Harper: Quebec is its own nation within Canada... - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

transplant99 · 11-23-2006, 09:56 AM

Capitulate, bend over, give and give more....

Ugh.

though it may turn out to be a clever move politically, I just cant stand the thought of seperation talk becoming a big issue again.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americ....ap/index.html

jolinar of malkshor · 11-23-2006, 10:10 AM

This announcement doesn't really bother me.....but I have a little less respect for Harper now as he decided to sellout instead of standing up and saying all Canada is the same. Yes it might help him in the election but he is selling out his values for votes. Typical politician.

Table 5 · 11-23-2006, 10:15 AM

I don't know if this is anything other than just semantics. It lets the quebecois feel more special or something, but it doesnt actually seem to do anything of any importance.

Table 5 · 11-23-2006, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fotze

Some families have a hyperactive child who likes to where a hockey helmet wherever they go and the family accepts them for what they are and they allow them to where that helmet to the mall, I say let Quebec have their special status.

so fotze, you still have that helmet around somewhere?

skins · 11-23-2006, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

This announcement doesn't really bother me.....but I have a little less respect for Harper now as he decided to sellout instead of standing up and saying all Canada is the same. Yes it might help him in the election but he is selling out his values for votes. Typical politician.

how is this Harper selling out? This new classification is akin to how First Nations people are considered a "Nation within a unified Canada". I think it's both appropriate and accurate. Harper repeated several times in his speech that Quebec is not a sovereign nation, and it never will be.

And the Liberals agree with him.

habernac · 11-23-2006, 10:20 AM

I'm torn on this issue. Where does it stop? Is Quebec a distinct society? It sure is. You can also make that argument for the rest of this country as well. How about Newfoundland? Nova Scotia? Nunavut? Yukon? Alberta? etc, etc, etc..... We're all different and special.

Resolute 14 · 11-23-2006, 10:25 AM

Quebec is a province, nothing more, and that will never change no matter what we let them call themselves.

Scorponok · 11-23-2006, 10:26 AM

Good political move by Harper! He really doesn't give anything away, and he squelches any chance the Bloc or the Liberals can use this as an issue to gain votes in Quebec.

And the title of the thread is a bit misleading too. Harper stated the 'Quebecois' is a distinct nation inside Canada, not Quebec. Quebecois, meaning the people of Quebec, i.e. the French speaking. Not Quebec as a political identity.

And I totally agree. The French Canadians ARE different from us, as they have their own distinct cultural values and thinking. Just like the west and Ontario does.

Stephan Harper has always defended provincial rights, and this is one way to acknowledge that. Yes, we are all Canadians, but we aren't all the same. Each province has it's own wants, needs, and culture that makes us different, yet, we are one under the great country that is Canada.

jolinar of malkshor · 11-23-2006, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skins

how is this Harper selling out? This new classification is akin to how First Nations people are considered a "Nation within a unified Canada". I think it's both appropriate and accurate. Harper repeated several times in his speech that Quebec is not a sovereign nation, and it never will be.

And the Liberals agree with him.

I agree...but Harper has always been against giving Quebec any special treatment. Thats what I mean when I say sell out.

skins · 11-23-2006, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

I agree...but Harper has always been against giving Quebec any special treatment. Thats what I mean when I say sell out.

I don't see any special treatment. You said you agree that the Quebecois are indeed a unique nation of people, which they are. The fact that we are officially acknowledging it is not special treatment. As long as they aren't getting any more money or benefits that aren't extended to other Canadians, I don't see any problem.

jolinar of malkshor · 11-23-2006, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skins

I don't see any special treatment. You said you agree that the Quebecois are indeed a unique nation of people, which they are. The fact that we are officially acknowledging it is not special treatment. As long as they aren't getting any more money or benefits that aren't extended to other Canadians, I don't see any problem.

This is special treatment....as far as I am concerned. I said I had no problem it. Quebce has always been given special treatment, always.

octothorp · 11-23-2006, 10:53 AM

Predictably, the Bloc has a counter-proposal, wanting the wording of the declaration to be that Quebec is a nation currently within Canada.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/...on-quebec.html

photon · 11-23-2006, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by octothorp

Predictably, the Bloc has a counter-proposal, wanting the wording of the declaration to be that Quebec is a nation currently within Canada.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/...on-quebec.html

Aaaannnd here we go...

GreenTeaFrapp · 11-23-2006, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scorponok

And the title of the thread is a bit misleading too. Harper stated the 'Quebecois' is a distinct nation inside Canada, not Quebec. Quebecois, meaning the people of Quebec, i.e. the French speaking. Not Quebec as a political identity.

And I totally agree. The French Canadians ARE different from us, as they have their own distinct cultural values and thinking. Just like the west and Ontario does.

Quebecois != French Canadian

Many Franco-Ontarians consider it an insult to be called a Quebecer.

Frank the Tank · 11-23-2006, 11:20 AM

I'm tired of the separation issue as well. I say we just kick them out. That'll solve all the seperation issues.

mykalberta · 11-23-2006, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

This announcement doesn't really bother me.....but I have a little less respect for Harper now as he decided to sellout instead of standing up and saying all Canada is the same. Yes it might help him in the election but he is selling out his values for votes. Typical politician.

Have you forgot what Country we live in. Right of Centre voters must capitulate on the softer issues in order to maintain government status.

Alberta and Eastern BC care about morales and that other BS.

Ontario and QC - are where you have to at least come close second for any hope, and these are the same places that care about the enviro but any mention of legistlation over car emissions they say wow - back up FU environment.

Harper is doing what he must in Canada to win, and that is play the Liberals game of - ok we will pass Kyoto - but wait car plants in Ontario already comply so they are exempt

. If you arent sucking off ON and QC in Canada you will never win in Canada.

The Cons have already given up on votes in downton TO and VanCity, they have put most of their eggs in the Charest basked and are hoping it works out - is a big gamble but you dont win the lottery if you dont buy a ticket.

Harper's motion was one to stop the Bloc's QC momentum - it also has the added bonus of the Libs now pretty much having to support it and this removing it as an election issue.

If you ask me, removing QC and the famed "Cons are in bed with big business" issues off the table in the next election, Harper has done pretty damn good job - also the paying for the Lebs evacuation also removes the ever so popular far left race card from showing up. Yes he has brought the whole 180 on trusts into the mix but the Libs arent going to campaign saying they will reinstate it so the Trust issue vs GST/Nafta should equal out.

MYK

flamesfever · 11-23-2006, 12:19 PM

Some may say, "This is a slippery slope to separation", but the slippery slope is there regardless. It seems to me that declaring Quebec a "nation within Canada" may make it crystal clear to the Quebecois that they now have the recogition they need, and that there is nothing to gain by leaving Canada, especially financially.

Calgaryborn · 11-23-2006, 12:43 PM

I actually heard this on the socialist CBC radio last night. They actually said Harper and the Conservatives came up with a solution that the Liberals have failed to for X-numbers of years in two days. That is the first positive thing I've ever heard them say about the Conservatives. Harper is a genius.

Actually I think it is in the best interest of Canadians to give more authority to the provinces and downsize the federal government. This would be good for the West as well as Quebec. Also, everything that goes wrong in Quebec wouldn't be blamed on the Feds but rather the provincial party in power. The would defuse separatist talk on both sides of the country.

arsenal · 11-23-2006, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Actually I think it is in the best interest of Canadians to give more authority to the provinces and downsize the federal government. This would be good for the West as well as Quebec. Also, everything that goes wrong in Quebec wouldn't be blamed on the Feds but rather the provincial party in power. The would defuse separatist talk on both sides of the country.

We could be the United Nations of Canada

mykalberta · 11-23-2006, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

I actually heard this on the socialist CBC radio last night. They actually said Harper and the Conservatives came up with a solution that the Liberals have failed to for X-numbers of years in two days. That is the first positive thing I've ever heard them say about the Conservatives. Harper is a genius.

Actually I think it is in the best interest of Canadians to give more authority to the provinces and downsize the federal government. This would be good for the West as well as Quebec. Also, everything that goes wrong in Quebec wouldn't be blamed on the Feds but rather the provincial party in power. The would defuse separatist talk on both sides of the country.

I saw that as well, I also PVR Politics with Don Newman and he even had to say Harper looked VERY Priministerial.

Strange, I didnt see this having a very big effect but who knows.

MYK