Like, what, they couldn't send a Star Destroyer to the other side? They had no tie bombers to send out? Oh no, just wait for them to run out of fuel and slow down...because of all the wind resistance and friction in intergalactic space.
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Also, in ANH, the "they're tracking us"/"not this ship, sister." conversation suggests multiple types of tracking existed at that time.
I took that exchange to mean that Leia was (correctly) saying that a physical tracking device had been implanted on the ship, but Han assumed that she was referring to some sort of remote hyperspace tracking, which he figured the Falcon was able to evade. Am I wrong about that? What's the expanded universe explanation for Han's comment?
Also, in ANH, the "they're tracking us"/"not this ship, sister." conversation suggests multiple types of tracking existed at that time.
I took that exchange to mean that Leia was (correctly) saying that a physical tracking device had been implanted on the ship, but Han assumed that she was referring to some sort of remote hyperspace tracking, which he figured the Falcon was able to evade. Am I wrong about that? What's the expanded universe explanation for Han's comment?
I always took that comment to mean that the Empire was interested in seeing where the Falcon was going, as opposed to destroying it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzz
The whole "chase" reminded me of this:
Like, what, they couldn't send a Star Destroyer to the other side? They had no tie bombers to send out? Oh no, just wait for them to run out of fuel and slow down...because of all the wind resistance and friction in intergalactic space.
Yeah, I've heard a few people say this one, and it actually does make sense.
You're assuming they're traveling at a constant speed, but they specifically say the Resistance ships are "Faster and lighter" the lighter part is important because they aren't just coasting through space, they are accelerating, which a lighter ship is likely more capable of doing quickly.
They're running their engines not because they have to maintain their speed, but because they need to continue to accelerate to stay way from the star destroyers who are accelerating to try to catch them.
It also make sense why they would stay the same distance away, if the 1st Order is accelerating/running their engines as fast as they can, the Resistance ships best bet is to match that acceleration to stay at a safe distance. No sense burning more of your limited fuel trying to open up a gap that ultimately isn't going to gain you anything.
So yeah, on first glance the using fuel thing sounds wrong, but it makes sense if you give it a bit of thought.
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Like, what, they couldn't send a Star Destroyer to the other side? They had no tie bombers to send out? Oh no, just wait for them to run out of fuel and slow down...because of all the wind resistance and friction in intergalactic space.
They actually mentioned this at the start when they pulled back their fighters because they couldn't support them.
Chances are if you just sent out fighters or even bombers they get cut to pieces by the Cruisers anti-space turrets.
I was bugged a bit by the gravity on the bombs.
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Just how many times does the Galactic government have to change hands?
Must be a fickle populace.
Based on the corruption and ineptitude of the Republics over the course of all the movies, it's a wonder why galactic citizens even care who governs them at this point.
This galaxy seems like Italy in the 30's
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Most people have heard that Star Wars was a bit of a mess before it was edited to perfection. This is a really good video about it that the editors for TLJ should probably have watched.
I've played X-wing vs tie fighter. Those cruisers are a pain to take out, but it can be done!
Flying a basic tie fighter with no shields going up against a Mon Cal Cruiser was pretty much suicide in the original Tie Fighter game. It didn't help that I was flying for an Admiral that was a traitor and wanted me dead.
The most devestating fighter in that game wasn't the Tie Defender, it was the Imperial Gunboat with the Scram Drive.
You fire off a bunch of missiles then hit the Scram Drive and do a attack on the deflectors and then Scram Drive away and hope you weren't damaged too bad.
I loved that game, but while flying the regular Tie Fighter and the Interceptor was huge fun, if you weren't paying attention you didn't live long.
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Somewhat surprised how many people seem upset that they didn't shoehorn in more lineages and unnecessary connections (IMO). I really liked the directions they went with the story, and loved that they enforced the idea that the Force is everywhere and within everyone, not in specific people or bloodlines. Also thought the lines about killing the past and the reignition of the rebellion were great focal points for the franchise instead of being obsessed with lineages and politics.
Frankly I wouldn't have liked it if Snoake was someone key from the past or that Rey was Luke's kid. Its where the prequels all fell apart by forcing cameos and fanservice then falling back on politics being the driving storylines.
This was what I wanted in a new Star Wars movie.
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Okay, I've been thinking about this a lot and I need to say it out loud.
When Luke walked out of the door and Kylo ordered them to fire all they have, I really wish one of the First Order soldiers said something to the affect of, "Is that Luke Nerfherding Skywalker?"
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Saw it last night and I'm still undecided. I feel like Snoke is now just a throwaway character. After a few years of all the theories and such, it seems like a letdown.
This movie literally left a clean slate for JJ to do whatever he wants. Last I heard he said that Episode 9 would tie in all the movies into a satisfying end.
Went for a 2nd viewing (finally) on Wednesday. I enjoyed it more but I still feel like it was riddled with plot holes and just trashed and stomped on what JJ setup in TFA and previous movies.
However, I don't totaly think it's a bad thing. I'm interested to see how JJ wraps this up and connects all the dots. I hope he does.
Two things still bother me:
1. Space flying Leia
2. Lukes overall defeated demeanor and attitude. I think they went too comical with it.
Overall I'm good with it but not happy. At least I'm also not yelling at the internet and telling everyone that Rian Johnson destroyed my childhood.
See, that was about the only thing with the Bombers that didn't bother me. I figured that since the bombs were on rails, that the rails started the bombs moving 'down' and the fact that there was no gravity to pull them down just meant that after they left the rails, they just kept going 'down' relative to the Bomber due to the rail acceleration until something else acted on them to move them in a different direction.
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I saw it last night and I liked it. The milking scene was super weird. And flying back to the bridge after being blown into space was cheesy (was it mostly her flying pose that made it just completely fake?). I’m not a Star Wars enthusiast by any stretch. I actually thought Rey had died at the end of the last one?!
I thought the Snoke killing and the Kamikazi scenes were both awesome. And the little stable cleaning boy at the end definitely grabbed his broom using the force, which was a good cliff hanger imo.
So I went for a second time today, and I still like it, but this time the experience was different. I used to watch Star Wars films multiple times because the universe was so deep and full that you would inevitably miss something the first time around. This time as I watched the movie, nothing struck me as being missed the first time. In otherwords this was more of a cookie cutter Disney movie that tends to be a bit shallow and is designed for the casual viewer.
They even hinted at it broadly in everything that Kylo Ren said to Rey. That she was nothing, but he could make her something. That the Sith, the Jedi, the Rebellion, everything would have to die out so that a new order could take its place. And he's right, but mistaken at the same time.
The fact that Rey is nothing hints that Disney is looking at these movies as a reboot and re-imaging of the OT, and they are. TFA was a retelling of a new hope, TLJ is a retelling of the Empire Strikes Back, anyone that is upset or disappointing in that, and its justified is missing the key point that the third film might be a retelling of ROTJ with a vast departure at the ending.
If you look at how the Universe and the Force is being portrayed it points to a vast change to the philosophy that George Lucas started laying down in 1977.
The Force itself is benign, its a balance of light and darkness, nothing more, it doesn't dominate your path, its grey, the problem with the Force is the creatures that use it, and because of that war on a metaphysical level its plunged the whole galaxy of non force using normal people into Chaos and pain and angst.
This was pointed out on the Casino planet where it looked beautiful but when you looked closer it was misery and hunger and hopelessness, and the people there were drawn into the war on both levels.
Even Luke understood that, and that he was a failure because he carried on the cycle of Dark vs Light through his whole life, not understanding the balance.
If you look back at the trilogies it suddenly makes sense
The Original Trilogy was the height of the Jedi arrogance, they believed only in the light side of the force and their arrogance blinded them to all realities. That the system of government on the normal level was hopeless and corrupt, and the Sith didn't cause that, they exploited it. Palpatine rose to power legally because he understood that the Republic was hopelessly corrupt and he could use that.
Meanwhile the Jedi who talked about good deeds and being light, supported a corrupt system that was corrupt and oppressive and allowed things like Slavery to take place. They talked about the Will of the Force guiding them, but they only listened to one side of the Force, not the entire force which might have told them to let the republic die.
At the same time they listened to the prophesy of a chosen one who would bring balance to the force. But maybe they did mis-interpret it, because they believed that the force in balance met that the Light Side would triumph. Instead maybe the prophesy of the chosen one, meant the ultimate balance of darkness and light in one chosen vessel. That Anakin was to remove the warring sides of force users and be the one enlightened being who's job was to stop the force wars and keep the force in balance in the darkness and light.
The ultimate chose one prophesy would have ended with Anakin wiping out the Jedi, and killing the Sith and stop using the force and allowing it to stay in balance. Or have his son Luke remain as the one person in tune with the Force.
And as Luke said, for a while there was peace, but when he started expanding the number of force users with his academy, the balance was lost and the imperfect beings like Snoke and Ren and Luke started fighting from the single minded perspective of the light and the Dark.
Even Snoke got it, he was just blinded by his arrogance. As the Darkness rose an equal amount of lightness rose in Rey.
At the end of the day, we have imperfect corrupt creatures in the Jedi and the Sith, and people like Ren or Snoke trying to use the Force to gain power, and they do it from their own perspective.
This ultimately gives way to what could be the ending of the trilogy.
That the force isn't about destiny or moving rocks or seeing into the future, its about maintaining balance between life and death. Growth and Decay and Dark and Light.
To me that means that the Force War is going to end, with Ren thinking that he embodies the Dark and Rey the Light. Except for this, that will lead the way to the continued War between imperfect beings with different Force Philosophies fighting over and over again for all ages. Instead neither Rey and Ren are irredeemably Dark, or Light, and only one of them can survive in the end and then they have to make the decision not to use the force at all and let it return to its natural state.
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Finally got to see it. Not nearly as bad as some are suggesting, but maybe not as good as the critics think either. They certainly could have edited it down a bit. I was already aware/prepared for the Leia floating through space scene, so it didn’t bother me as much as it maybe should have. A few points though-
- I would have preferred that Luke was killed in the massive shootout scene, and his emergence from the pit was just his jedi spirit, as opposed to his entire presence on the planet being a weird jedi trick.
- I like that the new approach isnt like the prequels with an endless amount of fan service (l was predicting the code breaker would be Lando), but come on- give us a proper lightsaber scene between Luke and Kylo Ren! I have been waiting for a modern choreography lightsaber scene involving Luke since these sequels were announced.
See, that was about the only thing with the Bombers that didn't bother me. I figured that since the bombs were on rails, that the rails started the bombs moving 'down' and the fact that there was no gravity to pull them down just meant that after they left the rails, they just kept going 'down' relative to the Bomber due to the rail acceleration until something else acted on them to move them in a different direction.
Apparently they use magnets too.
The bigger issue was the utility of such clunky and slow ships that have to be in close proximity to their targets. And why design bombers that can't hit targets with defenses. What if Poe hadn't been superman, and had missed a single turret. Now they're totally useless. It also seemed like the bombers had to be so close that they could barely escape their own blast radius.
Somewhat surprised how many people seem upset that they didn't shoehorn in more lineages and unnecessary connections (IMO). I really liked the directions they went with the story, and loved that they enforced the idea that the Force is everywhere and within everyone, not in specific people or bloodlines. Also thought the lines about killing the past and the reignition of the rebellion were great focal points for the franchise instead of being obsessed with lineages and politics.
Frankly I wouldn't have liked it if Snoake was someone key from the past or that Rey was Luke's kid. Its where the prequels all fell apart by forcing cameos and fanservice then falling back on politics being the driving storylines.
This was what I wanted in a new Star Wars movie.
Firstly, why is being political a bad thing? Shouldn't the various factions have reasons for being, and motivations for their actions? Apparently that isn't required any more. What is the first order even after anymore, and what is the new rebellion rebelling for? Does anyone even know, or is it just an ongoing episode of Tom & Jerry in space? The prequels were hot dogcrap but at least in that sense the political story attempted to give the story some depth. The prequels falling apart was due to execution, not really due to the story.
Secondly, this notion that "the force is within everyone"...well ok, I think most Star Wars fans can agree that it is as far as being the mythical power of the universe. But can everyone suddenly become a Jedi master? With little to no training? What makes a character powerful with the force? Randomness? Will? A golden ticket?
Will future Star Wars be full of flying villagers who can shoot lightning around, because the force is within everyone? Does the reset of expectations mean anything goes?
I see a lot of people giving this movie credit for subverting expectations, but I actually think that makes the film incredibly cowardly. This movie is not some new IP, it is not some alternate universe. Its Star Wars, Episode 8. It would have been much more difficult to make a good film that respects the universe and respects what people loved about Star Wars. There are certain rules that are set up in a lore, characters and audience expectations. You can deviate from the norm to an extent, but when its as nonsensical as where this film goes, whats the point? Whats the point to any of it anymore? What makes it interesting, why even keep calling it Star Wars?
And for those that wanted such drastic change, doesn't that mean you didn't really like Star Wars in the first place?
For the record I have always been ok with the story getting away from the family lineage but you still have to set up new characters with believable arcs and motivations within the setting of the universe.
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"I was like Christ, lying on my back, with my arms outstretched, crucified"
-- Frank Musil - Early January 1994
Somewhat surprised how many people seem upset that they didn't shoehorn in more lineages and unnecessary connections (IMO). I really liked the directions they went with the story, and loved that they enforced the idea that the Force is everywhere and within everyone, not in specific people or bloodlines. Also thought the lines about killing the past and the reignition of the rebellion were great focal points for the franchise instead of being obsessed with lineages and politics.
Frankly I wouldn't have liked it if Snoake was someone key from the past or that Rey was Luke's kid. Its where the prequels all fell apart by forcing cameos and fanservice then falling back on politics being the driving storylines.
This was what I wanted in a new Star Wars movie.
Watched it last night. Couldn’t agree more, well said. I like that they changed the structure of their story so that it wasn’t so repetitive which was the problem with Force Awakens- it was a reboot kind of but didn’t need to be. It was way too similar to the originals in a really blunt way, this was similar in a more subtle way, and they carved some new paths and for that they deserve credit. I mean honestly a bigger Death Star in Force awakens??? With the same structural defects?! Dumb.
I thought it was great! Maybe slightly long for my liking but considering how much they were trying to get done it’s understandable. Only thing I would have changed is don’t kill Luke at the end, keep him for 9, just because it was a little weird how nothing killed him and he just kinda turned into dust.
I think the other piece massively under appreciated by fans is how lucky Star Wars fans are for Disney to take this investment on. What other entertainment company studio has the budget, expertise / experience, story telling excellence, and overall ability to take the Star Wars franchise and really give it the kind of investment it needed to become even bigger than it already was? Disney has done a very good job of taking a legendary franchise like Star Wars and marketing, leveraging and launching this next saga plus lining up a whole new saga plus the one-off movies to explore that universe everybody loves. Would Lucas Arts have done that? He had lots of time to do it and didn’t. What about Universal or Legendary ot any other studio? Nobody else took the risks Disney did and they deserve credit for tackling something that nerds around the world will critique every single speck of dust on the screen. Imagine where this story and franchise is sans-Disney!
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