Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

Why should the Flames numbers matter, or be considered? They don't own the land, don't have any experience with reclamation or development, and couldn't even add up their own numbers in their own Plan B proposal.




The city has many areas in need of cleanup, including other ones along rivers. . Why should this one be given priority when there is no economic case to do so?

The City doesn't own many areas that are in the state that the West Village site is. What areas are you talking about?

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The City doesn't own many areas that are in the state that the West Village site is. What areas are you talking about?

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpo...postcount=2192

Just as an example.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpo...postcount=2192

Just as an example.

Those are lands in the city, not necessarily owned by the city. Alberta Environment could actually make the owners clean up or could charge them for doing it.

And the list is just a post by a guy who thinks there is contamination in those places, but not what it is or the extent.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by kermitology

But the whole point of bringing numbers into the equation is that a CRL in the West Village will pay back the investment to clean up the area. It can't pay for clean up AND an arena. It also can't take away investment from the East Village until that CRL is near completion, otherwise you stagnate the ability to reconcile the CRL in both. And lastly, you can't have an arena/stadium mega project take up so much space without any contribution to the CRL.

Considering the numbers is extremely important.

You use the word can't pretty liberally (as do a lot of people in this thread). The projects discussed so far, as presented, are far from perfect or even viable. But that does not mean that there aren't solutions. There is no can't here, only challenges.

One possible variable, for instance, was that the additional funding that can be achieved through an Olympic bid, could have been a trigger to get the creosote cleaned up from other levels of government. And that would change the economics of a west village CRL substantially.

An olympic timeline also significantly reduces the overlap against the east village CRL (again, can't is inappropriate)

The absolutes that keep getting posted in these threads need to stop. There is room for discussions, there is room for creativity, and there is room for solutions.

[nik-]

Then replace "you can't/it can't" with "it's foolish".

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

You use the word can't pretty liberally (as do a lot of people in this thread). The projects discussed so far, as presented, are far from perfect or even viable. But that does not mean that there aren't solutions. There is no can't here, only challenges.

One possible variable, for instance, was that the additional funding that can be achieved through an Olympic bid, could have been a trigger to get the creosote cleaned up from other levels of government. And that would change the economics of a west village CRL substantially.

It really wouldn't, because the issue with the West Village CRL is that it wouldn't even be able to fund the arena/stadium. So if you get 'Olympic money' to do the clean-up, you're still left with your original funding hole that isn't viable without a massive anchor tenant that the arena/stadium prohibits. The only thing big enough to support the CRL, is being funded by the CRL, that isn't viable. It can't work that way.

That's the problem that is being ignored. The use of the CRL doesn't take into account the cleanup to begin with. You could have no clean-up, no infrastructure improvements, no road realignments, nothing but plopping the building down and opening up development around it and it still isn't a viable CRL.

An olympic timeline also significantly reduces the overlap against the east village CRL (again, can't is inappropriate)

How so? If anything it maximizes the overlap required since works would have to begin really quick. The ideal time to start a CRL there would be 2029, a bit late for Olympic development to occur.

[InglewoodFan]

Bettman is coming to town tomorrow, reiterates that there are no new negotiations and the Flames have given up.

The article says he is meeting with STH, anyone get an invite?

[getbak]

Originally Posted by InglewoodFan

Bettman is coming to town tomorrow, reiterates that there are no new negotiations and the Flames have given up.

The article says he is meeting with STH, anyone get an invite?

Yes. I'll be going.

[Scary Eloranta]

Didn't get an invite and wouldn't go anyway. Don't wanna hear that weasel spout out the same old BS again. This is not the time to threaten the fans with leaving when most would be saying good riddance anyway. And I'm one of the few who doesn't mind chipping in for a new arena.

[CofR]

Originally Posted by InglewoodFan

Bettman is coming to town tomorrow, reiterates that there are no new negotiations and the Flames have given up.

The article says he is meeting with STH, anyone get an invite?

I’ll be going as well, will try and post an update afterwards if there’s any new information which I doubt there will be.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by CofR

I’ll be going as well, will try and post an update afterwards if there’s any new information which I doubt there will be.

Prepare for the world's most boring meeting. I hope the sandwiches are good.

[Freeway]

Very curious how media's reception to Bettman is this time around.

[CofR]

Originally Posted by Locke

Prepare for the world's most boring meeting. I hope the sandwiches are good.

If the food is anything like what we had at the Stamps luncheon with the commissioner a couple of weeks ago then the meeting can be as boring as they want.

[ah123]

If there is nothing to announce, and there are no conversations on-going, why is Bettman coming? Does he meet with STH in every city?

[getbak]

He was in Vancouver yesterday for the Draft announcement. He was in Edmonton this morning.

Looks like it's his annual western trip.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by getbak

He was in Vancouver yesterday for the Draft announcement. He was in Edmonton this morning.

Looks like it's his annual western trip.

I'd pay good money to be at his delousing when he gets to the City limits.

[Jordan!]

Uncle Gary is the man

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Freeway

Very curious how media's reception to Bettman is this time around.

I anticipate Eric Francis will receive him in his usual gimp outfit.

[RM14]

Bill Smith's donors were released. The Herald didnt mention CSEC at all.

[wired]

The Flames will be moving in the 2019/2020 season if a new arena does not get built.
My opinion.