Should the Flames fire Gulutzan?

[Red]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Gulutzen does line match. He matches lines all the time. Why do you think Backlund's line has earned the reputation of being a premier shut down line. They also take a crazy amount of defensive zone faceoffs compared to the 3rd line who conversely gets mostly offensive zone faceoffs to minimize risk. Is this not coaching?

The 4th line is a current mess and Brouwer should be playing as little as possible which is currently the case. But Treliving paid him big dollars to be a game changer and he's been an utter disappointment. I may not agree with him being on the PP, in fact I hate it, but I can see why he's up there sometimes as he's one of our only regular right handed shots on the team. I actually agree with you that our 4th is terrible and should be changed, but it's not that easy to go up to your boss and tell him that you need to sit an $18 million mistake down in Stockton.

I'm completely valid in criticizing your opinion on all the problems being pinned on one guy and I'd do it again because I disagreed with it vehemently. Might not be fair, but I didn't think your post was very fair either.

It's easier for the coach not to line match. GG figures that's where the league is going. I guess he is an early adopter.

http://calgarysun.com/sports/hockey/...h-assignments/

[Robbob]

A big part of that is the context is they were in the road as it was mentioned. Also what coaches say to media isn't always exact road maps and strategy. The 3m line is very much matched when he can. I think what he is saying is you can't worry about who your top line is matched up against, especially when you don't have last change and choice.

That somehow got spun into GG doesn't line change at all.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Robbob

A big part of that is the context is they were in the road as it was mentioned. Also what coaches say to media isn't always exact road maps and strategy. The 3m line is very much matched when he can. I think what he is saying is you can't worry about who your top line is matched up against, especially when you don't have last change and choice.

That somehow got spun into GG doesn't line change at all.

Well, that and the utilization of the 4th line late in periods, late in games, heck, with the 3rd d pairing out there to boot.

[MisterJoji]

A thought I had regarding a potential Gulutzan firing while watching the Oilers/Jets game last night. Here’s a case where sticking with a head coach has proven to be beneficial. Now I fully realize Paul Maurice has a lot longer of a resume with some moderate success including a finals appearance with Carolina in 2002, but his more recent history was not great up until this season. Before being fired by Carolina (the 2nd time) he was working on his 3rd straight season of non-playoff hockey after a miracle Conference Final run in 2009. Prior to that he had 2 seasons of non-playoff hockey in Toronto. So when hired by Winnipeg he had had 6 out of 7 season where his teams missed the playoffs. His first year in Winnipeg was yet another losing season followed by a season where they qualified for the playoffs by were swept in 4 straight. Follow that up with 2 more seasons of no playoff hockey in Winnipeg. It would’ve been pretty easy decision to fire him after last season, yet he was given a vote of confidence and extended. Now he’s coaching a team 2 points out of 1st in the Conference. Now I’m not saying Gulutzan shouldn’t be fired if we miss the playoffs the next couple of seasons but maybe he should be given a little more rope to see if he can get the team firing on all cylinders, given the teams solid advanced stats. Just a thought.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

I can't say I agree with a lot of this. Yes a big price was paid in order to accelerate the rebuild. But you make it sound like it was a bunch of age 30+ veterans that the team is counting on to push the team forward. That couldn't be further from the truth.

Hamilton was all of 21 when he was traded here.

That list of picks traded away does not include the Hamilton trade.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Bingo

If this team was getting worked night in and night out I'd be with you guys on stagnating and and the wrong message and make a change.

But they're just not.

You don't have an issue with a team not following their coach when they routinely outplay the opposition.

They are on their way in my mind. I honestly think they are a game or a week away from a stretch (something like 7-2-1) that will put this whole discussion to rest.

Flames' goal differential is -5, good for 20th in the league. And this in a season where they're getting very strong goaltending. I just don't see a team that is routinely outplaying the opposition.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

Agree with this except one minor little details, the word new. I don't want them to fire GG and put Cameron in charge. Cameron is actually the first guy I want gone.

That's fair, generally my feeling is you can maybe squeeze 2-3 more season out of this team before they stop getting better on an individual level. If they are not a contender in 2020 it will have been a wasted decade, and the one thing I am certain of is that GG will not get what he needs out of this team to make them a contender, I pined for coaching consistency when Sutter had 4 coaches in 5 seasons. But this team has had only 2 in the same time, I think Hartley had a long and successful stint here and GG is a failed experiment. Firing him would not seem link the revolving door we saw in the Iginla era yet.

[Samonadreau]

I personally was on the fence with the vote but voted yes its not all on the coach. I'm just surprised at everyone being ok with where the team is at and the coaching issues that do exist and can't be denied. Also those that are even Ok with missing the playoffs with a bunch of picks and non lottery protected 1st rounder being offloaded.

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by Stanley

The poll should also include, if you answer YES then who's your replacement?

1. D Sutter
2. Tippet
3. Jagr
4. Gaskal
5. I'm open to other suggestions.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

A thought I had regarding a potential Gulutzan firing while watching the Oilers/Jets game last night. Here’s a case where sticking with a head coach has proven to be beneficial. Now I fully realize Paul Maurice has a lot longer of a resume with some moderate success including a finals appearance with Carolina in 2002, but his more recent history was not great up until this season. Before being fired by Carolina (the 2nd time) he was working on his 3rd straight season of non-playoff hockey after a miracle Conference Final run in 2009. Prior to that he had 2 seasons of non-playoff hockey in Toronto. So when hired by Winnipeg he had had 6 out of 7 season where his teams missed the playoffs. His first year in Winnipeg was yet another losing season followed by a season where they qualified for the playoffs by were swept in 4 straight. Follow that up with 2 more seasons of no playoff hockey in Winnipeg. It would’ve been pretty easy decision to fire him after last season, yet he was given a vote of confidence and extended. Now he’s coaching a team 2 points out of 1st in the Conference. Now I’m not saying Gulutzan shouldn’t be fired if we miss the playoffs the next couple of seasons but maybe he should be given a little more rope to see if he can get the team firing on all cylinders, given the teams solid advanced stats. Just a thought.

Well GG is following the same tangent that Brent Sutter was on and that tangent never changed.

Fans were not happy with how B Sutter had the team playing in the first year, it got worse in the second year, and fans were as disgruntled as now and wanted him fired. He was allowed more time to play out his contract and the down slide and mediocrity continued.

Both coaches were basically the same...never changed their system and basically preached we will practice and play until we get it right...

Except that never happened. I am of the mind that you cut your losses.

[Stanley]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

1. D Sutter
2. Tippet
3. Jagr
4. Gaskal
5. I'm open to other suggestions.

I don't see it ever happening but I'd definitely be curious to see what D. Sutter would bring out of this group. Barf @ Tippet. Lol @ Jagr. Meh @ Gaskal.

Look at what Gallant is doing in Vegas? Damn, we shoulda snatched him up when we had the chance!

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

If this team was getting worked night in and night out I'd be with you guys on stagnating and and the wrong message and make a change.

But they're just not.

You don't have an issue with a team not following their coach when they routinely outplay the opposition.

They are on their way in my mind. I honestly think they are a game or a week away from a stretch (something like 7-2-1) that will put this whole discussion to rest.

I simply don't believe the Flames are routinely outplaying the opposition.

It seems like that's the line of thinking that leads to believing the results are all a combination of bad luck and bad officiating.

I think you also need to consider that the Flames are healthier than the majority of teams they play.

I'm not preaching abandon ship but the results are what they are.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Table 5

The day Treliving traded our 1st round pick for Hamonic is the day expectations were changed for this roster.

This is not a team that should be waiting for a nice "stretch". This is a team that should have been performing in the top 3rd of the league consistently from the beginning of the season.

This is a nice sentiment and all but there have been almost no teams in the league that have lived up to this standard this year except Tampa Bay, LA, Nashville and Las Vegas.

There's a big middle rump of teams that are more or less evenly matched and there's stumbling along. Very few teams are creating separation. So I don't hold that over the Flames' head necessarily. And if you thought the Flames were going to come in and establish themselves as a contender then you only have yourself to blame for the disappointment.

Meanwhile though, yes I agree, the Flames have to be all in this year. Missing the playoffs would be a huge disappointment from an organizational building perspective. Treliving is going to add before the deadline to get in. My guess is that Brodie is the guy going the other way.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by 1234iggykipper

When is it going to be acceptable to be tired of mediocrity?

Flames are currently pegged at a 25% chance of making the playoffs. Mediocre could be seen as an improvement.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I simply don't believe the Flames are routinely outplaying the opposition.

It seems like that's the line of thinking that leads to believing the results are all a combination of bad luck and bad officiating.

I think you also need to consider that the Flames are healthier than the majority of teams they play.

I'm not preaching abandon ship but the results are what they are.

The issue is they certainly don’t outplay the team on special teams . And that is a massive part of the game

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

The issue is they certainly don’t outplay the team on special teams . And that is a massive part of the game

Ding. Ding. Ding.

Very good 5 on 5 team. No good PP. In a league this tight, that's the difference between a good and mediocre team.

When the PP falls apart because Kris freaking Versteeg goes down then you know you have a problem with team talent. Coaching's also a big problem as well. Brodie should have been off the PP long ago. Brouwer should have never got a sniff. Tactics should have been changed up, but the bottom line is that the players out there are not good enough, IMO.

[GirlySports]

Flames midseason/deadline trades scare me. Too many bad ones in history.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Red

It's easier for the coach not to line match. GG figures that's where the league is going. I guess he is an early adopter.

http://calgarysun.com/sports/hockey/...h-assignments/

Except that story also speaks of the coach matching the 1st line against other top lines thus giving them tougher assignments. I remember him matching the Gaudreau line against the Ovechkin line twice this season and the result was us winning both games while shutting down Ovechkin. Even if he doesn’t match lines as much as others, does that make him a bad coach though? I know a lot of people have already made their minds on him, but the guy still coached this team to the playoffs last season on merit. So that at the very least should give everyone at least some idea that he might know what he’s doing.

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Except that story also speaks of the coach matching the 1st line against other top lines thus giving them tougher assignments. I remember him matching the Gaudreau line against the Ovechkin line twice this season and the result was us winning both games while shutting down Ovechkin. Even if he doesn’t match lines as much as others, does that make him a bad coach though? I know a lot of people have already made their minds on him, but the guy still coached this team to the playoffs last season on merit. So that at the very least should give everyone at least some idea that he might know what he’s doing.

And then promptly got outcoavhed for 4 straight for an early exit. Flames got caugt on a 3 on 0 in a "trick play" Anaheim had showed a week earlier....games in this league are won and lost on a single shift in a tight game. Every detail, every matchup matters.

[icecube]

If the Flames don't fix the pp and start stringing some wins together Gulutzan is gonna start hearing five year old kids telling him he sucks when he's walking his kid to school.