2017/2018 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[Oling_Roachinen]

I think it's fair to argue between the two Seans in a general sense of "who's been better in the last couple seasons." My list was more heavily focused on this year.

But If you look at last couple years, Couturier may fall down but Toews, Backstrom, Pavelski and Thornton move up.

Karlsson disapears completely, but O'Reilly and Johansen enter back into that category. Zetterberg, Koivu, (healthy) Krejci, Giroux (at center).

Over the last 2.5 seasons, 15 centers have more points, 25 centers have a higher PPG than Monahan. I don't think it's absurd to argue he's not quite reached that top 10 yet.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Laugh, ok...

Couturier is playing on the top line for the first time in his career and is excelling. Stirring the drink. He's over a point a game with a 57% defensive zone start.

Monahan isn't a PPG player while playing with the best player on either line. And his d zone start is 42%.

Couturier starts his shift in the d zone 15 pp more than Monahan and is still putting up more points.

In other words, Couturier is a complete hockey player who's putting up elite point levels. There's no Rose colored glasses argument or who is better. There is reality and delusion.

Really? There's no discussion? Just reality and delusion? Anyone who even questions otherwise is a homer look at it through rose colored glasses?

Never mind that this will be Couturier's first season breaking 50 points and second breaking 40, or that he plays with two of the highest scoring players in the league this season, or that he's two years older than Monahan?

Yep. No discussion who the better player is.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

No added scoring though. 6 goals, 15 points. Puts him behind injured Frolik.

I think we have two holes on this roster though. Bottom 6 center, RH who is a strong PKer and a scoring 2nd/3rd line RW (Versteeg/Jagr were supposed to help fill the role). So if you see him as a Stajan replacement there is some added scoring on that 4th line.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Ferland
Tkachuk - Backlund - Frolik
Bennett - Jankowski - ???
Mangiapane - Pageau - Hathaway
Brouwer

Stajan moved as expiring contract dump in the package for Pageau. Versteeg/Jagr remain on IR.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Really? There's no discussion? Just reality and delusion? Anyone who even questions otherwise is a homer look at it through rose colored glasses?

Never mind that this will be Couturier's first season breaking 50 points and second breaking 40, or that he plays with two of the highest scoring players in the league this season, or that he's two years older than Monahan?

Yep. No discussion who the better player is.

There really isn't at this point. Some numbers to mull on. Couturier has the 15th worst zone starts of any forward in the league with over 500 mins. He's one of three players in the league with a points per 60 over 2, a corsi over 50% and a d zone start over 50%. (Matthews and Kopitar are the two others)

Couturier is demonstrating this season that he's better offensively than Monahan and has demonstrated over the course of his career that he's an elite defensive center - Something Monahan has never done (nor likely will).

Listen, we all like Monahan, dude is good at putting the puck in the net. That's good! That's the hardest thing to do. Thing is, that's about all Monahan does. Couturier contributes in a much more multi-dimensional way.

Couturier is almost a lock to win the Selke this year. Monahan wont get a sniff of any major hardware (besides the Stanley we hope). So no, there is no argument over who the better player is, there's ignorance/delusion or reality.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Couturier is almost a lock to win the Selke this year.

Unfortunately for Couturier, he won't get it because of Bergeron. It's a bit of a reputation award, need to get your foot in the door first.

Bergeron's an easy lock. Already has the reputation and is playing lights out on an amazing line and putting up a point-per-game pace. Won't help him that Kopitar has surged back either.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Unfortunately for Couturier, he won't get it because of Bergeron. It's a bit of a reputation award, need to get your foot in the door first.

Bergeron's an easy lock. Already has the reputation and is playing lights out on an amazing line and putting up a point-per-game pace. Won't help him that Kopitar has surged back either.

This is true actually, I stand corrected. I just looked at Bergeron's numbers. That guy is a freak. A mother effing freak.

[Enoch Root]

Bergeron will not only win the Selke, he will be in the conversation for the Hart this year.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Toews had already received Selke nominations by his fifth season. He's elite on the basis of his defense, so I would not say they are a good comparable as much as I love Monahan. Not to mention the Conn Smythe.

Monahan had nominations (5th most iirc) in his third season.

Further, Monahan has more goals and points in about 100 less games, and is two years younger than Couturier.

This season, it could be argued that Couturier is preforming better than Monahan. On balance of their careers, and the potential that monahan could still improve (just like couturier has...) over the next two seasons make Monahan the better centre.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Couturier is demonstrating this season that he's better offensively than Monahan and has demonstrated over the course of his career that he's an elite defensive center - Something Monahan has never done (nor likely will).

Lots of players have offensive seasons they never duplicate. Monahan has shown he can put up numbers offensively every year. Couturier hasn't.

[Enoch Root]

Saying a player is clearly better offensively, due entirely to one breakout season, is a stretch at best. Let's see if he repeats it.

Monahan has established a pretty strong track record with respect to his offensive abilities.

[Flash Walken]

monahan is a garbage man who will never lead this team anywhere.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

monahan is a garbage man who will never lead this team anywhere.

Please explain why?

Sorry I know your post was a drive by but explain yourself.

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

monahan is a garbage man who will never lead this team anywhere.

Not familiar enough with poster to tell if this is schtick or not.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

Lots of players have offensive seasons they never duplicate. Monahan has shown he can put up numbers offensively every year. Couturier hasn't.

Monahan has proven that when he's on the first line, first PP that he puts up offensive numbers every year yes.

Couturier is showing that we he's on the first line and first PP that he puts up better offensive numbers than Monahan. Couturier has, up until this season, never been given the plumb deployments Monahan gets. And even this season, as I showed posts earlier, is getting significantly more challenging zone starts than Monahan who's more or less sheltered as a offensive zone player.

This year is the first year that Couturier has been on PP1 in Philadelphia. Las year he had 2 PPP points with 1:49 PP TOI on average. His PP linemates? Travis Konecny and Dale Weise. This year he's playing on PP1 and has over 3 minutes a night of PP time, subsequently he has 10 PPP.

At even strength, he played with Weise and Schenn last year for the most part.

Monahan has averaged over 3 minutes of PP TOI for the past three seasons, playing with significantly more talent.

If Couturier gets Monahan's PP deployment and points of 17 last season then he's right there with him in total points of 55 to 58. This year it's not going to be close.

The craziest thing is that it's not even about the PP usage that's driving the core results. Couturier is tied for 2nd in the league at 39 ES points. Think about that. He's starting 57% of the time in the defensive zone and is second in the league in ES points. Incredible.

I'm waiting to hear the statistical argument for why you think Monahan is in the same conversation as Couturier, let alone better.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Please explain why?

Sorry I know your post was a drive by but explain yourself.

He's attempting to be facetious. He does that a lot with comments about Monahan implying he thinks those (Tinordi) assertions about him are silly. He even went so far as to call Tinordi a goof for this self-disparaging outlook as a supposed fan a few days ago, yet he goes around thanking a high volume of his posts where he's doing just that.

In either case, it's great to see the Trade and Rumour thread turned into a discussion about how Tinordi thinks everyone over-rates Monahan. Great reading.

[dino7c]

Any trade rumors?

[TheScorpion]

Any speculation?

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Any trade rumors?

Conroy reportedly on a plane to Ottawa. (Confirmed in attendance 12minutes ago by Garrioch)

Hoffman and Smith both in the lineup tonight Stone is not.

Pageau makes his return to the lineup after missing 4 games, Conroys timing maybe not a coincidence there.

[GoJetsGo]

Between the Conroy in Ottawa talk and the All-star break coming up, wouldn't be surprised to see a deal made soon if Treliving is prime to make one.

Based on last year it seemed he didn't want to wait until the deadline to make improvements. Maybe we'll see something in the next week or two.

[Karl]

JGP!

Just kidding. Not really interested in acquiring him.