Also, what's with the Twitter users writing articles through like 50 different tweets? You're missing the point of the whole platform. Just write an article somewhere else and post a link to it.
It's because Twitter is a crappy platform.
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Luke going with the intention of confronting Kylo and his rising darkness and thinking of killing him is very un-jedi like.
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Luke would have realized that he was seeing one possibility of many. He would have tried to heal of redeem Ben.
Agreed. Was pretty much expecting to see Snoke influencing Luke somehow as his actions were not at all like the Luke we saw in the trilogy.
I mean, Darth Vader was as fallen as they came to Luke and he still saw him be redeemed. Sure he saw the havoc and disaster, but he also knows that the potential to be redeemed. Heck, he struggled with the dark side himself. It was just so against character to see him rush in and even contemplating killing his nephew.
This guy did a pretty in detailed breakdown of what he saw as Lukes motivation.
For me I had no problem from the onset with Luke, having characters change and do unexpected things is how you build depth in a story, even if this were not the case a person is not the same at 19 as they are at 60. But if you need to build a story for yourself about why Luke was who he was in this movie it's a good read.
Like the twitter explanation for Luke's motivations (both of them).
Makes a lot of sense.
Re: Rey - she didn't need Jedi training because she spent her whole life alone defending herself. Luke was a looked after farmboy. Anikan was a small child. Both of them needed to learn how to fight. Rey clearly demonstrates her abilities with her staff early on.
She knows how to fix the Falcon because she's similarly been employed since the age of 4 as a technology scrapper. She knows how components work, and work together. She's also clearly smart.
She can effectively fight Kylo Ren because she's got practical experience, and he suffers from "Lindros" syndrome - his force powers have allowed him to fight without needing to be an expert in lightsaber combat (much as Lindros' size let him play with his head down for a long time).
Anyway - that's why I don't see any issue with her abilities.
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She can effectively fight Kylo Ren because she's got practical experience, and he suffers from "Lindros" syndrome - his force powers have allowed him to fight without needing to be an expert in lightsaber combat (much as Lindros' size let him play with his head down for a long time).
I thought it was the fact that he was bleeding to death from a bowcaster shot that was powerful enough to blow regular people 10 feet in the air, plus the emotional trauma of murdering dad, plus the physical exertion of fighting off Finn. and also that he's not as strong in the Force as Rey, as was demonstrated by her resistance to his mind reap. but you know, can't be all that stuff, must just be bad writing / Mary Sue-ness.
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I'm pretty sure "just got shot in the kidney by a laser cannon" is more than excuse enough.
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I thought it was the fact that he was bleeding to death from a bowcaster shot that was powerful enough to blow regular people 10 feet in the air, plus the emotional trauma of murdering dad, plus the physical exertion of fighting off Finn. and also that he's not as strong in the Force as Rey, as was demonstrated by her resistance to his mind reap. but you know, can't be all that stuff, must just be bad writing / Mary Sue-ness.
Its funny, because you had me thinking about that fight again.
Yes Kylo was badly wounded and bleeding, theoretically the pain he was in should have fueled him. That's the secret to using the DarkSide is that it gives you power by drawing on your base emotions, anger and hate and pain, whether emotional or physical.
By Ben killing his old man, it was supposed to symbolize at the time that he was fully committed to the DarkSide. We saw it in ROTS that Anakin had to basically kill those kids to cement himself to the Darkside and remove all of its conflicts.
However, i think that there are a couple of key things here.
I really don't think that he got much training from Snoke, it just didn't feel like a Sith Master Apprentice relationship. Kylo was fairly clumsy, you didn't really see him use a ton of force powers besides the Force Stasis and that mind bending thing that he does. We didn't see him throwing around Lightning and his Force pull appeared to be underwhelming.
I think that Ben/Kylo probably has a natural affinity with the Force but his ability to use it was under developed because at the time that he fought Rey, the conflict that he thought should have been gone wasn't.
Its interesting going back and looking at books like the Darth Bane books, and the Plageuis books and other books about the Dark Side users and Sith Users.
In order to be able to truly use the darkside of the force powerfully you have to commit to it.
In the Darth Bane books, Bane killed his father, Darth Zannah killed two Jedi that tried to save her. Sidious killed his entire family. Dooku its presumed murdered Sifo-Dyas. Anakin killed the Jedi including children.
The murder of someone close to you helps you get past the morality question of doing bad things to achieve a higher goal.
The other thing that was interesting in the Dark Lord book. At one point Sidious is mulling over whether Anakin/Vader will ever be a proper Sith. And he muses that the Jedi had a poor understanding of the sith based around, Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate and hate leads to suffering.
Sidious theorized that raw emotions like anger and hate were initially required to draw on the dark side and the dark side fed on those to give you greater power. But a true Sith needed to learn to get passed those emotions and control them so that you can call on those powers when you needed them. But a Sith also needed to be able to move beyond those emotions so that they could discard any sense of morality in pursuit of a higher goal.
He also revealed that while the Sith coveted power, the need for power was all about gaining it to break the chains that enslaved you and allowed you to fulfil your destiny.
Kylo Ren still hasn't gained control of those initial emotions and that's why he's not as strong as he could possibly be. He also hasn't been able to get rid of that nagging morality.
Quote:
You must begin by gaining power over yourself; then another; then a group, an order, a world, a species, a group of species… finally, the galaxy itself.”
―Darth Plagueis
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By Ben killing his old man, it was supposed to symbolize at the time that he was fully committed to the DarkSide. We saw it in ROTS that Anakin had to basically kill those kids to cement himself to the Darkside and remove all of its conflicts.
it clearly didn't work, in fact it seemed to have weakened him cause he just can't flush the light away. even Snoke berated him for the deed, saying that it shook Kylo to the core. so then he has a tantrum, gets into his TIE to blow off some steam and prove he's still badass but...can't pull the trigger on mommy. he actually seems to be losing evil as time passes. that's why it was kind of a letdown that after saying screw everything, he just decides to become the same old supreme leader. hopefully Ep 9 explores more about how he's still being dragged to the light.
"Something's happening. I'm not the Sith I should be."
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it clearly didn't work, in fact it seemed to have weakened him cause he just can't flush the light away. even Snoke berated him for the deed, saying that it shook Kylo to the core. so then he has a tantrum, gets into his TIE to blow off some steam and prove he's still badass but...can't pull the trigger on mommy. he actually seems to be losing evil as time passes. that's why it was kind of a letdown that after saying screw everything, he just decides to become the same old supreme leader. hopefully Ep 9 explores more about how he's still being dragged to the light.
I'm going to make some fairly large leaps here, so bear with me.
By killing Snoke (BTW in a very Sith like fashion) he did the one thing that Vader couldn't do, and that's murder in the pursuit of higher power. Ren made the decision to kill Snoke and seize control of the First Order, and use it has a tool to "wipe out the past". I'm convinced that once Rey failed to jump on his side to rule the Galaxy side by side that he was willing to kill her.
The fact that he was willing to kill Luke doesn't really state to me that he's evil, and that's the problem. He saw Luke as a betrayer and a failure and pretty much as the whole reason that he had to kill his father, because Luke while he might not have made Kylo Ren, certainly put the polish on someone that was already falling to the Dark Side.
In the aftermath books btw, they hint at Ben's darkness while Leia was pregnant with him, and Luke completely misread the situation.
The Kylo Ren that went down to face Luke was completely determine to kill Luke, that was a given. He had basically also stated that there were to be no prisoners or mercy on the Rebels iirc, that includes his mother and Rey.
So, I really don't think that there's a drawing to the light with him. The problem is that he's still a rage monster, and not really rational in his actions.
There's no light left in Ren now, He's committed to the darkness, and he knows that he's damned, you got that sense in that final glimpse of Rey, to me there is a symbolism of his lost chance to return when the Falcon's door closes.
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Like the twitter explanation for Luke's motivations (both of them).
Makes a lot of sense.
Re: Rey - she didn't need Jedi training because she spent her whole life alone defending herself. Luke was a looked after farmboy. Anikan was a small child. Both of them needed to learn how to fight. Rey clearly demonstrates her abilities with her staff early on.
She knows how to fix the Falcon because she's similarly been employed since the age of 4 as a technology scrapper. She knows how components work, and work together. She's also clearly smart.
She can effectively fight Kylo Ren because she's got practical experience, and he suffers from "Lindros" syndrome - his force powers have allowed him to fight without needing to be an expert in lightsaber combat (much as Lindros' size let him play with his head down for a long time).
Anyway - that's why I don't see any issue with her abilities.
This was part of what made the movie so bad....
Having Rey grow up in a troubled background and then not use that in the story was a huge waste of an opportunity. People from those backgrounds usually have severe issues. Rey's only issue was an abandonment issue, which the movie didn't properly explore. The abandonment issue is there, but it in no way actually affects Rey's actions. It would have been a much better story if Rey failed in several parts of her story due to the issues caused by her background. This is what happens with Luke. We see Luke, due to his naivity and lack of experience, fail is his first attempt to take down Vader and fail in his initial attempt at Jedi training.
Rey on the other hand speaks with a perfect Oxford accent and has knowledge of all things, despite never having proper parents or any kind of formal education. While other Jedis have shown talents in certain subjects, Rey seems to be proficient in all things. It would have just made for a better story to have Rey have some major failing. Her background allowed for a perfect setup. I'm not saying they should have made her a down and out drug addict, but something...anything would have been better.
Having characters with shades of grey and complexity is really what separates what I would call a "good movie" from your classic Disney fare. This is my major issue with the critics. Many have stated that this is a complex movie, on the level with ROJ. In reality, it's just an effects driven action movie.
China really doesn't care about Star Wars. They never have.
But Disney was really trying to change that when they put Donnie Yen and Weng Jiang into Rogue One. Maybe not make it a mega-hit, but create an acceptable, predictable return.
I don't think Luke's actions as TLJ paints them are particularly unfathomable. Sure, he intuited that Vader could potentially be redeemed, but he also witnessed the galactic destruction and misery that resulted from the rise of such darkness. In what he admitted was a moment of weakness for which he felt shame, he undertook for the briefest of moments to spare the galaxy the trouble of Vader 2.0 (it's also not clear precisely how far gone Ben Solo was by that stage).
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I don't think you can say a movie is bad just because it does not line up with the story you have made up in your head.
I think Rey was such a strong Character in #7 that they let her take a bit of a back seat developmentally in this one, with a big cast not every character can have a big development curve.
They needed to give Luke and Leia their swan song, the series demanded it.
In #7 Kylo was nearly as bad a Anakin in #3, and this movie needed to move his character forward in a big way. Which it did, I think after the Snoke scene and Luke admission we now better understand who our villain is. That is going to vital for whoever is writing #9, they now have a character who will go to the end against the resistance in a believable way.
I also think Issac's performance in the last movie gave them the opportunity to grow him as a character and they took the time to do this.
The Fin story was more about him learning why everyone else risks everything to do this, when he never had a choice. I will admit to execution on this story line could have been a little stronger, but I liked the intent and desire to put time into developing this world.
It's not a standalone movie and with the setup from this Movie, #9 now should be about Rey's triumph, to think that telling the story of who her parents weren't does not leave room to develop her character more is just a lack of imagination.
The story that was told here breaks the formula of a Jedi adventure because it is the second stanza, because it had to break to formula to setup the next movie. There was a Jedi adventure in this movie but it was window dressing on a story about personal motivation, the friends and villains that will the hero needs to undertake the great final adventure
The first movie was almost a comically archetypal Jedi adventure. The next movie should be a more complete primary hero adventure, that does not need to be comically self aware because the friends, foes and stakes have been clearly laid out for us. But if I'm wrong I'll give the movie a chance and see what it is that they have to offer before I decide that it is bad.
Wow, they managed to cover almost everything in about 6 minutes.
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I think Rey was such a strong Character in #7 that they let her take a bit of a back seat developmentally in this one, with a big cast not every character can have a big development curve.
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