Should the Flames fire Gulutzan?

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Table 5

I would prefer to do a long-term coaching hire in the summer as well, but I'm not sure you need to wait till then to fire.

They should put Huska and his team in the role for the rest of the year. It would be a fresh face that might allow you to salvage the season, but there probably wouldn't be a requirement to keep the guy beyond next year like there would be with a Tippett or Sutter.

Act now, and then evaluate in the summer when there are more options.

I could go along with this. He certainly seems to have every player that the Flames call up very prepared.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Table 5

I would prefer to do a long-term coaching hire in the summer as well, but I'm not sure you need to wait till then to fire.

They should put Huska and his team in the role for the rest of the year. It would be a fresh face that might allow you to salvage the season, but there probably wouldn't be a requirement to keep the guy beyond next year like there would be with a Tippett or Sutter.

Act now, and then evaluate in the summer when there are more options.

And who takes over development of your young guys?

That might be as important as the hire in Calgary.

Doubling down on removing current coaches could be disastrous unless you have a current Asst. coach in Stockton whom you trust to stay the course and has the players down their believing in him as well. Maybe Pittis is that guy...but they best be sure if they go down that road.

[Ashasx]

I'll give GG the benefit of the doubt and see what he can do with new assistant coaches.

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I'll give GG the benefit of the doubt and see what he can do with new assistant coaches.

This would be a good start. Something has to happen.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by MBates

Not taking issue with anything else in your post but only addressing this part...a mid season coach firing (perhaps even especially one that is not entirely deserved) can send a shockwave through a dressing room. Players who don't want to find themselves shipped out or sent to the minors or just benched or given less minutes going forward are suddenly reminded what happens when results are not delivered in the business of NHL hockey.

Unless you believe the players are inherently soft and actually incapable of getting ready to play games then it is a motivational / mental issue. Firing coaches is not a magical sure-fire technique to jolt players out of underperforming complacency...but it CAN work.

There is risk / reward in anything...including just staying the course. I have no idea what has the best chance of making a difference long term, but a mid-season coach firing is not an unreasonable option to have on the table.

You could be entirely correct, but my belief is that this has little to do with coaching and everything to do with the players themselves.

The reason i believe this is simple. I look at last year and how once the club figured out what GG wanted, they had tremendous success despite getting horrific play from the most important position. What changed? Did GG change the message for some unknown reason? Or did the players not want to commit to what made them successful last year?

With this organization it has been coach after coach after coach with very little responsibilities placed on the guys on the ice. And here we are once again. Players skating by ...because while a guy most have regarded throughout the hockey world as a very good coach gets tossed aside once again because of the prima donnas making all the money who know they cant all be turfed.

I guess I just think its time they tried something else instead of taking the easy way out.

/rant

All this being said i dont believe Treliving is the kind of guy to bail on his coach so quickly, regardless of results thus far. GG has been the head coach in Calgary for less than a year and a half. Most coaches get at least 2 seasons to show what they can do, and i expect the same in this situation.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I'll give GG the benefit of the doubt and see what he can do with new assistant coaches.

He was pretty emphatic last night that special teams are the problem for this team. As head coach, what exactly is he doing about that?

[bubbsy]

Im sure that there's a place to find face off % for 5on5, offensive VS defensive zone, and pp/pk faceoff %.

Maybe it's just me, but it sure feels like the flames lose every faceoff to start a PP and PK.

The coach said as much last night. He's right.

[Swifty16]

No good coaching candidates out there right now anyways so don’t make a rash decision there.
In the meantime, Stajan to the press box, Brouwer stripped of the A (press box too) and give it to Backlund. Waive Freddie, Frolik on IR and bring up Mangiapane and Hrivik. Put Mangiapane with Bennett and Janko. Jagr up with JG and Mony. Hrivik, Ferland and Lazar on 4th line. Revamp PP and PK personnel. Roll the dice and see what happens. Can’t get much worse then having Stajan and Brouwer out there.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by transplant99

And who takes over development of your young guys?

That might be as important as the hire in Calgary.

Doubling down on removing current coaches could be disastrous unless you have a current Asst. coach in Stockton whom you trust to stay the course and has the players down their believing in him as well. Maybe Pittis is that guy...but they best be sure if they go down that road.

It's not an ideal situation, but I would rather take that chance, than hire a long-term guy out of a pool of 3-4 that you may not think is the right guy, but have to stick with for at least 2 years.

Something has to give and I just don't think you can put one of the Flames assistants in the head coaching position as they are a big part of the problem. Apart from perhaps Gelinas who seems to have a smaller role with this staff.

I think the long-term solution is done in the summer, but there's too much invested in this current crop to write off the year, especially with no draft picks to soften the blow.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

He was pretty emphatic last night that special teams are the problem for this team. As head coach, what exactly is he doing about that?

This is truly a fair point.

That being said, the PK has been very good for about a month now even if last night's goal against was a dagger. Sometimes timing is everything in games for sure.

The PP though? 3 months in and it is worse than it started, and that's with 3 PP goals in the last 4 or 5 games.

Dave Cameron is responsible for the PP....make him accountable for it as well.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Swifty16

No good coaching candidates out there right now anyways so don’t make a rash decision there.
In the meantime, Stajan to the press box, Brouwer stripped of the A (press box too) and give it to Backlund. Waive Freddie, Frolik on IR and bring up Mangiapane and Hrivik. Put Mangiapane with Bennett and Janko. Jagr up with JG and Mony. Hrivik, Ferland and Lazar on 4th line. Revamp PP and PK personnel. Roll the dice and see what happens. Can’t get much worse then having Stajan and Brouwer out there.

Why the hell not??

Flames could be 5 points out of a playoff spot tonight by tonight or tomorrow. Would hope the coaches and GM would quit with the egos, and stop trying to be smarter than everybody else. The plan isn't working. 40 games gone by, pivot already geniuses!

[868904]

Originally Posted by transplant99

You could be entirely correct, but my belief is that this has little to do with coaching and everything to do with the players themselves.

The reason i believe this is simple. I look at last year and how once the club figured out what GG wanted, they had tremendous success despite getting horrific play from the most important position. What changed? Did GG change the message for some unknown reason? Or did the players not want to commit to what made them successful last year?

It was one hot streak. Some of you are putting too much stock into a 10 game stretch. The rest of the time, the team has not played well. The defensive structure and breakouts are horrendous and have not improved. There is something fundamentally wrong with the system and there is also a complete lack of accountability and leadership from the coach.

[Tailgator]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Even if he was fired today...tell me what difference you believe it would make when he will still have the same collection of soft and never ready to start a game players?

And if people think Darryl Sutter would take this job right now, I would beg to differ. This club is miles away from the type of team he excels with. His first time through the dome he had a big, plodding, tough to play against roster. He got another, even better, set of that type of roster in LA. It's not like the Kings were an offensive dynamo, but they sure could play D and clog up the neutral zone along with word class goaltending...that's what made them successful. Darryl is getting older and isn't going to want to wait 2 years while the team gets transformed into something he can work with. If he comes back it will be to a team ready to get over the top with his style.

IF, and its a big if IMO, their is a mid-season change in Calgary, your new coach will be Dave Tippett. Think about that. A guy who missed the playoffs 5 consecutive seasons before getting the heave ho. Obviously there were extenuating circumstances based on the club he was asked to work with, but all the same, if this is a results business, his are atrocious.

If the club goes in another directon, it will have to be in the off season when there is 15 or 20 candidates to choose from, not now where it is basically one of 4 guys.

This team clearly needs a wake up call - there are maybe 2 or 3 players whose give a **** level hasnt flatlined (Ones a goalie and the other is in only his second year). There seems to be no accountability, no consequences, so the same old same old keeps happening.

I’ve never said Sutter was the answer nor do I think he would come back to this team as long as KK and ME are still involved, but I’m guessing you meant that as more as a general statement than one at me.

Dave Tippett had issues with a budget team, GG has had issues with every NHL team he’s been involved with. I get loyalty, but a year and half of the same with better players isn’t progression, or encouraging. This is a results league, we have no picks in the first 2 rounds and are on the way to being a lottery team.

I don’t know the answers, (it’s above my pay grade ) but it’s become obvious what the answer isn’t. We have a goalie that’s stood on his head and masked what a horrible job this team and it’s coach has done all season. You can’t fire the players, and it’s pretty obvious they’re not listening to the coach, so why not try something while you’re circling the drain as opposed to watching Snow run up on stage with your lottery ticket?

[868904]

Originally Posted by transplant99

With this organization it has been coach after coach after coach with very little responsibilities placed on the guys on the ice. And here we are once again. Players skating by ...because while a guy most have regarded throughout the hockey world as a very good coach gets tossed aside once again because of the prima donnas making all the money who know they cant all be turfed.

You can't use previous eras and apply it to the current players. The Iginla era with Playfair, Keenan, and Sutter has nothing to do with the current core of players.

I don't see a lack of effort out there from the core, some players just aren't as good as hyped (see Dougie) and some are being totally mis-used (see Brodie). I see fundamental problems with the system.

While I believe firing Hartley was the right thing to do, I don't believe it was because the players didn't play for him. A new coach was needed, but Treliving got mesmerized by GG's BS. Tre needs to man up and fire GG and hire a real coach. There are two high end coaches available right now in Darryl Sutter and Dave Tippet; there is no excuse.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by 868904

It was one hot streak. Some of you are putting too much stock into a 10 game stretch. The rest of the time, the team has not played well. The defensive structure and breakouts are horrendous and have not improved. There is something fundamentally wrong with the system and there is also a complete lack of accountability and leadership from the coach.

No...a 10 game stretch does not get you into the playoffs in any season.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by 868904

You can't use previous eras and apply it to the current players. The Iginla era with Playfair, Keenan, and Sutter has nothing to do with the current core of players.

I don't see a lack of effort out there from the core, some players just aren't as good as hyped (see Dougie) and some are being totally mis-used (see Brodie). I see fundamental problems with the system.

While I believe firing Hartley was the right thing to do, I don't believe it was because the players didn't play for him. A new coach was needed, but Treliving got mesmerized by GG's BS. Tre needs to man up and fire GG and hire a real coach. There are two high end coaches available right now in Darryl Sutter and Dave Tippet; there is no excuse.

really?

I see a lack of caring from them all the time.

And again with the Sutter thing...just isnt a fit for the roster we have. If someone new is coming in at this point it will be Tippett almost assuredly...no thanks.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by transplant99

No...a 10 game stretch does not get you into the playoffs in any season.

A 10 and 6 game winning streak did in fact get them into the playoffs last season. Without either streak they miss the playoffs. No real streaks this season, just the same inconsistent play that’s been the hallmark of this coaching staff for 1.5 seasons now.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by transplant99

And who takes over development of your young guys?

That might be as important as the hire in Calgary.

Doubling down on removing current coaches could be disastrous unless you have a current Asst. coach in Stockton whom you trust to stay the course and has the players down their believing in him as well. Maybe Pittis is that guy...but they best be sure if they go down that road.

Doesn't he have assistants that could step up as intern coaches? It is not like he would be too far away from the club and still can be contacted for input or direction?

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Even if he was fired today...tell me what difference you believe it would make when he will still have the same collection of soft and never ready to start a game players?

2016-17 Bruins fired Julien on Feb 7th.

To that point they were averaging 2.54 G/GP and 2.64 GA/GP
After bringing in Butch Cassidy, who decided to open up the offense for defensemen, they were averaging 3.36 G/GP and 2.29 GA/GP. This season they are averaging 2.93 G/GP and 2.52 GA/GP. PDO is a thing, but there's also the idea that you make your own bounces. Most of us don't see Gulutzan capable of making a team make their own bounces(offensively), whereas Hartley was exactly that (offensively).

Even if you think Julien and Gulutzan are good coaches, it's entirely possible they are good coaches for a bygone era, and we need a coach for today.

Now tell me, if a coach could hypothetically increase our G/GP by 0.4, would our team not be better? We could go from ~24th in goal scoring to ~10th. That's not insignfiicant.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

2016-17 Bruins fired Julien on Feb 7th.

To that point they were averaging 2.54 G/GP and 2.64 GA/GP
After bringing in Butch Cassidy, who decided to open up the offense for defensemen, they were averaging 3.36 G/GP and 2.29 GA/GP. This season they are averaging 2.93 G/GP and 2.52 GA/GP. PDO is a thing, but there's also the idea that you make your own bounces. Most of us don't see Gulutzan capable of making a team make their own bounces(offensively), whereas Hartley was exactly that (offensively).

Even if you think Julien and Gulutzan are good coaches, it's entirely possible they are good coaches for a bygone era, and we need a coach for today.

Now tell me, if a coach could hypothetically increase our G/GP by 0.4, would our team not be better? We could go from ~24th in goal scoring to ~10th. That's not insignfiicant.

Yeah they also promoted an existing assistant coach to replace Julien.

Dave Cameron...come on down???