My FIX for the CFL - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

mykalberta · 11-23-2006, 01:06 PM

This is more of a, if "If I had a million dollars" * 250 rant.

Me and my friends have been debating how to fix the CFL, to turn it into a respectable league rather than a "bush" league. Well here it goes.

If I was a Billionaire(say 5bil), I would spend 250 mil to buy the CFL and all teams/names/trademarks etc.

Here is how i see the teams breaking down the money:

Edmonton - 38mil (mostly due to the Stadium).
Toronto - 35mil (because of the market size and available facility)
Vancouver - 30mil (because of market size and available facility)
Calgary - 24mil (market/facility)
Montreal - 20mil (+market size -facility)
Hamilton - 20mil (facility)
Saskatchewan - 18mil (brand loyalty)
Winnipeg - 16mil

I realize some of the numbers might be off but considering an NHL team like Calgary or Edmonton is worth say 85-110mil I think those numbers are fair for a league that already has a tough time making money.

I would then institue the following:

(Immediately) Start stadium construction in Halifax for a new team - about 25-30K seats

(Immediately) Start stadium construction in Toronto for a second team - I am thinking the Richmond Hill area - about 28-35K seats

(~5 year wait) Start stadium construction in Vancouver for second team - I am thinking the New Westminster area - about 25-32K seats

(~5 Year wait) Start stadium construction in Quebec City - 25-32K seats

(Immediately) Start stadium construction in Montreal for about 28-35K seats - to replace existing stadium

That would allow for a 12 team league in the end:

West: Van1 Van2 Edm Cgy Ssk Win
East: Tor1 Tor2 Ham Mont QueC Halifax

That would also allow for a Thursday game, double header Friday, Triple Header Saturday (sometime doubleheader).

You also start a Canadian Sports channel - that is centred around the CFL but also carries other stuff for filler the rest of the year, curling etc -maybe partner with the CBC.

You have 1 draft team that could go to Colleges and High Schools in the states to recruit talent. This would also hopefully kickstart collge football in Canada - I would probably invest say 7mil/year in football related athletic scholarships for Canada as well as improving the minor football system.

I see the whole venture probably costing in the neighbourhood of 400-500mil -> upfront cost, stadiums etc - you should beable to risk share the stadiums with SoccerCanada/Rugby Canada, the cities and the provinces.

I realize its unlikely any normal business man would do this as the return on investment is maybe 2-4%/anum.

I see this as more of a Eugene Melnik/OTPP type deal. Where they have a boat load of cash, want to keep their money in Canada but dont want to waste it either.

I envision Dan Kepley from the Esks as being the head of CFL Football Operations as co CEO and someone else, likely a marketing guy as the other co CEO - maybe the "I am Canadian" marketing manager.

There would be other things but that is enough for now.

My problem is I dont see the league progressing where it needs to be by itself, when you mix community owners and private owners its just a mash of garbage. If this doesnt happen, I see the league expanding to the US in the next 10 years for expansion revenue (Canada would be better but the lack of suitable stadiums is the problem).

MYK

ken0042 · 11-23-2006, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mykalberta

(Immediately) Start stadium construction in Toronto for a second team - I am thinking the Richmond Hill area - about 28-35K seats

(~5 year wait) Start stadium construction in Vancouver for second team - I am thinking the New Westminster area - about 25-32K seats

I guess my question is this- would those areas be able to support 2 teams? Up until last season Toronto and Vancouver were at the bottom of the league for attendance; often just getting 20K people into the 50K capacity stadiums.

Cheese · 11-23-2006, 01:43 PM

Id put a team in kitchener waterloo or london before another in toronto....and on the wet coast Id put one in Victoria. I think even Saskatoon would support a rivalry with Regina.
My first two expansion teams would be Halifax and Quebec...and serious consideration to kitchener or London.

I would make the cfl a farm system of the NFL with a clause to allow 50% of rosters to be filled by Canadian players.

worth · 11-23-2006, 01:47 PM

I don't think that there's any way that either toronto or vancouver would or could support a second team. or for that matter victoria or sakatoon. Regina draws 25,000 average from the entire province. There's no way that they could suport 2 teams.

a more realistic approach (imo) to the 12 team league would be:

west
BC
Calgary
Edmonton
Saskatchewan

Central
winnipeg
Hamilton
Toronto
Windsor or another southern ontario city

east
Ottawa
Montreal
Quebec City
Halifax

Then you can have top 2 teams from each division make the playoffs or something like that.

I can definetly see Quebec city supporting a team and a huge rivalry between tham and montreal would develop.

Halifax is a bit of a wildcard. They need a stadium.

TSN purchases all the CFL games and rents some of them out to CBC. I doubt very much that TSN would let their games go to another channel. CFL games do very well consistently beating NFL games no matter when they are.

The CFL needs 10 teams and thats where i see them going. Ottawa in 08 and hopefully another out east somewhere. Not sure, but Halifax was hoping for some kind of commonwaelth or other games or something where they would get funding to build a facility that would include a stadium. not sure if that fell through, but if it did happen to go through then I could see a team in halifax.

I see 10 teams as realistic, 12 as plausible in the distant future.

And I would ABSOLUTLEY NOT make the CFL a farm team for NFL. there's no way that that would work, or fly with the majority of CFL fans. 2 different games. Seems counterproductive to me. Anyway, thats what NFL Europe is for. NFL doesn't want anything to do with Canada or the CFL.

ken0042 · 11-23-2006, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by worth

TSN purchases all the CFL games and rents some of them out to CBC.

Are you sure? That just doesn't make any sense to me. Why would TSN not be airing the playoff and Grey Cup games? I would think that just like other sports, the networks bid on the different games. In fact a few years ago the CFL told CBC that if they didn't start picking up games before Labour Day, then they would give the playoffs and the Grey Cup to TSN.

Quote:

Originally Posted by worth

NFL doesn't want anything to do with Canada or the CFL.

Doesn't the NFL have something in place with the CFL now? Not a farm system, but they do give the CFL a bunch of cash for opperations; because it is in their best interest to have a lesser league in North America.

worth · 11-23-2006, 02:17 PM

I'm 99% positive TSN purchases all the games from the CFL. They then turn around and sell CBC what games they want including playoffs.

It might be a stipulation in the contract or something. The CFL wants CBC to air the playoffs because they will get bigger numbers. Everyone with a TV in Canada can get CBC. You need cable to get TSN obviously.

Now that doesn't mean that the CBC won't totally pull out of the CFL and leave it for TSN/CTV. I haev heard of that idea. They would air the grey cup on CTV because more people get that channel also.

Yeah, there is an agreement between the CFL and NFL however I don't know the specifics. What I was getting at is that the NFL doesn't want to expand into Canada right now, no matter how much Toronto wants it, and they already have thier own farm league in NFLEurope. They don't need the CFL and i'm not so sure they'd want to take on a league with some of the problems the CFL has had. The NFL has become a great league by making smart decisions. Purchasing the CFL wouldn't be very smart IMO. And thats not a diss against the CFL. The CFL is my favourite league with the NHL a close second.

Here's an article on the agreement:

http://www.wowfootball.com/modules.p...rticle&sid=325

It doens't really have anything to do with the CFL, rather its players.

ken0042 · 11-23-2006, 02:25 PM

I see what you are saying.

I suppose it is possible that TSN had an agreement with CBC, but I can see that changing because now you no longer need cable to get TSN. Anybody in Canada with a view of the southern sky can get TSN. Of course that is a seperate discussion all together.

JohnnyFlame · 11-23-2006, 02:30 PM

I would broker a deal with the NFL and eventually ESPN/TSN. We would become a developmental league for them with secure financing in place for every team. Plus the money to upgrade all the stadiums. Bring in the NFL expertise with advertising/marketing etc. and a consistent brand of football.

Good stadiums and a well run league -- Fans would forget the Mickey Mouse CFL version dang near instantly.

Frank@75 · 11-23-2006, 02:50 PM

Excellant post. The number one problem with the CFL is the conditions
of the stadiums. The Hamilton Stadium is a disaster that Harold Ballard
tried to get bulldozed twenty years ago. With a dual (football/soccer) facility in Hamilton, average football crowds of 35,000 would be very possible. There is talk in Toronto about a 30,000 seat stadium for soocer in North York, I don't know where that is going. There is also talk in Winnipeg about a new home for the Bombers.

The bottom line is that the goverment can spend hundreds of millions of dollars on projects that are politically correct, but hold the purse strings
on facilities that may help private team owners, even though the fans of these teams are taxpayers and voters as well.

worth · 11-23-2006, 02:51 PM

You know, I have been watching some of the grey cups from the 90's on fox sports world and they were carried on ESPN2! Games that didn't even involve American teams were broadcast. Amazing. Hell, ESPN8 won't even broadcast NHL games with American teams, let alone CFL games now a days.

I can agree that the CFL needs some better marketing. I mean, hell, we need to turn these guys into heros. In the states commercials have nfl players in them. Lets get some of these CFL players out there. Get some sponsorship going and get people involved and aware of the league.

And I didn't know you don't need cable to get TSN anymore. interesting.

And here, found something about TSN selling games to CBC:

"TSN is the master rights-holder for the CFL, but sublicenses selected games, including the playoffs, to CBC."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TSN

RedHot25 · 11-23-2006, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mykalberta

(Immediately) Start stadium construction in Halifax for a new team - about 25-30K seats

(~5 year wait) Start stadium construction in Vancouver for second team - I am thinking the New Westminster area - about 25-32K seats

Have you lived in/been to either of these places?

1) Halifax

Its a nice area, but the economics is just not here, I'm sorry. Its a very fragile economic situation. Yes, it may have 3 - 400,000 people....but..I just question the economic viability here.

Also, they aren't as big on the CFL - NFL is definately big here (more than what naturally occurs across the country).

And the stadium iproblem s huge. They don't have one. Period. I know that you are advocating building one if you had the $$, but....one won't be built here unless they get the Commonwealth Games.

Anyways, I just can't see it.

2) New Westminister

As Ken said, Vancouver has a hard enough time supporting 1 team, let alone another.

IF you did put another team in there, why New West? Same thing as Halifax above. It is one of the poorer areas of the Vancouver region and is quite rundown in certain spots etc. I just don't see that area being able to financially support a team. If anything you go towards Richmond (likely too close) or out Coquitlam/Port Coquitlam/Port Moody/etc way.

Just my thoughts anyways.

cheers.

worth · 11-23-2006, 03:13 PM

Just though of one other thing, we're talking about fixing the CFL...well, the CFL is pretty much the strongest it's been in years. I think we're on the right track with things and doesn't really need to be fixed. It can be improved upon for sure, but we have been going the right way.

I mean, every game was on TV, attendance is stable and approaching an average of 29,000 a game which is great, a team will be back in Ottawa, stable ownership in pretty much all the franchises, a salary management system and over 4 million people watching the grey cup! Seems pretty good to me.

The one reservation I have is the new comissioner. Hopefully they can find someone as good or better than Mr. Wright. I think it's a shame they forced him out. Best comissioner the CFL has had in a long time IMO. I just really hope we don't get some yes man that will nose dive the CFL out of it's current success doing the bidding of the BOG rather than whats right for the league.

That's the economic side...I suppose there are a few things to do that can make the onfield entertainment better. Games wern't as exciting this year unfortunatley. Hopefully we can bring a bit of that excitement back next year, even though I really enjoyed this year. I guess thats just because i'm a hardcore CFL fan and will watch the most boring CFL game with undivided attention.

Sidney Crosby's Hat · 11-23-2006, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Here is how i see the teams breaking down the money:

Edmonton - 38mil (mostly due to the Stadium).
Toronto - 35mil (because of the market size and available facility)
Vancouver - 30mil (because of market size and available facility)
Calgary - 24mil (market/facility)
Montreal - 20mil (+market size -facility)
Hamilton - 20mil (facility)
Saskatchewan - 18mil (brand loyalty)
Winnipeg - 16mil

You're paying way too much for almost all these teams. Consider the last time the Stamps sold it was for something like $8 million was it not? When Ottawa re-joined the league it cost $4 million in expansion fees.

Also, Calgary doesn't own the facility - the U of C does.

KTown · 11-23-2006, 04:41 PM

If I had 5 billion I would buy the CFL

FOLD THE DAMN LEAGUE.

OPEN UP AN NFL FRANCHISE IN TORONTO

worth · 11-23-2006, 05:13 PM

If you really don't like it that much, why don't you just ignore it and leave the millions of people who do like it alone.

calgaryrocks · 11-23-2006, 05:14 PM

if i had 5 billion i would provide a hd truck to cbc so they can do east and west finals in high def. i would put a team in ottawa and place ads on tv for the cfl. i would tell halifax and quebec city that whatever city can get people to buy the most season tickets i will build them a stadum so that they can have thier team. i would create buy time on every canadian channel and every american channel that we see in canada and put cfl ads on them. i would pay tsn to not show the nfl, just focus on the cfl and make the tv production better. i would set up a pension program for cfl players on par with the nfl. i would add 10000 seats in montreal, 5000 in hamilton and market the game in border states such as maine, new york, south dakota and wisconson. put a team in windsor and market it to detroit fans if halifax/quebec city doesnt work. make it so that either canadian players dont count under the salary cap or just canadian qbs dont count under the cap, encouraging canadians to try to play qb.
would give teams with higher fan support more room under the cap. grey cup game would be cycled through all the cfl cities. protect the league from certain canadians who want the league to fold for some reason(maybe because they are hoping for an nfl team or dont like canadian football so much they dont want the millions of canadians who watch it weekly to enjoy it)

calgaryrocks · 11-23-2006, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTown

If I had 5 billion I would buy the CFL

FOLD THE DAMN LEAGUE.

OPEN UP AN NFL FRANCHISE IN TORONTO

you keep saying this but why would you want to fold a league and toronto will never get an nfl team, if the cfl were to fold the nfl would never come to a country that couldnt support its own game. a toronto team would not have the atmosphere that the nfl teams get becuase canada is a different country and i understand the atmospher and tailgating experience at nfl games i very important to you. if you want this type of fan support its up to people to change, not the type of football.

Red Mile Style · 11-23-2006, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheese

Id put a team in kitchener waterloo or london before another in toronto....and on the wet coast Id put one in Victoria. I think even Saskatoon would support a rivalry with Regina.
My first two expansion teams would be Halifax and Quebec...and serious consideration to kitchener or London.

I would make the cfl a farm system of the NFL with a clause to allow 50% of rosters to be filled by Canadian players.

Whoa... you just blew my mind!!!

Two teams in Sask?!?!?!

I don't know if I should giggle uncontrollably, or cry at the thought of dividing the fans.

I bet there would be a pretty fierce rivalry between the two. The commute to Regina probably thwarts a lot of fans from the North of Sask... so it might work.

Yeah, I would do that. And as many on here have mentioned, there needs to be a maritime team in there... Even if it's a team that represents more than just Halifax or Nova Scotia, I'm thinking something like "the maritime lobsters" or something along those lines. Quebec city, obviously is an untapped market. Get Ottawa back running. Victoria is an interesting thought, but is there a stadium there as well?

What about Thunder Bay?

Resolute 14 · 11-23-2006, 10:50 PM

Centralized ownership is a bad idea.

Someone in an office in Calgary has no idea whatsoever what the needs of the Vancouver, Montreal or Toronto markets are.

Cheese · 11-24-2006, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Mile Style

Whoa... you just blew my mind!!!

Two teams in Sask?!?!?!

I don't know if I should giggle uncontrollably, or cry at the thought of dividing the fans.

I bet there would be a pretty fierce rivalry between the two. The commute to Regina probably thwarts a lot of fans from the North of Sask... so it might work.

Yeah, I would do that. And as many on here have mentioned, there needs to be a maritime team in there... Even if it's a team that represents more than just Halifax or Nova Scotia, I'm thinking something like "the maritime lobsters" or something along those lines. Quebec city, obviously is an untapped market. Get Ottawa back running. Victoria is an interesting thought, but is there a stadium there as well?

What about Thunder Bay?

Tunder Bay is too isolated. Same with the Sault. Cant see that market supporting a team as there is no community close by...just Tunder Bay.
If another team camer to Ontario it would have to be Suthn Ontario...KW is 500,000 people...London is 600,000. Someone mentioned Windsor, but I dont think theyd support it as Detroit is right across the river and Id assume they go to Lions games....but then with the Lions as suckage maybe theyd draw Lions fans across the border? LOL
As to Saskatoon...many here think that Regina draws a ton of Tooners to its games...but thats not true.