Treliving needs to start feeling the heat

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

So how do you view the hamonic deal, in conjunction with the team results thus far?

Way too early to tell. It's ridiculous. We are 1/2 way through year 1. Trying to decifer all the scenarios that may play out is a fools errand.

treliving has described draft picks as currency. You use that in a number of ways. Early on he collected it, now he's spending it. Seems to make sense if your intent is to compete for/in the playoffs. At some point you push some of your chips in. Unfortunately part of the gig for a GM is risk. The Flames felt they needed to add a D to take the next step, and it came at a price. I'll ask an honest question, who else was available? What other top 4 D was on the market, in their prime and on the deal Hamonic is on? Was there any (I don't recall)? Trouba? Would Winnipeg even trade him in conference??

Harmonic/Brodie seem to be getting better. I also have faith this team is better than what we have seen so far. We haven't seen them put it all together yet, and I think we will. At the end of the day, I think this is a playoff team. The results so far are a little disappointing, but now we're past Christmas I think they will find some consistency and another gear. Guess I'm an optimist.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

So how do you view the hamonic deal, in conjunction with the team results thus far?

After 33 games I think its unfair to judge. Ultimately though I think the trade made sense in that we got a player that brought an element to our blue-line that was needed, solidified our top 4, and was under contract for 3 seasons at the prime of his career at a very affordable cap hit.

The rest of the deal kind of needs to play itself out. Will the first we gave up be a high pick? Will Hamonic be a big part of the teams success over the next 3 seasons? It really could go either way. Or it could work out well for both teams. It's all a calculated risk and I think the team liked the player and he fit with their window to try and win. The first ultimately is a gamble. It could be a core piece or it could be absolutely nothing.

[Backlunds_socks]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Way to early to tell. It's ridiculous. We are 1/2 way through year 1. Trying to decifer all the scenarios that may play out is a fools errand.

treliving has described draft picks as currency. You use that in a number of ways. Early on he collected it, now he's spending it. Seems to make sense if your intent is to compete for/in the playoffs. At some point you push some of your chips in. Unfortunately part of the gig for a GM is risk. The Flames felt they needed to add a D to take the next step, and it came at a price. I'll ask an honest question, who else was available? What other top 4 D was on the market, in their prime and on the deal Hamonic is on? Was there any (I don't recall)? Trouba? Would Winnipeg even trade him in conference??

Harmonic/Brodie seem to be getting better. I also have faith this team is better than what we have seen so far. We haven't seen them put it all together yet, and I think we will. At the end of the day, I think this is a playoff team. The results so far are a little disappointing, but now we're past Christmas I think they will find some consistency and another gear. Guess I'm an optimist.

But we’re jusging a gm and last year was sad also.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Backlunds_socks

But we’re jusging a gm and last year was sad also.

Last year was sad? What were your expectations? We had Dennis Wideman on the top 4 for christ's sakes.

[bubbsy]

Optimists indeed! Hope you are right.

I guess what I can agree with is it's too soon to tell. 40 games in, and up to this point, the results have been disappointing.

40 games can quickly become 50, which quickly become 60 and its close to deadline time. They need to figure this out soon and make a surge in the standings soon.

I'd be fine with this season being another year of progression and organic growth. However, throwing 3 high picks to get that top 4 d makes it clear that management were confident that this team has the pieces in place to contend. It sure doesn't look like a good gamble half the season thru.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by curves2000

A few recent examples of a few situations that have raised my eyebrow a little and the rationale for them given by management when fans said the same thing BEFORE it all unraveled.

1) Nik Grossman: Everybody could tell that he was slow, a defensive liability and that the game has past him by. I understand the need for the Smid LTIR move but when they played him 3 games, he got smoked out of the water due to foot speed and coughed up the puck they decide to terminate his contract. Rationale given was, and I paraphrase here "He's a big body with a physical presence but those older legs take a while to get going" It was evident to everybody the previous season with him and in the pre-season.

2) Eddie Lack: They wanted to shore up the backup position with a more cost-effective player who would give the teams the needed wins in order to preserve a 35 year old starter like Smith. They rode a hot start by Smith and then only used Lack in a few bits and pieces. When they sent him down the rationale by Tre was "The schedule allowed us to use Smitty more than we liked and for Eddie, who's a quality goaltender and a good NHL player, it's tough for a player like him to go in after a few weeks off"

So is this a coaches decision issue? A management issue for a trade? An AHL call-up issue allowing Rittich to start the year in Stockton? Is this an NHL schedule maker issue? If the issue was the wide open schedule and the fact that Eddie Lack was going in cold after a few weeks, than why did we not use him more to start? If he wasn't what we needed, why did we trade for him? Those points that we lost out on will be valuable in April 100%

3) Bouma/Brower: I understand that perhaps Bouma's time with the team may have been over due to rumored off ice issues and the fact that Hathaway could model his game for a lot less than Bouma So they buy out Bouma, don't bring up Hathaway to start and than plug Brower, who's earning double the salary onto the 4th line. The irony is that Bouma's play in Chicago hasn't been poor and we are still stuck with his minor cap hit next season for what appears to be little reason.

Sorry about long post but a few decisions leave a lot of people scratching their heads.

I'm not sure the first two points are worth a hill of beans at the end of the day. To continue to bring up Grossman a season and a half after the fact is dumb. I honestly don't mean to be rude, but it is obtuse. It's like beating yourself up for tipping that waiter $4.00 too much six months ago.

Went over Brouwer earlier and Hathaway had a bad camp. He hadn't earned his spot yet. But from what we are seeing right now, it looks like the message from the Flames was heard by Hathaway. If anything, the Flames deserve credit for not handing him his spot after a poor performance.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Frolik?

Frolik is a home run.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Frolik is a home run.

No argument here.

[Backlunds_socks]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Last year was sad? What were your expectations? We had Dennis Wideman on the top 4 for christ's sakes.

Not a sweep

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Backlunds_socks

Not a sweep

The Flames played well enough to win the first two games. Elliot soiled himself the last two games. More than any other position, your goaltender can single handily sink your ship.

Besides, the Ducks were the better team.

The Flames took notable steps forward last year. Describing last year as 'sad' seems a little misguided.

[Backlunds_socks]

Originally Posted by TOfan

The Flames played well enough to win the first two games. Elliot soiled himself the last two games. More than any other position, your goaltender can single handily sink your ship.

Besides, the Ducks were the better team.

The Flames took notable steps forward last year. Describing last year as 'sad' seems a little misguided.

Elliot, hmmmm, he second of tre tres cheap mistakes.

Elliot failing is in tre

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Backlunds_socks

Elliot, hmmmm, he second of tre tres cheap mistakes.

Elliot failing is in tre

Well said.

[TheScorpion]

I think I'm going to make a thread to assess each and every one of Treliving's signings. Maybe his trades, too. Then we'll see how much the positives really do outweigh the negatives.

[Kybb79]

GG was BT's biggest mistake along with failing to recognize the need for a top line winger. The Hamonic trade was dumb alot of New York fans say Hamonic is a broken down Dman. I would have rather used those picks for a top line forward.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Backlunds_socks

Elliot, hmmmm, he second of tre tres cheap mistakes.

Elliot failing is in tre

Again - these evaluations are just far too simplistic.
He paid an appropriate price for a guy that seemed to have strong underlying numbers and was poised to take over a #1 job. It was a calculated and managed risk to address the position while not paying a premium.
I evaluate these moves by more than just "did they work" and more on the rationale surrounding them and if that rationale was sound.
Most of the time Tre's moves are very rationale and sound. Doesn't mean all of them will work out - but they are thoughtful and sensible.

You can't simply keep beating the "yeah but they got swept last year" drum. It is far more nuanced than that.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Kybb79

GG was BT's biggest mistake along with failing to recognize the need for a top line winger. The Hamonic trade was dumb alot of New York fans say Hamonic is a broken down Dman. I would have rather used those picks for a top line forward.

I'm also baffled by the hate on for GG.

He's been here one season and took the team to the playoffs. Sure you may not agree with all the decisions, but isn't it a little petulant to complain about someone who has done a pretty good job?

[Kybb79]

Originally Posted by TOfan

I'm also baffled by the hate on for GG.

He's been here one season and took the team to the playoffs. Sure you may not agree with all the decisions, but isn't it a little petulant to complain about someone who has done a pretty good job?

Are you serious? Last season they had bad goaltending so i hoped this season they would improve with good goaltending. Which they have had this season. Tell me what good has GG done? This team should be in the hunt in the pacific.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Kybb79

Are you serious? Last season they had bad goaltending so i hoped this season they would improve with good goaltending. Which they have had this season. Tell me what good has GG done? This team should be in the hunt in the pacific.

Gulutzan led the Flames to a 18-point improvement in his first year as coach.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by TOfan

I'm also baffled by the hate on for GG.

He's been here one season and took the team to the playoffs. Sure you may not agree with all the decisions, but isn't it a little petulant to complain about someone who has done a pretty good job?

Saying he has done a pretty good job is a stretch. The team needed a ten game winning streak to get back into the hunt and then limped into the playoffs where they got swept. This season it's been nothing but an inconsistent struggle. If he manages to last the season and the Flames make the playoffs I think he still should be fired unless the team makes some noise that warrants giving him another year.

[Kybb79]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Gulutzan led the Flames to a 18-point improvement in his first year as coach.

GG had a better team than Hartley. Hiller was horrible!