this team. People can scapegoat our lackluster powerplay, but there’s a lot good teams right now who have just as bad of a powerplay.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I cannot believe Treliving still hasn’t addressed the 4th line of this team. We have a lot of our top players having career years and one who’s top 10 in scoring yet we’re still struggling mightily to score enough goals to win.

There’s something very wrong with that picture. We’re 50 games in and Lazar is still sitting at a goose egg and Matt Stajan has 2 points. If Stajan scored at the same pace as he did last season we’d probably have 2-3 additional wins and we all wouldn’t be as pissed off as we are right now.

The team as a whole does not score very much, calling out the 4th line seems silly.

The 4th line isn't getting it's teeth kicked in anymore. Lazar, Hathaway, Stajan are driving playing into the offensive zone and getting faceoffs. Hardly useless, and a big improvement from where it was with Stajan and Brouwer on the ice together.

The PP's continued ineptitude is what is actively costing this team games.

[djsFlames]

Treliving needs to get over his patience approach. There's no impending breakthrough here, we've seen enough of a sample size to know the margins for the team as it is. Season's on the line, right now, one where assets are minimal and the 1st used to buff up the team for this season and an expected playoff run is in the hands of another team, and the pendulum of their hot and cold play continues to swing.

It's time to swing the axe, or make a move. We won't call it knee jerk because 'intellectual honesty' says it probably has been necessary for some time.

[colbym72]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Vegas has a terrible powerplay statistically and they’re the best team in the league (win%). This team lacks bottom scoring depth that everyone else seems to have. It’s as clear as day to me that it’s the biggest problem of this team. People can scapegoat our lackluster powerplay, but there’s a lot good teams right now who have just as bad of a powerplay.

Agreed. Sometimes the simplest answer is the correct one. Lazar, Stajan (1), Hathaway(2) , Familton, Mangiapane, Hrivik and Brouwer (3) have combined for 6 goals. That hurts a lot in the long run. If that is 12 goals, that is at least 2 more wins probably.

[CroFlames]

I would be an excellent GM. There's no doubt in my mind.

My biggest weakness would be that I think I'm a good coach too, so I'd fire my coach probably every 2nd year and take over as interim.

[cannon7]

Had Treliving not overpaid for Hamonic, we might have some assets to move to help the team.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by colbym72

Agreed. Sometimes the simplest answer is the correct one. Lazar, Stajan (1), Hathaway(2) , Familton, Mangiapane, Hrivik and Brouwer (3) have combined for 6 goals. That hurts a lot in the long run. If that is 12 goals, that is at least 2 more wins probably.

Add in Kulak (0), Hamonic (1) and Stone (2) and it is easy to see the major issue

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by colbym72

Agreed. Sometimes the simplest answer is the correct one. Lazar, Stajan (1), Hathaway(2) , Familton, Mangiapane, Hrivik and Brouwer (3) have combined for 6 goals. That hurts a lot in the long run. If that is 12 goals, that is at least 2 more wins probably.

There isn't only one correct answer. Yes, more out of the bottom of the roster would help and should be an expectation, but it's not like you can expect them to be a factor every game or two. Suppose they scored 12 goals to date - that's basically one every 4 games.

The PP should be a factor in at least half the games but it isn't - that's a bigger issue. If they get 3 PPs per game and hit at 25% (admittedly a high number) they would score 3 goals in 4 games. Clearly PP is a bigger lever than 4th line.

[burnitdown]

Originally Posted by colbym72

Agreed. Sometimes the simplest answer is the correct one. Lazar, Stajan (1), Hathaway(2) , Familton, Mangiapane, Hrivik and Brouwer (3) have combined for 6 goals. That hurts a lot in the long run. If that is 12 goals, that is at least 2 more wins probably.

Also...outside of Gio, Dougie and Brodie, offence from our D is non-existent. It's killing us when we regularly ice 4 F and 3 D each night who have almost no chance of picking up a point.

We really need Versteeg back...and hopefully some more help through a trade.

[Red]

Originally Posted by colbym72

I just sometimes wonder if we overrate the talent here as fans. I love this team but not sure if has the offensive skill it needs.

True, but when you look at out PP set up do you not see a problem?

Johnny is where a one time shooter should be.
Backlund is in the same spot on the other side.He is not a good shooter either.
Gio is on the point, where he should be.
The other two are by the net to scoop up garbage.

So outside of the Gio point shot, all we have is a down low play. That's too easy to defend against.

Our forwards are average at best, but we have a great offensive blue line. You'd think you would utilize it more. Instead we ice 4 forwards on the first PP while Hamilton and Stone are on the bench.

Hamilton gets second PP with Brodie, but because of it he is the only threat and easy to defend against. Brodie is terrible on PP.

They should try two D on the points and get some shots on net and go for rebounds. Our PP does not create any havoc for PK units because we make too many short passes. A shot/rebound makes the PK turn around and create confusion. We don't do it nearly enough.

[colbym72]

Originally Posted by Red

True, but when you look at out PP set up do you not see a problem?

Johnny is where a one time shooter should be.
Backlund is in the same spot on the other side.He is not a good shooter either.
Gio is on the point, where he should be.
The other two are by the net to scoop up garbage.

So outside of the Gio point shot, all we have is a down low play. That's too easy to defend against.

Our forwards are average at best, but we have a great offensive blue line. You'd think you would utilize it more. Instead we ice 4 forwards on the first PP while Hamilton and Stone are on the bench.

Hamilton gets second PP with Brodie, but because of it he is the only threat and easy to defend against. Brodie is terrible on PP.

They should try two D on the points and get some shots on net and go for rebounds. Our PP does not create any havoc for PK units because we make too many short passes. A shot/rebound makes the PK turn around and create confusion. We don't do it nearly enough.

Yes I am not doubting the issues on the PP. Its hard to watch. I just expect more scoring from the bottom of the lineup. We have a guy we traded a 2nd rounder for last year who hasn't scored yet. That is a joke. We have Sam Bennett who MIGHT get 10 goals this year and 30 points. Not acceptable based on what the expectations are for him. The problems are rarely one thing, but man it just seems like there are guys not contributing enough. When Johnny isn't flying, this team worries me and I wonder if they should swap Bennett and Tkachuk to spread out some scoring.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

The team as a whole does not score very much, calling out the 4th line seems silly.

The 4th line isn't getting it's teeth kicked in anymore. Lazar, Hathaway, Stajan are driving playing into the offensive zone and getting faceoffs. Hardly useless, and a big improvement from where it was with Stajan and Brouwer on the ice together.

The PP's continued ineptitude is what is actively costing this team games.

Silly? What’s silly is the amount of teams that have come through with their 4th lines that have dominated us and singlehandedly beat us, the Flyers, Canadiens, Maple Leafs and etc in recent memory. Look at the Oilers just this past week, they got all their goals from their 7th defenseman and Zack Kassian.

If we picked up a couple wins from the back of our 4th line would people be complaining right now? No because we’d be settled nicely into 2nd place in our division behind the Knights. People really need to stop giving the 4th line a free pass just because they don’t expect anything from them. They play 10-11 minutes a night which takes away minutes from our top guys who have actually contributed to the majority of our 58 points this season.

I don’t put blame on a lot of our top players because they’re having career years. They’re doing their jobs while others aren’t pulling their weight. People can continue to scapegoat our mediocre powerplay, but fact is you don’t need to have a great powerplay to be a good team. The Duck, Kings, Blues and Knights all have bad powerplays and are all ahead of our team.

[Vinny01]

The last thing Treliving should do is trade for a 4th liner. Absolute terrible decision.

The last time he did that was flipping a 3rd for Bollig and that was an awful move. Don’t give up assets for 4th liners.

Get Stajan out of the lineup and just go with young hungry guys. If Mangiapane, Lazar, and Lomberg can’t cut it call up Klimchuk, Poirier, Shinkaruk to try and if they don’t work call up 3 other guys. Do not trade for anyone thst is going to be outside of the top 9 on this team

[Toonage]

Mangiapane/Lomberg-Lazar-Hathaway would serve just fine as an energy line.

A new voice is needed for the PP to instill some confidence and a fresh approach.

As for feeling the heat, if the Flames miss the playoffs on the back of Treliving not fixing (or attempting to fix) what is most obvious to even casual observers then he probably deserves what comes his way. Especially if you consider what he has spent to make this team a contender.

As I've noted before (as have others), Don Maloney is right there ready to take over a job he is very familiar with.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by colbym72

I just sometimes wonder if we overrate the talent here as fans. I love this team but not sure if has the offensive skill it needs.

It could be argued the Flames have about 7-8 NHL caliber forwards. Depth is atrocious.

[Vinny01]

From all reports it seems like Treliving was close to making a move on a goalie at the deadline last year. Francis mentioned during the broadcast that Fleury though he was coming to Calgary the night before the deadline last year. It was reported they almost made a move for Bishop as well.

Treliving decided to stand pat and watch our goaltending play a massive part in the first round sweep at the hands of the Ducks.

What is he thinking right now? Are they a player away from competing? Does he still trust Gulutzan enough to be the guy to move this team forward?

I simply can’t see him standing pat as that cost the team last year. He is not a knee jerk guy either so it will be interesting to see how he handles the next 4 weeks

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

He's built a pretty good team here.

If they had a decent powerplay, not even great....just decent, they'd be right on Vegas' heels for 1st in the Pacific.

It's a good team with a lot of the required ingredients in a top goaltender, solid blue line, top 10 scorer, solid 2-way center, etc. It's a little imbalanced with the lack of scoring depth but there's no doubt special teams has dragged the team down.

[googol]

If the bottom 2 lines were able to contribute just 12 goals more this season. The flames could comfortably be 10 points ahead in the standings. Think of all those 1 goal games. If they scored one goal yesterday. It would have been 3-1 and the game would have been out of reach. Considering all the minutes they spend on the ice, is there a playoff team with a more useless 4th line?