Treliving needs to start feeling the heat

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Kybb79

GG had a better team than Hartley. Hiller was horrible!

Hiller seldom played after the beginning of the season. Ramo and Ortio were decent to close out the season... and neither Elliott nor Johnson were terrific upgrades from Ramo's statistical level of play in 2015-16.

[Kybb79]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Hiller seldom played after the beginning of the season. Ramo and Ortio were decent to close out the season... and neither Elliott nor Johnson were terrific upgrades from Ramo's statistical level of play in 2015-16.

Yeah where are those three goalies now? They were not NHL goalies. Elliott and Johnson are. Gio was coming off a major injury and Hudler had a bad season.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Kybb79

Yeah where are those three goalies now? They were not NHL goalies. Elliott and Johnson are. Gio was coming off a major injury and Hudler had a bad season.

Funny, though. Karri Ramo posted a .909 save percentage in 2015-16 as this team's starter. Elliott and Johnson both posted .910 save percentages in 2016-17. That's not an upgrade at all, although Ramo didn't uniformly play in 2015-16.

I'm just saying, Gulutzan is a far better coach than Bob Hartley, whose archaic systems never worked with a number of players. Notice how guys like Mikael Backlund and Matthew Tkachuk and Dougie Hamilton have blossomed under Gulutzan, because he favours a puck possession system.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Hiller seldom played after the beginning of the season. Ramo and Ortio were decent to close out the season... and neither Elliott nor Johnson were terrific upgrades from Ramo's statistical level of play in 2015-16.

Jonas Hiller played 26 games that year and had a. 878 Sv percentage. That would be similar to Eddie Lack playing 26 games this year.

Earlier you said GG led the Flames to an 18 point improvement, which is true from the year before. It was also a 3 point decrease from 2 years earlier with 5 less playoff victories.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Hiller seldom played after the beginning of the season. Ramo and Ortio were decent to close out the season... and neither Elliott nor Johnson were terrific upgrades from Ramo's statistical level of play in 2015-16.

The Flames goaltending last season was way more reliable than the year before. Elliott and Johnson had their moments of suck but not to the level the three headed monster did. Like I mentioned before no coach has success with goaltending that horrible. Ramo was improving before he got hurt but it was alot like Lack where he wasn't necessarily letting in stinkers but couldn't make the big saves when needed.

[Kybb79]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Funny, though. Karri Ramo posted a .909 save percentage in 2015-16 as this team's starter. Elliott and Johnson both posted .910 save percentages in 2016-17. That's not an upgrade at all, although Ramo didn't uniformly play in 2015-16.

I'm just saying, Gulutzan is a far better coach than Bob Hartley, whose archaic systems never worked with a number of players. Notice how guys like Mikael Backlund and Matthew Tkachuk and Dougie Hamilton have blossomed under Gulutzan, because he favours a puck possession system.

Why are you defending GG you wanted him fired not long ago. GG is not good he never will be.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

Ignoring his salary I think Brouwer has been fine on the 4th line
Moreover I continue to be puzzled as to why fans focus so much on the depth players while largely giving the top line a pass
Lack of production from the top line is the number one reason for the recent record. Easier to blame Stajan but you win and lose on the backs of your top guys
Johnny had the game on his stick a couple times last night and didn’t deliver. But people seem to have a real problem pointing the finger in his direction

Because the 1st line can’t score every night. They’ve contributed to the majority of our wins this season where is the 4th line has contributed to more losses than wins. Like I’ve said in other threads, I’ve seen the 4th line of other teams win games singlehandedly and we received the same type of performances, maybe we’d be at 20 wins by now and nobody would be complaining.

At the end of the day, if the 4th line still plays 10–11 minutes a night, that equates to approximately 12–15 games in an 82 game season which is not insignificant. We need more from that 4th line or they need to be replaced because they have not performed up to the standard that this team has set all season long.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Funny, though. Karri Ramo posted a .909 save percentage in 2015-16 as this team's starter. Elliott and Johnson both posted .910 save percentages in 2016-17. That's not an upgrade at all, although Ramo didn't uniformly play in 2015-16.

I'm just saying, Gulutzan is a far better coach than Bob Hartley, whose archaic systems never worked with a number of players. Notice how guys like Mikael Backlund and Matthew Tkachuk and Dougie Hamilton have blossomed under Gulutzan, because he favours a puck possession system.

Backlund blossomed scoring 1 more goal under GG.

I suspect that Dougie will put up fewer points this season under GG than he did under Hartley.

Tkachuk was garbage under Hartley, I will give you that. It was almost like he wasn't even there most nights

[Backlunds_socks]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Backlund blossomed scoring 1 more goal under GG.

I suspect that Dougie will put up fewer points this season under GG than he did under Hartley.

Tkachuk was garbage under Hartley, I will give you that.

Heh Chuckry wasn’t even born whenhartley coached

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Funny, though. Karri Ramo posted a .909 save percentage in 2015-16 as this team's starter. Elliott and Johnson both posted .910 save percentages in 2016-17. That's not an upgrade at all, although Ramo didn't uniformly play in 2015-16.

I'm just saying, Gulutzan is a far better coach than Bob Hartley, whose archaic systems never worked with a number of players. Notice how guys like Mikael Backlund and Matthew Tkachuk and Dougie Hamilton have blossomed under Gulutzan, because he favours a puck possession system.

There are a bunch of players that blossomed under Hartley too.

The only metric a coach can be judged on are points/ROWs & playoff games won.

The coach has been provided a better 6 dmen to work with, a solid and proven top 6, a 3rd line with plenty of potential, and very good goaltending. Yet, the team has a point trajectory worse than last year and look to be outside the playoffs.

5 on 5 play is good, special teams suck, big game moments sees the team "crumple" as per the coach himself.

Let me know when the league hands out points and cups for Advanced stats, but until then, there us little to debate that Gulutzan has failed in his duties 40 games in this season. He likely would also receive a failing grade last season, saved by 2 lengthy hot/win streaks. Now, he should get credit for those streaks, and maybe even the hope/trust that he can get this team playing that well in the second half of the season to salvage this season.

If not, there is little reason to believe that he can take this team any further and should be canned for the same rationale as Hartley's removal.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Kybb79

Why are you defending GG you wanted him fired not long ago. GG is not good he never will be.

Dunno what you're talking about, I've pretty much always leaned towards keeping Gulutzan.

[Kybb79]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Dunno what you're talking about, I've pretty much always leaned towards keeping Gulutzan.

Maybe im wrong but i thought you jumped ship at one point.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Kybb79

Maybe im wrong but i thought you jumped ship at one point.

Oh, I've leaned closer towards firing him after certain games... no one's immune to knee jerk reactions. But overall, I support keeping his systems in place.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Kybb79

Maybe im wrong but i thought you jumped ship at one point.

He did, although he ended up voting no in the poll.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Kybb79

Are you serious? Last season they had bad goaltending so i hoped this season they would improve with good goaltending. Which they have had this season. Tell me what good has GG done? This team should be in the hunt in the pacific.

Ok then, who is his replacement?

You mean to say GG has done no good? Nothing? Or is he just a moron surrounded by the other morons who hired him?

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Kybb79

Yeah where are those three goalies now? They were not NHL goalies. Elliott and Johnson are. Gio was coming off a major injury and Hudler had a bad season.

And where is bob Hartley now?

[bubbsy]

A lack of replacement doesn't redeem Gulutzan though....

Also, 2 time cup winning coach Darryl Sutter also doesn't have a job. Not sure that can be used as a justification of of a bad coach either. I'm not defending Hartley mind you. I am all for a more systematic and defensive coach. That being said, I am not convinced the current coaching staff is getting the most of the players, let alone a team performing greater than the sum of its parts.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by TOfan

And where is bob Hartley now?

Better question to ask is "where will GG be next?"

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by redforever

Better question to ask is "where will GG be next?"

Well, if what we hear on the radio is correct, the players like him. He coached the team to an 18 point improvement. He's young and seems to understand the contemporary players mind set, unlike his predecessor.

I suspect he would end up back in the NHL in short order.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Well, if what we hear on the radio is correct, the players like him. He coached the team to an 18 point improvement. He's young and seems to understand the contemporary players mind set, unlike his predecessor.

I suspect he would end up back in the NHL in short order.

That's what a lot of people here said about Brent Sutter too.