The Last Jedi Spoiler thread

[CaptainCrunch]

So some background into Snoke was given in the Visual Dictionary

https://www.cbr.com/last-jedi-visual...-snoke-origin/

Spoiler!

“Snoke’s retinue includes mute alien navigators who originated in the Unknown Regions,” reads the passage that appears beneath a photo of Snoke’s purple-robed attendants. “Were it not for the ancient hyperspace trails blazed by these towering servants, the Imperial survivors who fled into this uncharted realm would certainly have perished. These navigators designed and operated the oculus viewing scope in Snoke’s throne room.”
Admittedly, this isn’t a whole lot to go off of, but the fact that this excerpt mentions the Unknown Regions is of particular interest. After the fall of the Galactic Empire, former members of the Imperial Military convened in the Unknown Regions to plot their inevitable resurgence. Inspired by the Empire’s ideals, the group sought to overcome the flaws of their predecessors, and as such, they formed the First Order, which would eventually emerge in the known galaxy with Supreme Leader Snoke as its figurehead.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear

Lots of really interesting points...one scene that really stood out to me was when Leia slapped Poe...

WTF was that?

Not only out of character for Leia, also very strange to have a commanding officer beating a subordinate...on the good guys side.

Poe deserved a slapping.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Poe deserved a slapping.

Honestly he deserved a lot more then that, in any normal chain of command, good pilot of not, he's probably sitting in the brig at best. Or shoved out an airlock.

After the mutiny he would have been hung.

[Tinordi]

Why is it so hard to accept that Rey is just really powerful with the force?

Why is it so hard to accept that Snoke's back story isn't important to this main story arc?

Why is it so hard to accept that Rey isn't a Skywalker, a Kenobi, a Palpatine, a Porg. I mean, wait a minute, that's it isn't it? Who could Rey possibly be besides those three that would lead to any satisfaction for the nerd brigade? If you find out that Rey was Qui Gon's granddaughter would that make you feel happy? No? So infact the lineage of Rey is either so damn narrow that's it's predictable and lame: ie. Palpatine's niece, or Kenobi's second cousin, or she's done secondary character's lineage that no one cares about.

And let's be completely clear here. This trilogy of movies is aggressively unconcerned with anything to do with extended universe (thank God). So no Rey being the love child of Darth Buttface and Mara Jade was never going to happen. Please, let that sink in.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Honestly he deserved a lot more then that, in any normal chain of command, good pilot of not, he's probably sitting in the brig at best. Or shoved out an airlock.

After the mutiny he would have been hung.

I still struggle with why they didn't just tell Poe what they were doing.

The only logic I can think of is that they hoped he would do something brash and crazy that might actually work better than their plan.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Why is it so hard to accept that Rey is just really powerful with the force?

Why is it so hard to accept that Snoke's back story isn't important to this main story arc?

Why is it so hard to accept that Rey isn't a Skywalker, a Kenobi, a Palpatine, a Porg. I mean, wait a minute, that's it isn't it? Who could Rey possibly be besides those three that would lead to any satisfaction for the nerd brigade? If you find out that Rey was Qui Gon's granddaughter would that make you feel happy? No? So infact the lineage of Rey is either so damn narrow that's it's predictable and lame: ie. Palpatine's niece, or Kenobi's second cousin, or she's done secondary character's lineage that no one cares about.

And let's be completely clear here. This trilogy of movies is aggressively unconcerned with anything to do with extended universe (thank God). So no Rey being the love child of Darth Buttface and Mara Jade was never going to happen. Please, let that sink in.

I actually don't mind Rey being a nobody. Her mastering the force, where every other character had to have extensive training is a bit much. Her being a master at piloting and repairing the Falcon is a bit much. Her being able to go toe to toe with Kylo after picking up a light sabre for the first time is a bit much. She's by far the most overpowered character ever in this universe.

The Snoke thing is annoying, as they hinted at him having a great back story. It's not all encompassing the way the super Rey thing is though. The Rey thing is just bad writing.

[Ashasx]

The dark side is the easy way to power, unless you're Rey.

Rey is designed to sell dolls and give little girls somebody to dress up on halloween. She is pure, faultless, and boring.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by blankall

I actually don't mind Rey being a nobody. Her mastering the force, where every other character had to have extensive training is a bit much. Her being a master at piloting and repairing the Falcon is a bit much. Her being able to go toe to toe with Kylo after picking up a light sabre for the first time is a bit much. She's by far the most overpowered character ever in this universe.

The Snoke thing is annoying, as they hinted at him having a great back story. It's not all encompassing the way the super Rey thing is though. The Rey thing is just bad writing.

I agree with everything accept this one people cite that I don't agree with.

Rey had shown herself very capable with her staff, a weapon not very unlike a lightsaber. And who says Ren is some master swordsman? His trainer was Luke, who had absolutely zero lightsaber experience before going toe-to-toe with Darth Vader (something no one seems to really care about). And never received any from any of his trainers. Why should any of Luke's students be good with a sword?

[Ashasx]

A lightsaber is completely unweighted. In every instance of Star Wars lore that involves lightsaber training, it is explained as an extremely difficult weapon to use.

Unless you're Rey.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

A lightsaber is completely unweighted. In every instance of Star Wars lore that involves lightsaber training, it is explained as an extremely difficult weapon to use.

Unless you're Rey.

Again, Luke was taught by...?

The point is she knew how to wield a hand-held weapon.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by blankall

I actually don't mind Rey being a nobody. Her mastering the force, where every other character had to have extensive training is a bit much. Her being a master at piloting and repairing the Falcon is a bit much. Her being able to go toe to toe with Kylo after picking up a light sabre for the first time is a bit much. She's by far the most overpowered character ever in this universe.

Anakin was building ships and racing them against professional racers and won in his first race. Kylo, they tried to pro wrestling that with him taking a shot from Chewies Uber gun. Sounds like, if anything, her lineage is a new Anakin. Birthed by the force. She asks the dark chamber to show her where she comes from, and the chamber shows her... herself. Could it be she is another immaculate conception of the force and the new Anakin? Would her "overpoweredness" be acceptable then?

The Snoke thing is annoying, as they hinted at him having a great back story. It's not all encompassing the way the super Rey thing is though. The Rey thing is just bad writing.

Honest question, when did they hint that he had a back story let alone a great one?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Why is it so hard to accept that Rey is just really powerful with the force?

Why is it so hard to accept that Snoke's back story isn't important to this main story arc?

Why is it so hard to accept that Rey isn't a Skywalker, a Kenobi, a Palpatine, a Porg. I mean, wait a minute, that's it isn't it? Who could Rey possibly be besides those three that would lead to any satisfaction for the nerd brigade? If you find out that Rey was Qui Gon's granddaughter would that make you feel happy? No? So infact the lineage of Rey is either so damn narrow that's it's predictable and lame: ie. Palpatine's niece, or Kenobi's second cousin, or she's done secondary character's lineage that no one cares about.

And let's be completely clear here. This trilogy of movies is aggressively unconcerned with anything to do with extended universe (thank God). So no Rey being the love child of Darth Buttface and Mara Jade was never going to happen. Please, let that sink in.

Believe it or not, I completely agree with you. But the thing that happens when you get a multi-generational series of films that basically covers nearly 100 years of history is that fans want the links between the series. Its just naturally going to happen, especially in a science fiction franchise, and frankly Lucas was about that type of minute detail. Disney however is not, and they're almost like reformers of the book, they want as few links as possible to the previous movies. That's why it was so easy for them to kill off Solo, have Luke flutter off after what amounts to a detailed cameo, and have the franchise put in the hands of an entirely new group of characters.

I would argue that it was probably a big debate at Disney about having Ren as a Solo.

And I doubt that the EU would ever have been seriously considered for this movie. Frankly the books that took place in legends post ROTJ weren't great stories that could be made into movies.

However to me the books that took place in the prequel universe were for the most part very good, and a lot of the old republic were really good because the only link with the movies was the Force.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Again, Luke was taught by...?

The point is she knew how to wield a hand-held weapon.

He was taught by a too tight blast helmet and a floating sting ball.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

The dark side is the easy way to power, unless you're Rey.

I'm confused, didn't TLJ explicitly point out that Rey is connected to the dark side? Wouldn't that again be another source of her power? And isn't the light/dark side dynamic being overly questioned, that you can channel the "dark" side without becoming dark?

[Ashasx]

We've been told Rey might be linked to the dark side. We've seen nonsensical visions in caves, but no actual moral dilemma for her to conquer.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Again, Luke was taught by...?

Obi Wan Kenobi & Yoda

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

We've been told Rey might be linked to the dark side. We've seen nonsensical visions in caves, but no actual moral dilemma for her to conquer.

I would agree with that. I'll say having just come back from my 2nd viewing, she definitely uses her rage to fight.

I think/hope Finn will have a role to play in her dilemma as he's seen that people are playing both sides and, especially with the Resistance so thin, he could end up pulling her more into the grey.

But probably not. It's Disney so it will be a Kylo/Rey love story where they get married at the end and make more babies they can make more movies about.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Obi Wan Kenobi & Yoda

When?

He spent a day with Kenobi and all of a week with Yoda.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by MattyC

When?

He spent a day with Kenobi and all of a week with Yoda.

In Empire he doesn't have much skill and gets his hand chopped off. If not for jumping down the exhaust shaft, he'd easily be killed by Vader.
This is about the reasonable skill level Rey should be at.

ROTJ is supposed to take place about 1 year after Empire and 4 years after ANH. When we first see Luke in ROTJ, he is evolved, and his increased training and understanding of the force is shown throughout the movie from how he's dressed, his demeanour when entering Jaba's ship and his interactions with Yoda. This is a new Luke who has had time to hone his skills.

You have taken his time with Yoda to be 1 week, but in actuality it is implied to be a year in full training with Yoda (and Force Ben would be logical too).

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Anakin was building ships and racing them against professional racers and won in his first race. Kylo, they tried to pro wrestling that with him taking a shot from Chewies Uber gun. Sounds like, if anything, her lineage is a new Anakin. Birthed by the force. She asks the dark chamber to show her where she comes from, and the chamber shows her... herself. Could it be she is another immaculate conception of the force and the new Anakin? Would her "overpoweredness" be acceptable then?



Honest question, when did they hint that he had a back story let alone a great one?

No, because Anakin was found and trained from the time he was a child by existing Jedi's. Literally nothing you or anyone else has said, including the script of TLJ, explains why anyone should buy her meteoric and perfect rise to legendary force user. If you are happy with it that's great, but its terrible character development.

Someone mentioned it previously but I am inclined to believe that Disney wanted their Star Wars princess and they put that ahead of giving the character any real depth. She is more of a prop than a real character at this point.