Does Giordano get suspended for the hit on Aho? Update:No hearing scheduled - Per NHL

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Rollin22x

Here's a "different" point of view. This article suggests it was a bump followed by Gio intentionally going for the knee.
https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/14...for-hit-on-aho

Wow, that was a super in depth analysis. Well done.

What is happening at The Score these days? My 2 year old can write a more thought out response than that. Then you look at that god awful power rankings and you have to question whether or not those are Russian bots stringing together popular words to form random sentences.

Hee-larious.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by JohnnyTitan

But in that same < 2 seconds the aggressor has time to perfectly plan on where his shoulder is going to hit the opposition?

No, I never said this. I have continued to maintain that this was an unfortunate and likely unavoidable accident. But like ALL accidents that carry with them unintended severe consequences which jeopardize safety and health it is not unreasonable to see an infraction in some form.

Aho can't protect himself but Gio certainly can perfectly make contact with ONLY Aho's torso?

Again, this is not what I am suggesting.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by JohnnyTitan

Being stationary = not predatory.

Are you suggesting he jump out of the way?

Not at all. I am suggesting that it is not unreasonable to expect a player to incur disciplinary action for dangerous plays over which he has limited control.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Ryan Pike
@RyanNPike
Per the NHL, no hearing is scheduled regarding Mark Giordano's match penalty against Carolina on Sunday afternoon. #Flames

I am pretty happy with how this played out. I think the in-game officials made the right call to eject Giordano as a discretionary measure—given the short timeframe and limited access to replays I don't have a problem with this.

I think the League made the right call by seeing that Giordano's actions were in no way predatory, and the head injury that Aho has likely sustained a very unfortunate accident. Giordano's match penalty and game misconduct ends up being the sum total of disciplinary action, which seems quite fair to me, and more importantly delivers the right message.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Not at all. I am suggesting that it is not unreasonable to expect a player to incur disciplinary action for dangerous plays over which he has limited control.

Really?

I think it is entirely unreasonable to hold a player to blame for something that could not be avoided unless fundamentally changing the way he was taught to play, and how the game is played.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I am pretty happy with how this played out. I think the in-game officials made the right call to eject Giordano as a discretionary measure—given the short timeframe and limited access to replays I don't have a problem with this.

I think the League made the right call by seeing that Giordano's actions were in no way predatory, and the head injury that Aho has likely sustained a very unfortunate accident. Giordano's match penalty and game misconduct ends up being the sum total of disciplinary action, which seems quite fair to me, and more importantly delivers the right message.

On this we agree.

[Madman]

Wes Gilbertson @WesGilbertson
#Flames captain Mark Giordano will face no further discipline for Sunday's collision with Sebastian Aho of the Hurricanes. Assessed a match penalty on ice.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Really?

I think it is entirely unreasonable to hold a player to blame for something that could not be avoided unless fundamentally changing the way he was taught to play, and how the game is played.

Here is the problem as I see it: equating responsibility with blame. Giordano is absolutely in part responsible for injuries sustained by Aho for a check he delivered which was at best borderline within the written letter and spirit of the rules. I don't see anything unreasonable with holding him partway responsible for the outcome. "Blame" suggests intent or carelessness, and neither clearly applies here.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

You can't hit people in the head, even if they dodge.

Several people have already pointed out the folly of your logic but one more time:

You can (as its possible and even probable) hit people in the head - and do - when you line up to hit them and (at high speed) they change angles at the last second.


What you're missing is that the dodging *created* the infraction.


Add to that... the correct call *was* made on the play. The referee - who saw the sequence front and centre - did NOT call it an infraction... and he had it correct.

Then he saw Aho in distress, the ensuing melee and the chorus of outrage from the fans, and they (the officials as a group) went back on it and erroneously called it an infraction caving under pressure.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Here is the problem as I see it: equating responsibility with blame. Giordano is absolutely in part responsible for injuries sustained by Aho for a check he delivered which was at best borderline within the written letter and spirit of the rules. I don't see anything unreasonable with holding him partway responsible for the outcome. "Blame" suggests intent or carelessness, and neither clearly applies here.

Not buying this.

Gio stopped moving. Feet on the ice. Elbow tucked.

He did everything he could to line him up cleanly and within the rules.

Aho's lack of awareness and reckless cutting and changing of angles last second to try and avoid the consequences of his not looking - put himself in harm's way.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Not buying this.

Gio stopped moving. Feet on the ice. Elbow tucked.

He did everything he could to line him up cleanly and within the rules.

Aho's lack of awareness and reckless cutting and changing of angles last second to try and avoid the consequences of his not looking - put himself in harm's way.

Giordano made contact with Aho's head. That is in clear violation of the rules.

Of course, Aho deserves his share of responsibility in this as well, but I find it silly to insist that Giordano is completely free of all accountability for the hit and its outcome.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Giordano made contact with Aho's head. That is in clear violation of the rules.

Of course, Aho deserves his share of responsibility in this as well, but I find it silly to insist that Giordano is completely free of all accountability for the hit and its outcome.

So if I close my eyes and subsequently drive my car into a concrete barrier then that concrete barrier has to assume some responsibility for being in my path?

Thats some pretty existential stuff.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Not buying this.

Gio stopped moving. Feet on the ice. Elbow tucked.

He did everything he could to line him up cleanly and within the rules.

Aho's lack of awareness and reckless cutting and changing of angles last second to try and avoid the consequences of his not looking - put himself in harm's way.

And that is the crux of everything being discussed.

What Giordano did was within the rules of the game...full stop.

In fact he would have been derelict in his duties to not do what he did, because the other option would have left Aho wide open 15 feet directly in front of Smith with a lot of speed and every possibility he scores.

So to further punish him beyond the incorrect call of the match penalty, would then be BLAMING him for the incident and suggesting there was another option to use beyond going against the very nature of the game and everything he has learned and been taught his entire hockey life.

That would be absurd.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by transplant99

And that is the crux of everything being discussed.

What Giordano did was within the rules of the game...full stop...

Only if it can be demonstrated that the "primary point of contact" of his hit was NOT Sebastian Aho's head. I don't think you can do that. From all the photographic and video evidence I have seen this is inconclusive.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Giordano made contact with Aho's head. That is in clear violation of the rules.

Of course, Aho deserves his share of responsibility in this as well, but I find it silly to insist that Giordano is completely free of all accountability for the hit and its outcome.

To take this to its fullest absurdity then....

If player X is skating towards player Y and dives head first into the chest/hands/arm area of player Y...you are suggesting player Y be held partly responsible for that hit and the subsequent consequences to player X?

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Giordano made contact with Aho's head. That is in clear violation of the rules.

Sorry, but it's not black and white. You're incorrect.

From one page back:

Rule 48 – Illegal Check to the Head
48.1 Illegal Check to the Head – A hit resulting in contact with an
opponent’s head where the head was the main point of contact and
such contact to the head was avoidable is not permitted.
In determining whether contact with an opponent's head was
avoidable, the circumstances of the hit including the following shall be
considered:
(i) Whether the player attempted to hit squarely through the
opponent’s body and the head was not "picked" as a result of poor
timing, poor angle of approach, or unnecessary extension of the
body upward or outward.
(ii) Whether the opponent put himself in a vulnerable position by
assuming a posture that made head contact on an otherwise full
body check unavoidable.
(iii) Whether the opponent materially changed the position of his body
or head immediately prior to or simultaneously with the hit in a way
that significantly contributed to the head contact.
48.2 Minor Penalty – For violation of this rule, a minor penalty shall be
assessed.
48.3 Major Penalty – There is no provision for a major penalty for this rule.
48.4 Game Misconduct Penalty – There is no provision for a game
misconduct for this rule.
48.5 Match Penalty – The Referee, at his discretion, may assess a match
penalty if, in his judgment, the player attempted to or deliberately
injured his opponent with an illegal check to the head.
If deemed appropriate, supplementary discipline can be applied by
the Commissioner at his discretion.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Only if it can be demonstrated that the "primary point of contact" of his hit was NOT Sebastian Aho's head. I don't think you can do that. From all the photographic and video evidence I have seen this is inconclusive.

The only reason that Aho's head was in any way part of this is because of what Aho did...nothing at all with what Giordano did....so why would you hold him responsible for doing....nothing?

Hits to the head are still going to be part of the game and as evidenced by the rules themselves not always going to be the fault of the hitter and in fact the fault of the hittee.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by transplant99

To take this to its fullest absurdity then....

If player X is skating towards player Y and dives head first into the chest/hands/arm area of player Y...you are suggesting player Y be held partly responsible for that hit and the subsequent consequences to player X?

When you carry things forward to their fullest absurdity they are clearly absurd. We do not live in that sort of world (at least, not usually).

That said, your analogy doesn't work because only one player is taking any action. Giordano did not move his feet, but he sure as hell planted that shoulder with unmistakable force into Aho's body or head. Do you honestly not see the difference?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by transplant99

The only reason that Aho's head was in any way part of this is because of what Aho did...nothing at all with what Giordano did....so why would you hold him responsible for doing....nothing?

Hits to the head are still going to be part of the game and as evidenced by the rules themselves not always going to be the fault of the hitter and in fact the fault of the hittee.

I have gone over this before. Of course hits to the head are going to occur, but I believe there is an impetus for the League to do their utmost to reduce their occurrence. I see the hit in these terms.

[calumniate]

oops nm!