Should the Flames fire Gulutzan?

[DeluxeMoustache]

Interesting stat they threw out during the Sharks game. Updated to include the Anaheim game, the Flames have ended the first period with the lead in 7 out of 38 games.

This is in fact tied for last in the league, with Buffalo, Philly and Florida. (Of these, all teams have won 5 times except Buffalo who has won just 1)

That to me is unacceptable, but does match up with the familiar post game lament that they weren’t ready to start.

[tkflames]

Putting in Huska at this stage makes no sense. The heat have had a strong start to the season but in each of the last two years have had a bad run followed by a late season push to try and scrape into the playoffs. Moreso than players, coaches should "marinate" in the AHL. This core and window does not need "another learn on the job" and "grow with the team coach". If that is your philosophy, stick with GG who is 4 years ahead on this development curve. This team needs a leader that had been there and can push this team with a natural experiential authority. Not a dud that can talk theory and concept and also not a coach in training barely 3 years removed from the AHL.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Yeah they also promoted an existing assistant coach to replace Julien.

Dave Cameron...come on down???

Dave Cameron replaced the 11-11-5 Senators in 2014-15 and led them to 32-15-8 to finish the 2014-15 season. He may not be a coach you want running your team from training camp, but it would not be unprecedented for him to turn a team around midseason.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

He was pretty emphatic last night that special teams are the problem for this team. As head coach, what exactly is he doing about that?

Can anyone tell if he is concerned about the job his assistants are doing or the players are just not performing the tasks?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Dave Cameron replaced the 11-11-5 Senators in 2014-15 and led them to 32-15-8 to finish the 2014-15 season. He may not be a coach you want running your team from training camp, but it would not be unprecedented for him to turn a team around midseason.

So you want the guy that is responsible for the existing PP to get entire control?

Allrighty then.

[Toonage]

Silver lining - he likely wouldn't be in control of the PP anymore.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Silver lining - he likely wouldn't be in control of the PP anymore.

He would be in control of whatever he wanted to be in control of.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by transplant99

So you want the guy that is responsible for the existing PP to get entire control?

Allrighty then.

What's the worst that happens, exactly?

We miss the playoffs? We're not in a playoff spot right now. The odds have us missing the playoffs anyways. We're playing with house money.

The team gets even worse? They've won 6 of their last 17, we could have Dallas Eakins on the sideline and even he'd win that many. We're at rock bottom. Even if Gulutzan can pull us out of rock bottom, his identified flaws won't magically disappear.

We make the playoffs with Cameron as head coach and get outplayed? Cameron has more playoff wins on his resume as a head coach than Gulutzan.

I don't even like Cameron. But at this point change is needed as Gulutzan / Jerrard don't mesh with our defense core, which should be the strength of this team. If it's Cameron so be it. It wouldn't be my preference but it wouldn't be the end of the world. We know the many things Gulutzan won't do because that's the kind of coach he is - one who hates change. Cameron implemented change in Ottawa when he came on board. He's a dumb guy, but maybe that's what this team needs. A guy who's going to tell them to skate hard and sacrifice bodies.

Originally Posted by transplant99

He would be in control of whatever he wanted to be in control of.

So why exactly do you not think Gulutzan is control of the PP?

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by transplant99

He would be in control of whatever he wanted to be in control of.

Maybe. But he's more likely to pass that role on to an assistant (maybe Gelinas goes back to the bench)than handle it on his own.

Trying to give you all a silver lining. A sliver of hope. Don't #### on it.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

What's the worst that happens, exactly?

We miss the playoffs? We're not in a playoff spot right now. The odds have us missing the playoffs anyways. We're playing with house money.

The team gets even worse? They've won 6 of their last 17, we could have Dallas Eakins on the sideline and even he'd win that many. We're at rock bottom. Even if Gulutzan can pull us out of rock bottom, his identified flaws won't magically disappear.

We make the playoffs with Cameron as head coach and get outplayed? Cameron has more playoff wins on his resume as a head coach than Gulutzan.

I don't even like Cameron. But at this point change is needed as Gulutzan / Jerrard don't mesh with our defense core, which should be the strength of this team. If it's Cameron so be it. It wouldn't be my preference but it wouldn't be the end of the world. We know the many things Gulutzan won't do because that's the kind of coach he is - one who hates change. Cameron implemented change in Ottawa when he came on board. He's a dumb guy, but maybe that's what this team needs. A guy who's going to tell them to skate hard and sacrifice bodies.



So why exactly do you not think Gulutzan is control of the PP?

Because its well documented that he isnt?

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Because its well documented that he isnt?

So just to clarify:

- It's well documented that the head coach is not in charge of the PP and it has nothing to do with what he wants because he is completely satisfied with an absolutely brutal PP

- But if we make Cameron the head coach, he will elect to also be in charge of the PP because that's what he wants

mmkay

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Maybe. But he's more likely to pass that role on to an assistant (maybe Gelinas goes back to the bench)than handle it on his own.

Trying to give you all a silver lining. A sliver of hope. Don't #### on it.

All good...I just see NO silver lining to giving Dave Cameron any more control over this club than he has.

Many assume this season is going to continue as it has. And it may very well. Im looking to last year and hoping the club figures it out as they did...at least we have that history. Im not opposed to a coaching change, but it has to be for the right guy. I think firing GG just because and then hoping an existing asst. can change things around has much less chance of success than going with a guy that took the team to the PO in year 1 of his tenure. As Treliving calls it "going through the process".

Again though I think this is all moot. Treliving is a pretty loyal guy and i just dont see him gassing a coach who hasnt even been here 2 seasons.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

So just to clarify:

- It's well documented that the head coach is not in charge of the PP and it has nothing to do with what he wants because he is completely satisfied with an absolutely brutal PP

- But if we make Cameron the head coach, he will elect to also be in charge of the PP because that's what he wants

mmkay

He will if he wants to...why wouldnt he?

Who said GG is "completely satisfied" with the PP anyhow? Making stuff up is usually a sign of lost aruments.

I cant believe anyone is making an case to go to Dave Cameron mind you...so carry on with that. Mind you I dont believe i am smarter than existing NHL GM's.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Who said GG is "completely satisfied" with the PP anyhow?

To suggest he has permanently delegated the entirety of the PP to Cameron is to suggest that he is satisfied with Cameron handling the PP.

Reality is that Gulutzan has plenty of say in the PP, yet you frame it as Cameron off in his own little world.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

To suggest he has permanently delegated the entirety of the PP to Cameron is to suggest that he is satisfied with Cameron handling the PP.

What?

Dave Cameron IS in charge of the PP. He runs it everyday at practice, he has been interviewed on the radio about it, Loubardias talks about it all the time.

Just because GG has delegated that responsibility to him, does not equate being happy with how it is going however.

How do you come to such conclusions?

[Cecil Terwilliger]

This thread/poll need to be redone and worded more like:

"Should the Flames fire Gulutzan..."

a. out of a canon?
b. to Mars by hiding him in Elon Musk's Tesla for the next SpaceX launch?
c. into the sun?

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by transplant99

What?

Dave Cameron IS in charge of the PP. He runs it everyday at practice, he has been interviewed on the radio about it, Loubardias talks about it all the time.

And he holds heirarchy over Gulutzan when things aren't going well?

Just because GG has delegated that responsibility to him, does not equate being happy with how it is going however.

You are constantly framing the idea of Cameron as PP coach as an absolute, yet are unwilling to accept that power plays are not exclusively delegated. If you really think Gulutzan has minimal to no say on the power play right now, that speaks volumes in itself.

Cameron does not go over Gulutzan's head on the PP. To say that Cameron is "the guy that is responsible for the existing PP" is to absolve many people of blame for what the PP is. If there is an issue with the PP, whether tactical or personnel-wise, then it either falls just as equally (or more) on the head coach or you are suggesting the head coach is satisfied with letting someone else tank his team.

Originally Posted by transplant99

How do you come to such conclusions?

Likewise. How do you come to the conclusion about Cameron being "responsible" for the PP? He's an assistant coach. He may be bad at his job, but his job is not solely responsible for anything. And if it is, that itself is a failing on the part of the head coach to not nip it in the bud. Gulutzan's action OR inaction both make him responsible for the PP.

[Backlunds_socks]

Why. Has he not been fired yet?

[Jetfire]

I could actually see GG timidly letting Cameron run the power play all on his own and not stepping in to correct it. GG actually thought he was potentially going to get fired early last year (like 20 games in) when we came out of the gate like crap. He doesn't come across as a confident coach and I can only imagine that would rub off on the team's collective confidence, if he had major doubts only 20 games into his tenure.

I do have a pretty reliable source for the above info and am not making it up on a whim, can PM me about it if needed, just not going to put a name out publicly.

[taxbuster]

I would answer "yes" if there were a suitable (and likely) candidate to replace him. Just don't think that D Sutter, Tippett or Hartley are any of those. There may be a reason coaches haven't been fired this year yet --- there are not a lot of reasonable replacements.

The brand of hockey the Flames are playing is miserable, boring and predictable. And, predictably, non-aggressive except when they're down by several goals with mere moments left in the game. THEN they play well (mostly).

My vote is for Gaskal to take over the PP right now.....I've seen better analysis from him (assuming Gaskal is a "him") than from anyone on the Flames team so far. And likely would have better results.

I just don't see Tre doing anything. Not now, and maybe not until after Jan 25. And maybe not even then. All of which combines to just *&^%$ me off.

But, as I started this, I just also don't see a viable alternative right now.

OTOH, he *could* start by firing Cameron - but I'm not sure he can if Cameron was GG's hire.