Re-sign Backlund Thread

[Ashasx]

What kind of player would you hope to trade for after Backlund is gone? (or do you mean trade Backlund for that player?)

[Poe969]

The Flames don't need Backlund to play center any more, Brouwer is the new faceoff specialist.

[Vinny01]

It is not out of the realm of possibility to think Jankowski will be a top 2 line centre in the next 2 years. Do the Flames want to risk having a 33-35 year old Backlind in their team in 4 years making $6M?

Backlund has all the power now and is the clear cut second best UFA centre this summer. I really hate the idea of top players going this far into the season unsigned. Losing assets like this for nothing close windows faster, especially when this team lacks picks to make improvements elsewhere

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

If these are the methods being used to evaluate Backlund's defensive capability, which is inarguably great, then this thread is truly lost.

If you can get Backlund for $5 million for any length, you do that ASAP. Anyone who thinks otherwise here is simply wrong.

I would think you would be wrong if Backlund got a 7 year deal. Hell I don't think Backs should get 6 years at $5 million. Every year the NHL is going younger and younger .Its not going to be to long until GM's realise that July 1st is not a good day to sign players that are nearing 30 and over to long term deals.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

How many times have you argued with me over these items, how many times do you need to be proven wrong, while you continue to post stats like +/- or FO% like they are defining characteristics of a good or bad hockey player.

Backlund is an elite defensive player. If you think otherwise, you are wrong. He makes life easier for Monahan who would drown if he was expected to face the opposition's top players every night, or was expected to take as many defensive draws as Backlund.

Backlund has done all this while being 50 point player these last few years. He's on pace to score that many this season.

Trading him will absolutely gut this team.



That you think Jankowski can perform Backlund's role, coupled with your past opinions, tells me all I need to know about your hockey knowledge.

Backlund has broken 50 point barrier once and i'm not sure he will do it again this year.

I will give you that he is miles better right now than Janko. Janko is not ready for 2nd line duty.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

How many times have you argued with me over these items, how many times do you need to be proven wrong, while you continue to post stats like +/- or FO% like they are defining characteristics of a good or bad hockey player.

Well, those metrics do come into play when establishing the efficacy of a player, especially one that is supposed to be such a strong defensive player, and a center. All the fancy stats in the world don't amount to a hill of beans if you're on the ice for more goals than you score, and you can't win a faceoff with consistency.

Trading him will absolutely gut this team.

No, it really won't. Backlund is a support player. Losing Backlund would impact the team no different than losing Frolik. Both are very good players, but both are replaceable.

That you think Jankowski can perform Backlund's role, coupled with your past opinions, tells me all I need to know about your hockey knowledge.

You claiming Backlund is "elite" and "irreplaceable" says a lot about your supposed hockey knowledge. I can't imagine you'd get much support about either of those claims around the league. I know you won't get it from the management of the Flames. If any of your views were accurate, Treliving would have tripped all over himself to get him signed to an extension.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Defensive zone starts:
Monahan: 41.9% (lowest of any regular on the team)
Jankowski: 42.2% (second lowest of any regular on the team)
Backlund: 57.1%

How do you guys think Monahan and Jankowski will perform with that increased responsibility? They already face the easiest zone starts on the team. How will they perform when they are expected to undertake the toughest?

That is Backlund's value.

Pretty good stat right here. Backlund is a very important player to this team and he does a lot of heavy lifting that Monahan and Jankowski haven't done or haven't shown they can do yet. I know the points aren't necessarily there, but night in and night out, Backlund shows a heck of a lot more than Monahan does. His ability to exit the zone and enter the zone are much better and he'd likely be a 60-70 point player if he played with Gaudreau instead. Monahan needs to show me more than a great shot and shootout prowess before I'd consider giving up Backlund.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Backlund has broken 50 point barrier once and i'm not sure he will do it again this year.

I will give you that he is miles better right now than Janko. Janko is not ready for 2nd line duty.

Agree with all this.

We have a 500 game sample size with Backlund and he is a 40 pt player who is better than most n the defensive side of the puck.

The way some are going on, it would be akin to trading Crosby off the Penguins if he was to be lost, which is absurd. Would he be a loss? Of course, but again losing him for nothing would be so much worse than trading him for someone/something.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I get that, but that doesn't mean Vegas won't have a significant impact on next year's salary cap, which is projected to increase significantly. The same thing will happen with Seattle.

Yes it does mean that. Vegas will NOT have a significant impact on next year's cap. Let's go through it again...

Start with the average team's HRR (roughly $130 M)

In order for Vegas to cause the cap to go up $ONE million, they would need to have HRR revenues that are $62M higher than the league average, or nearly $200M.

That is not happening.

I will say it again. For one team to singlehandly move the cap by $1M. they need to increase their HRR by $62M (or about %50% of the league average revenue).

I know that Friedman and others have been reporting that the cap might go up by $5M but if so, it isn't because of Vegas (unless of course their HRR is over $400M, which it most certainly isn't).

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by dammage79

You're pruposefully omitting whatever roster player comes in via trade when Backlund is moved.

I get it, there's going to be some very staunch blind defense of keeping Backlund. Hudlers trade deadline created the same environment.

Backlund may re-sign, he may not. But I think we can all agree that letting Backlund walk for nothing if that's the way things turn, is the worst possible outcome the team can endure.

You and Ashax not arguing with a bunch of WhereRUChrisOsullivans, majority of us here know what Backlund is. Not one person is saying he sucks. And when the business side of hockey comes into play, it doesn't matter how much a player is loved by fans, they're going to do what's best for the team.

There isn't a roster player that comes back if Backlund is moved. Who would we be moving him to? A contender. Why would a contender remove a Backlund-comparable player in exchange for Backlund?

If you move Backlund, you're getting a late 1st and a cap dump. If you get a prospect worth anything, it won't be a prospect you can just plug into your lineup. If the player in question was that good, he would not be traded for Backlund.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

There isn't a roster player that comes back if Backlund is moved. Who would we be moving him to? A contender. Why would a contender remove a Backlund-comparable player in exchange for Backlund?



If you move Backlund, you're getting a late 1st and a cap dump. If you get a prospect worth anything, it won't be a prospect you can just plug into your lineup. If the player in question was that good, he would not be traded for Backlund.

Martin Hanzal returned a 1st, a 2nd, and a 4th.

Backlund > Hanzal.

So if Backs is moved, you’re getting a 1st+2nd+4th and maybe something slightly better.

The Flames, having spent significant assets in the summer does not allow them the freedom to allow Backlund to walk away via free agency. It is possible Backlund could go out the door to a team in the same way Turris did - with an extension - or it’s also possible Backlund gets moved and in a separate trade the Flames acquire someone else to play 3rd line centre.


Or, Backlund could be extended - but the closer we get to the end of the year, the less likely that comes to pass (in my opinion).

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by New Era

Well, those metrics do come into play when establishing the efficacy of a player, especially one that is supposed to be such a strong defensive player, and a center. All the fancy stats in the world don't amount to a hill of beans if you're on the ice for more goals than you score, and you can't win a faceoff with consistency.



No, it really won't. Backlund is a support player. Losing Backlund would impact the team no different than losing Frolik. Both are very good players, but both are replaceable.



You claiming Backlund is "elite" and "irreplaceable" says a lot about your supposed hockey knowledge. I can't imagine you'd get much support about either of those claims around the league. I know you won't get it from the management of the Flames. If any of your views were accurate, Treliving would have tripped all over himself to get him signed to an extension.

You mock analytics yet parade +/- and FO% as valuable stats? You mock Backlund's FO% just below 50%, which amounts to a handful of extra faceoff wins over an entire season?

What's your definition of support player? He makes the lives of every player on this team easier. I don't know what else to say.

I won't say Backlund is the most valuable piece on this team because he's not (given age, etc.) but he certainly means as much to winning as any other player right now.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Martin Hanzal returned a 1st, a 2nd, and a 4th.

Backlund > Hanzal.

So if Backs is moved, you’re getting a 1st+2nd+4th and maybe something slightly better.

The Flames, having spent significant assets in the summer does not allow them the freedom to allow Backlund to walk away via free agency. It is possible Backlund could go out the door to a team in the same way Turris did - with an extension - or it’s also possible Backlund gets moved and in a separate trade the Flames acquire someone else to play 3rd line centre.


Or, Backlund could be extended - but the closer we get to the end of the year, the less likely that comes to pass (in my opinion).

The Flames are going to be in a dogfight for 2nd in the division the rest of the way. You can't jettison the centre who does all your heavy lifting defensively, centres the #1PK unit, and is on the #1PP. You just can't.

In the case of Hudler/Glencross, these were players who were already made expendable either by situation or performance. The team was also at a different point in its development.

Hudler was traded away from a team that would draft 6th overall. Glencross was traded from a team that had not made the playoffs in five years.

I will listen to arguments that between Jankowski, Bennett and Dube, the organization thinks it can weather the loss of Backlund next year. But they can't trade him now. They can extend him, they can let him walk, but they cannot send this team into the post-season without a player at least as good as him as #2C.

Given that acquiring this would likely cost whatever we give up for Backlund, let's just keep Backlund. The Flames have three defensemen under contract at less than $5M for two years after this one, all well under 30. If they need to recoup assets, that's the way you do it - not by trading Backlund six weeks before the playoffs.

[flamesfever]

I understand he wants to stay here. As far as conditioning, he keeps himself in great shape, and should be good physically for many years. They think they will have him signed by the trade deadline.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

You mock analytics yet parade +/- and FO% as valuable stats? You mock Backlund's FO% just below 50%, which amounts to a handful of extra faceoff wins over an entire season?

What's your definition of support player? He makes the lives of every player on this team easier. I don't know what else to say.

I won't say Backlund is the most valuable piece on this team because he's not (given age, etc.) but he certainly means as much to winning as any other player right now, aside from Gaudreau and Smith - of course. They're clearly the most important players on this team, as right now, one is the actual heart beat of the offence (Gaudreau), while the other is the back bone of our defensive zone and we'd be utterly lost without him (Smith).

fyp.

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I understand he wants to stay here. As far as conditioning, he keeps himself in great shape, and should be good physically for many years. They think they will have him signed by the trade deadline.

Is this info from any sort of source or anything?

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

fyp.



Is this info from any sort of source or anything?

Gaudreau's line gets to face those easier minutes because of the Backlund line.

I listed the two Flames regulars with the easiest zone starts on the team. Guess who the third is?

[Vinny01]

A lot of what I have read this year is the Flames have been matching their top line against opposition top lines. I know the Backlind unit gets buried in the D-zone.

One thing I have wondered is who is really driving the 3M line? I tend to think it is Tkachuk and not Backlund.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

A lot of what I have read this year is the Flames have been matching their top line against opposition top lines. I know the Backlind unit gets buried in the D-zone.

One thing I have wondered is who is really driving the 3M line? I tend to think it is Tkachuk and not Backlund.

Well, it's not Frolik.

Whoever plays with Backlund, whether it's Colborne, Frolik, Brouwer, Tkachuk, whoever, improves. He's a centre that can hold onto the puck and distributes well.

Were they ever to decide to play him with Gaudreau, I wouldn't hate it.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

A lot of what I have read this year is the Flames have been matching their top line against opposition top lines. I know the Backlind unit gets buried in the D-zone.

One thing I have wondered is who is really driving the 3M line? I tend to think it is Tkachuk and not Backlund.

Backlund played well and was an analytics dream before Tkachuk became a Flame, but that's not to undersell Tkachuk who has been fantastic as well.

With that said, there are a few more defensive responsibilities that a centre must handle versus a winger. I think Backlund helps Tkachuk and Tkachuk helps Backlund.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Gaudreau's line gets to face those easier minutes because of the Backlund line.

I listed the two Flames regulars with the easiest zone starts on the team. Guess who the third is?

If there isn't anyone for Backlund to do the heavy lifting for, does the heavy lifting matter?