Im comparing the performance of the Last Jedi to Empire and AOTC. In Star Wars Films the Reception hasn't mattered. AOTC was terrible and Empire was great box office drops Relative to their predecessors were the same.
AOTC and Empire were both poorly received. AOTC followed the Phantom Menace, which was also horrible. That was more an issue of people losing faith in the prequels. Empire, at the time of its release, was not well received:
You're looking at very unique situations to draw a predetermined conclusion of yours.
Star Wars was Star Wars. The second all-time adjusted movie behind only Gone With the Wind. You can't compare it to anything else really.
Star Wars the Phantom Menace was a huge let down after a significant wait and huge hype. It was not surprising that Attack of the Clones faltered as significantly as it did.
But take a look at the Lord of the Rings, it increased with each movie.
The Dark Knight made over double what Batman Begins did.
Even Iron Man 2 did as good as Iron Man and that was with a relatively weak The Incredible Hulk between the two in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.
Harry Potter only dropped to 83% from Philosopher's Stone to Chamber of Secrets. And again, Harry Potter was its own phenomenon.
If The Last Jedi gets under 70% of The Force Awaken's domestic gross, that's definitely not what they were expecting and almost certainly (in part) has to be attributed to its mixed reviews.
That article specifically identifies the scenario we are in. Least leggy and opens 8% below Force Awakens. Neither which have anything to do with reviews but instead the structure of the modern releases becoming more front loaded all the time. You say Star Wars can only be compare to Star Wars than TFA can only be compared to TFA. TFA's 1 billion 11 th in unadjusted gross. Also if you remove the 30 million tickets from special edition release you get a first run of Star Wars with 148 million tickets compared to TFAs 108 million. Both ridiculous numbers compared to anything in that generation.
For example Jurassic world sold 80 million tickets and is the next closest post 2000 release whereas Star Wars had ET at 141 million - the extra releases. So both of these movies were unprecedented events relative to their peers.
So if you say you can't compare Star Wars than you can't compare TFA. By tickets sold both dwarf anything their peer movies did. And like Empire, TLJ only performed as well as the biggest other movies in the time period.
Jesus man. The only way to make Star Wars more boring than trade negotiations is to talk about sales numbers endlessly.
Star Wars Episode 9: 4th Quarter Sales Analysis versus Projected Figures.
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The Galactic Council of Evil Disney Board of Directors sat down to determine acceptable revenue figures for its largest release and, while still generating billions of dollars a consensus cannot be reached about whether its enough.
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I really wish they had taken one - just one - lore-thing from all of the previous movies and turned it on its head. So that when you rewatch them all (prequels or OT, preferably both), you see something a different way.
They could have done that with Rey's lineage (Kenobi, Skywalker, Palpatine, etc), or with Snoke being someone or something mentioned (even being Darth Plagueis kinda works), or they could've woven in any kind of lore that makes you look at things differently in the other trilogies. Just one thing would've made me happy.
If we had found out Sideous was still whispering into Snoke and Ren's heads from the grave I would've liked it; or if we found out that Darth Vader had many illegitimate children; or that Anakin was just one virgin birth and that Darth Jesús was born around the same time; or that Yoda was secretly trying to end the Jedi order himself for some reason.
These movies are really low on lore and high on melodrama. The lore is what I've always been interested in Star Wars, and really any fantasy series. I think it's what kids like too - so I feel like they've dropped the ball - as that's what got me and everyone I know so into Star Wars in the first place.
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You say Star Wars can only be compare to Star Wars than TFA can only be compared to TFA.
Sure. I'm just saying it's not at all a good method to compare the drop from the other very different circumstance Star War trilogies to say that this met expectations and it's drop has nothing to do with the reviews.
It opened at 220 million compared to 242 million. 91%, it's not like we're talking it tanking open day here. It still did incredibly well.
But what it failed to do, that The Force Awaken did, was continue to see insane numbers. While The Force Awaken had 90% of people come out and say how good it was, the The Last Jedi (according to the fake news Rotten Tomatoes, which was taken down by the hacker known as 4chan) only has 50% coming out of theatres claiming it was good to great. If you don't think that's affecting ticket sales, I'm not sure what to tell you.
who cares about fuel, the first order fleet might not be able to continuously accelerate fast enough to catch the rebels a sub-light but they all have hyperdrives. They just need to ftl jump half their feet in front of the rebels, turn around and trap them in the middle
Sure. I'm just saying it's not at all a good method to compare the drop from the other very different circumstance Star War trilogies to say that this met expectations and it's drop has nothing to do with the reviews.
It opened at 220 million compared to 242 million. 91%, it's not like we're talking it tanking open day here. It still did incredibly well.
But what it failed to do, that The Force Awaken did, was continue to see insane numbers. While The Force Awaken had 90% of people come out and say how good it was, the The Last Jedi (according to the fake news Rotten Tomatoes, which was taken down by the hacker known as 4chan) only has 50% coming out of theatres claiming it was good to great. If you don't think that's affecting ticket sales, I'm not sure what to tell you.
It's not performing like a sequel with poor reviews though. Look at Avengers: Age of Ultron with 41% of gross on opening day or Justice league with 41% or batman vs superman with 50%. If it never earned another Dollar it would support your Naritive of it underperforming due to reviews. You would expect given the huge opening number it should be easier to be front loaded but it hasn't instead its looking at about a 3 multiplier by the time it's done.
It isn't as leggy as the biggest movie in the past 20 years. That isn't a surprise and in my opinion wasn't on the table.
Did you care why Vader was so powerful in episode 4,5 and 6? Did you care what his background was? And then the prequels came and we found out Anakin sprouted from nothing powerful in the force...the beginning of the Skywalker lineage.
Vader was already powerful but there's implied reasoning, training and years of lead up for him being in that position of power.
We don't see those years on the screen until the prequels but it's clearly an important part of the story that they exist. Important enough to make episodes 1,2 & 3 to tell that story.
We meet Rey at a point where she has none of those and then suddenly has Vader like powers without explanation. She's able to overpower Luke and put him on his ass without any training.
However with Rey there is supposedly no backstory to uncover, no training, no mentorship, no future movies to tell us how Rey became the ultimate force power in the universe. She just is.
I really wish they had taken one - just one - lore-thing from all of the previous movies and turned it on its head. So that when you rewatch them all (prequels or OT, preferably both), you see something a different way.
... or if we found out that Darth Vader had many illegitimate children ...
I actually like this idea. It could have worked similar to Battlestar Galactica. ... wondering who the Cylons were.
There could have been an ongoing, underlying mystery as to who the 'sleeper' Sith offspring were within the Resistance.
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However with Rey there is supposedly no backstory to uncover, no training, no mentorship, no future movies to tell us how Rey became the ultimate force power in the universe. She just is.
There's still one more movie to go though. I have a feeling Abrams will delve a bit more into her past, either in flashbacks, or perhaps she gets a visit from Yoda who helps her fill in some of the gaps. She obviously became a skilled fighter with her staff while growing up as a scavenger on Jakku, and it makes sense that she could easily transfer those skills to a light saber. Did she get special training for that stuff as a kid, or did she naturally pick it up on her own? I don't think it really matters that much.
And I wouldn't say she's the ultimate power in the universe yet. She's a young, tough, naive person who is just learning how to control her force abilities. Luke tells her she needs a teacher and he gets freaked out when she's immediately drawn to the dark side without hesitating. As a Jedi, I'd argue that she's still a novice, and that we'll see her get more training and mentorship in the final movie from Force ghost Luke (or Yoda).
When speaking with Rey, Luke mentions that Kylo left with a handful of other 'cadets'.
Are we to assume that those others were/are the Knights of Ren? (I have no idea what that means, I just hear you guys using the term)
I would assume that's a safe bet. But we don't have a definitive answer.
It was mentioned in The Force Awakens that's Kylo Ren was the Master of the Knights of Ren and they showed him with a group of similar looking black armored people in a flash back scene.
Any reason why force users don't just rip their enemies apart with their mind? Rey and Ren ripped a lightsaber in half with the force, surely it takes less effort to take an arm off. I mean they can lift heavy objects, choke people, and throw things at people, why not just rip their arms off. In the Prequels, they fought an asthmatic droid and I always wondered why they didn't just unplug his motivator or something.
Any reason why force users don't just rip their enemies apart with their mind? Rey and Ren ripped a lightsaber in half with the force, surely it takes less effort to take an arm off. I mean they can lift heavy objects, choke people, and throw things at people, why not just rip their arms off. In the Prequels, they fought an asthmatic droid and I always wondered why they didn't just unplug his motivator or something.
Pretty much not the Jedi Way.
But you did see Snoke hurling people around, electrifying them.
The Sith on the other hand. In the Legends EU Bane pretty much disintigrated people with Lightning. Used a death field to basically suck your life force out of your body and leave you a husk.
He created a thought bomb that disintegrated every force user around and trapped their spirits for eternity in an energy ball.
Oh and in one battle he pretty much destroyed an entire forest.
In terms of Grievous, for some reason the Jedi are pretty passive about actually using the force. Remember they're all about defense, so reaching out and pulling someone's arm off, probably not considered to be Jedi like.
I mean if I had the force and I was fighting Vader, I'd be randomly pushing buttons on that light bright on his chest.
Holy crap that button makes you soil yourself.
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I would assume that's a safe bet. But we don't have a definitive answer.
It was mentioned in The Force Awakens that's Kylo Ren was the Master of the Knights of Ren and they showed him with a group of similar looking black armored people in a flash back scene.
Because of how that whole Jedi Academy thing went down, that entire vision with the black armored knights and Kylo in his armor is pretty much in question.
But I would assume that the students he took are the knights and not the Royal guardsmen.
I would bet that we see them in the next movie.
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Just got back from it for the second time and enjoyed it more. I didn't laugh as much at the humor, but felt better about the story overall. It was like a mix of ESB and ROTJ and now the third one is left to wonder what would have happened if Vader hadn't turned and lived. What happens between Rey and Ben could be very interesting, I hope they do something fun with it. I didn't hate the Leia thing as much, but I could hear the groans around me for sure. If they had played it more like the Force took over vs her having this godlike moment, it would have worked much better IMO. Even just keeping her eyes closed.
Things I wish happened:
Kylo firing on the tie fighters that shot at the bridge.
Rose slamming herself into the battering ram and sacrificing like her sister.
Someone. Anyone. Acknowledging the return of Luke outside the main characters. Like this guy is supposed to be legend. Can someone be shocked and amazed to see him? Preferably, as mentioned above, with some profanity thrown in?
I think the story is more along the lines of what would have happened had Anakin not been crippled and would have eventually betrayed Palpatine and taken over?
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