Treliving needs to start feeling the heat

[Torchdemall]

Originally Posted by Backlunds_socks

He’s got many mistakes brouwers one of them. His biggest mistake is leavjbg the cupboard bare.

Ummm derp?! Lol! Thanks I needed a good laugh! That was a joke right? You just forgot the neon blazing green text right?! Lmao!

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

They are not full like when BT got here.

He inherited
Monahan
Gaudreau
Jankowski
Baertschi
Granlund
Kulak
Ferland
Byron
and was about to be gifted Sam Bennett.

Hard to see 9 NHLers being in the system right now for the Flames, although I suppose it is possible. I think any objective fan can at least acknowledge that Feaster was better at stockpiling the system.

If Bennett was gifted then what was Monahan?

Where would Granlund even play in our line up? He has 9 pts playing in Vancouver's top 6. He has no place in our top 6 and his production is basically the same as Brouwer while getting better ice time. Baertschi basically has the same production as Ferland so again having him on the team really isn't a gain. You think Byron would be the difference maker? You're whining like we gave up a bunch of guys who would be making a huge difference. There's only so many spots on a roster.

As for stockpiling the system Brad has done fine...

Bennett
Tkachuk
Valimaki
Dube
Parsons
Fox
Andersson
Kylington
Mangiapane

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

At what point do you expect improvement ? Do you think winning one playoff series is unreasonable for a cap spending team with no draft picks next season ?

No argument we have a 3 year window...soooo doesn’t that mean we should be better then 11th and a negative goal differential??

What are you talking about only a 3 year window? The core isn't even in their prime years.

25 to 31 is considered prime years for forwards with the average first line players peaking at the age of 27.

Defensmen tend to peak at the age of 28-29

Goalies seem to have no correlation to age as the seem to stay within 90% of their peak bit the census in studies seem to be the ages between 28 and 30.

Flames have still have some time to get the core sorted out .

[nemanja2306]

I think BT has done a great job so far. However, if he cannot admit his mistake in hiring the a**clown of a coach and remedy it, I have no problem with Burke showing him the door as well.

Sent from my WAS-LX1A using Tapatalk

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

What are you talking about only a 3 year window? The core isn't even in their prime years.

25 to 31 is considered prime years for forwards with the average first line players peaking at the age of 27.

Defensmen tend to peak at the age of 28-29

Goalies seem to have no correlation to age as the seem to stay within 90% of their peak bit the census in studies seem to be the ages between 28 and 30.

Flames have still have some time to get the core sorted out .

This just isn’t true , forwards do not peak between 25-31. They peak between 22-25 statistically.

In 3 years the current group of players are all exciting their prime . The new group would be Bennett, DK , and all the drafted/ young players in the minors.
The turnover in 3 years, if you look at the entire league, is usually massive.

It doesn’t mean JG, Mony, Hamilton,etc can’t be effective or that one may not have a better season thrown in there , but their best seasons will most likely occur in the next 3 years.

If we don’t believe we can compete in these 3 years, or are waiting for year 4 ( which would make this a 9 year rebuild ???) we should be trading Backlund , Gio, Brodie, Frolik, and not trading picks for guys to help now.

Do you honestly believe the Flames are thinking the team they assembled is going to be ready to compete in 4 years ? Or do you think they expected them to compete this season.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by tkflames

I really like Tre as a GM, but he will be judged on how he manages this GG failure. He has been able to pull the trigger won deals no one thought possible. However his gambles on brouwer and hamonic might be catastrophic.

Even if the islanders don't get a lottery pick, the equivalent of: Valimaki, Dube, Anderson and Kylington could easily be his downfall (I understand that I am cherrypicking recent flames draft picks...)

Well you can look at the Hamilton trade and due to Boston’s selecting Senshyn opposed to say Boeser or Barzal it still looks like a steal for Calgary. If Boeser or Barzal were playing for the Bruins putting up the same numbers they are now the Bruins would love the deal especially since McAvoy and Carlo have emerged.

If the Flames make the playoffs and Hamonic has an impact I am okay with the deal even if the Islanders hit the pick out of the park. My problem with the deal is if the islanders somehow get a top 3 pick from Calgary for Hamonic.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

This just isn’t true , forwards do not peak between 25-31. They peak between 22-25 statistically.

While players might put up more points in their early 20’s you can’t believe they peak as actual hockey players at this age?

Crosby has been a better overall player these past 2 years despite scoring more as a 18-22 year old.

Defensively, mentally, and physically players should be peaking around 25-30 which has the Flames window from 3-5 years imo

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

While players might put up more points in their early 20’s you can’t believe they peak as actual hockey players at this age?

Crosby has been a better overall player these past 2 years despite scoring more as a 18-22 year old.

Defensively, mentally, and physically players should be peaking around 25-30 which has the Flames window from 3-5 years imo

This.

Points are great and all, but of the top 20 point getters in the league last year, 12 of them were over the age of 25 IIRC.

Your peak years in this sport are 24-28 for most, for the exceptional ones they extend that to 32....particularly for defensemen.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Hackey

If Bennett was gifted then what was Monahan?

Where would Granlund even play in our line up? He has 9 pts playing in Vancouver's top 6. He has no place in our top 6 and his production is basically the same as Brouwer while getting better ice time. Baertschi basically has the same production as Ferland so again having him on the team really isn't a gain. You think Byron would be the difference maker? You're whining like we gave up a bunch of guys who would be making a huge difference. There's only so many spots on a roster.

As for stockpiling the system Brad has done fine...

Bennett
Tkachuk
Valimaki
Dube
Parsons
Fox
Andersson
Kylington
Mangiapane

Good points.

Think someone else mentioned it previously but it probably bears repeating; in 2013 the Flames had three 1st round picks, in 2014 they had a 1st & two 2nd's, in 2015 they used thier 1st to acquire a 22 year old defence man who was already established as a top 4 D, they kept a second of their own and picked up another. The Flames still made two 2nd round selections. In 2016 they had a 1st and two 2nds. In 2017 they made their 1st, and look to have made an excellent mid round selection. How many top 60 picks over a five year period does a team need to 'fill the cupboards'? Then you mix in college free agent signings etc;

All in all I would say the Flames, & Treliving, have done a pretty damn good job. The cupboard is far from bare and has probably looked better than it has in a couple decades.

Hockey ops recognizes this as they have leveraged their picks over the next two years into NHL assets into players that can step into their line up and make meaningful contributions. They feel, and rightly so, that now is the time for the team to take a step forward. Further, I suspect this is the direction given to Treliving from Edwards/King/Burke.

Has he made a few mistakes? Yep. But which NHL GM hasn't?

[Roof-Daddy]

The Flames are almost as far away from the 2004 run as the 2004 run was from the Cup win.

Will this team ever be relevant? Or just a continually mediocre wannabe/never was/could have been?

I'd maybe have more patience this season if the GM hadn't dealt away our 1st and 2nd round picks in the 2018 draft.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

The Flames are almost as far away from the 2004 run as the 2004 run was from the Cup win.

Will this team ever be relevant? Or just a continually mediocre wannabe/never was/could have been?

I'd maybe have more patience this season if the GM hadn't dealt away our 1st and 2nd round picks in the 2018 draft.

What on earth are you talking about?

[Bourque's Twin]

Treliving has only made 1 serious mistake, and that's his coaching staff.

The Brouwer signing is his 2nd worst mistake, and that's not crippling. He can buy him out after this season, and it's $1.5 million wasted for the next 3 seasons.

The Travis Hamonic trade isn't looking good right now, but I still think it's too early to tell. Give me a different coaching staff before I cast judgement. Hamonic has shown his capabilities in his career.

Otherwise, Treliving's drafting, signings, and trades have been excellent. He essentially traded Glencross, Baertschi, and a mid-1st round pick for a 22 year old Dougie Hamlton.

[Oling_Roachinen]

He's saying it's 14 year since the Cup run. It was 15 years after the Stanley Cup win that they went on the run.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by TOfan

What on earth are you talking about?

1989-2004 -15 years
2004-2018 a 14 years

A bunch of first round exits and playoff misses in between. Patience is wearing thin but even moreso considering the team does not have a pick in the top 62 to improve over the summer even if they have a bad season.

The jist I took was yes Treliving should be feeling the heat, he is tired of a mediocre team, and no picks means no patience.

Pretty sure that is where Roof Daddy is coming from?

[Vinny01]

It is going to be interesting what Treliving does as the team bye week is coming up in mid January. I feel that is when he will likely make decisions on the coach, Backlund and the rest of the team.

If he decides to keep Gulutzan (unfortunately I think this is likely) then does he make a trade? If he makes a deal is it one where he moves prospects for a rental? Prospects for a long term player? Or does he trade a core player?

Would he dare stand pat and let the season unfold?

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

1989-2004 -15 years
2004-2018 a 14 years

A bunch of first round exits and playoff misses in between. Patience is wearing thin but even moreso considering the team does not have a pick in the top 62 to improve over the summer even if they have a bad season.

The jist I took was yes Treliving should be feeling the heat, he is tired of a mediocre team, and no picks means no patience.

Pretty sure that is where Roof Daddy is coming from?

Ah, I see.

I would say it's pretty hard to navigate these sorts of things over 30 years. GM's are focussed on the here and now, or at least the 5-6 year plan. There are far too many moving parts, and it's only getting more complicated.

I'm sure if you were to have a candid conversation with Treliving, he probably hasn't spent more than 2 mins thinking about the Flames of the 90's or even 10 years ago. Sure, it's frustrating for the fans, but the reality is that the Flames hockey ops have a plan and they're likely sticking to it.

At the end of the day, having picks in the top 62 this year at this moment doesn't mean much. The cupboards are sufficiently stocked, and the Flames can recoup those picks between now and the end of June. It's kind of mind boggling fans seem to be so upset by this.

[tsquared1967]

Originally Posted by Hackey

If Bennett was gifted then what was Monahan?

Where would Granlund even play in our line up? He has 9 pts playing in Vancouver's top 6. He has no place in our top 6 and his production is basically the same as Brouwer while getting better ice time. Baertschi basically has the same production as Ferland so again having him on the team really isn't a gain. You think Byron would be the difference maker? You're whining like we gave up a bunch of guys who would be making a huge difference. There's only so many spots on a roster.

As for stockpiling the system Brad has done fine...

Bennett
Tkachuk
Valimaki
Dube
Parsons
Fox
Andersson
Kylington
Mangiapane

Monahan was not a gift for the Flames. If he went earlier then 6th, the Flames would have ended up with Lindholm or Jones. The Flames could have gone with Horvat or Ristolainen. 2013 draft was deep and that is why Feaster end up with 3 firsts.

Grandlund would be in the bottom 6 in the Flames lineup at a much lower cost then Brouwer.

The whole truculance thing with Burke and Treviling got them to pick Hunter Smith instead of Christian Dvorak and I am still shaking my head on that pick.

The GM and coach should start promoting players in the system instead of signing washed up players to fill a spot on this team every year and I am not talking about Jagr.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

1989-2004 -15 years
2004-2018 a 14 years

A bunch of first round exits and playoff misses in between. Patience is wearing thin but even moreso considering the team does not have a pick in the top 62 to improve over the summer even if they have a bad season.

The jist I took was yes Treliving should be feeling the heat, he is tired of a mediocre team, and no picks means no patience.

Pretty sure that is where Roof Daddy is coming from?

They aren't having a bad season. They're one point out of a playoff spot with 44 games to play.

Talk to me after we have a few more games of the five best offensive players on the team playing on the #1PP unit and tell me how you feel.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Ah, I see.

I would say it's pretty hard to navigate these sorts of things over 30 years. GM's are focussed on the here and now, or at least the 5-6 year plan. There are far too many moving parts, and it's only getting more complicated.

I'm sure if you were to have a candid conversation with Treliving, he probably hasn't spent more than 2 mins thinking about the Flames of the 90's or even 10 years ago. Sure, it's frustrating for the fans, but the reality is that the Flames hockey ops have a plan and they're likely sticking to it.

At the end of the day, having picks in the top 62 this year at this moment doesn't mean much. The cupboards are sufficiently stocked, and the Flames can recoup those picks between now and the end of June. It's kind of mind boggling fans seem to be so upset by this.

You will be upset by it if Snow walks up to the podium in late June and snags Brady Tkachuk or someone of that ilk with the Flames lottery pick, should they miss the post season.

I get that Treliving has nothing to do with the past 30 years of mediocrity for this pathetic organization, but as a fan I'm sick of it. I had a TON of faith in Tre but if he dealt away our picks this year and we miss the playoffs, it will mean he badly misjudged this roster and/or coaching staff and the majority of that belief I had in him will be gone.

There is still time to get going, but with every mediocre game they play the odds get slimmer and slimmer that they will finally turn the corner and actually be more than just fodder for the real teams in this league who are actually going somewhere. Which is basically what they've been for just about 30 years now.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Good points.

Think someone else mentioned it previously but it probably bears repeating; in 2013 the Flames had three 1st round picks, in 2014 they had a 1st & two 2nd's, in 2015 they used thier 1st to acquire a 22 year old defence man who was already established as a top 4 D, they kept a second of their own and picked up another. The Flames still made two 2nd round selections. In 2016 they had a 1st and two 2nds. In 2017 they made their 1st, and look to have made an excellent mid round selection. How many top 60 picks over a five year period does a team need to 'fill the cupboards'? Then you mix in college free agent signings etc;

All in all I would say the Flames, & Treliving, have done a pretty damn good job. The cupboard is far from bare and has probably looked better than it has in a couple decades.

Hockey ops recognizes this as they have leveraged their picks over the next two years into NHL assets into players that can step into their line up and make meaningful contributions. They feel, and rightly so, that now is the time for the team to take a step forward. Further, I suspect this is the direction given to Treliving from Edwards/King/Burke.

Has he made a few mistakes? Yep. But which NHL GM hasn't?

Good post and it is why Treliving felt comfortable making the Hamonic trade. Now if that first rounder becomes a top of the round selection, then you're singing the blues because every organization needs elite players and this one is no exception.

Where you can criticize the Hamonic trade is whether BT over paid. Those picks maybe should have gotten you more of an impact player.