Muslim scholar removed from airline.

[jolinar of malkshor]

The religious leaders were heading home to Phoenix after a three-day North American Imams Federation conference in Bloomington, Minn.
The pilot ordered the men off the flight after their praying, conversation and behavior alarmed several passengers and flight attendants.
The imams denied that they did or said anything that could be considered threatening. They were released without charges after being questioned for five hours by federal law enforcement officials.

http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centr...n/16070261.htm

What do you guys think of this? If the group were not saying anything scary and just praying, I think people are seriously over reacting. People just need to chill out a bit.

[Incinerator]

Maybe the hijackers on 9/11 prayed before they hit the WTC? I can see why people got scared, whether it was overreaction or not is another debate.

[Knut]

While i agree it was an over-reaction.... i would too be a little perturbed if i see some traditionally dressed Muslims praying on a flight beside me... terrorism certainly would cross my mind...

[Crazy Flamer]

Originally Posted by Incinerator

Maybe the hijackers on 9/11 prayed before they hit the WTC? I can see why people got scared, whether it was overreaction or not is another debate.

I wold most certainly think it is. Do people not have freedom of religion anymore? And is it just me, or is this becoming a little too commoplace?

[Jayems]

Before passengers boarded, one became alarmed by an overheard discussion. "They seemed angry," he wrote in a police statement. "Mentioned `U.S.' and `killing Saddam.' Two men then swore slightly under their breath/mumbled. They spoke Arabic again. The gate called boarding for the flight. The men then chanted `Allah, Allah, Allah.'"

I would be worried, really worried... if thats what I heard before getting on a plane with them.

I don't blame them at all. Yeah, they picked the wrong people, and maybe its not fair, but you'd think they'd know that they might cause a reaction if they did that in front of everyone before getting on a plane.

They have a right to pray, absolutely, and maybe i don't know enough about the religion, (something to do with night time praying) i mean, did it have to be right there infront of everyone?

[jolinar of malkshor]

I am stuck somewhere in the middle. They should have the right to pray but they should also be aware of the times and according to some witnesses they said:

Before passengers boarded, one became alarmed by an overheard discussion. "They seemed angry," he wrote in a police statement. "Mentioned `U.S.' and `killing Saddam.' Two men then swore slightly under their breath/mumbled. They spoke Arabic again. The gate called boarding for the flight. The men then chanted `Allah, Allah, Allah.'"

I could see how that might scare some people.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Rightly or wrongly, if I was on a plane and a group of several younger Muslim men started to pray together I would be a little freaked out. Flying is already stressful enough for me, that would just add to it.

[Dion]

These Muslim men should have known their prayers might freak out passengers.

[Crazy Flamer]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Rightly or wrongly, if I was on a plane and a group of several younger Muslim men started to pray together I would be a little freaked out. Flying is already stressful enough for me, that would just add to it.

I agree that its hard to put in the back of your mind, even if thinking about it may be wrong.

But the way I see it, herein lies the problem. We have been made to fear that which which holds not threat to us. You've seen it on TV from the US every day for the past 5 years. That government has instilled needless fear in people that will last for generations to come.

[Flashpoint]

All bets are off in Airport security. You will not be treated on the basis of your civil rights.

You will be judged on your behavior and treated accordingly.

The fact is, if you tell a joke about a bomb, you might just wind up naked in a room with a finger up your ass. Sorry, security isn’t taking any chances. This is a well known fact. Not how it should be, just how it is. Free speech doesn’t apply in the departure lounge.

This isn’t an issue of religious freedom. It is one of race. If they were talking about Saddam Hussein and were white, they might have gotten away with it. But they aren’t white. Neither was anybody else who has blown up a plane in the last 30 odd years. Hence racial profiling.

Racial profiling is a fact of life when it comes to Airport security. Sorry, security isn’t taking any chances. I’m not saying it is correct, or the way it should be, just that is the way it is. Freedom from racial discrimination doesn’t apply in the departure lounge.

As far as religious freedom goes, if you are a Muslim traveling in the US, you should be aware of the political climate in the United States towards Muslims. Particularly in an airport where most people’s minds are going to turn at some point towards terrorisim. I am not saying it is right or correct. Just the way that it is. There are a lot of scared people out there. Religous tolerance doesn't extend to the departure lounge.

So you have 3 Muslims who decided to publicly pray in the departure lounge. If they didn’t realize this was going upset folks, they are the ones who are ignorant about the realities of airplane travel in the US and paid the price for their ignorance. If they knew it had the potential to upset others who might be intolerant of their actions, and did it anyway, then they were inconsiderate and probably got what they deserved. Security isn’t going to take chances when a planeload of frightened Americans start bitching about 3 Muslims making a big deal about praying before a flight.

They then apparently got into a heated discussion about Middle Eastern politics. Bad idea, especially if you just publicly prayed to your god, and are clearly Middle Eastern. Why not make some bomb jokes while you are at it for good measure?

Given those circumstances, I am not surprised airport security took a look at them. Add to that the fact most airport rental cops are not the fullest cans in the six pack, and a 5 hour unintentional layover isn't exactly unexpected.

What's the flip side? Suppose they were praying quietly, there was no discussion of politics, and they were polite and curteous to all the airline staff and security? If they were still booted from the flight then it is a serious transgression, and I am totally on their side.

The truth probably falls somewhere between the two.

[Jayems]

Originally Posted by Dion

These Muslim men should have known their prayers might freak out passengers.

They did know, and they don't care. If someone complains, they pull the racial intollerance and ethnicity card.

[Crazy Flamer]

Originally Posted by Jayems

They did know, and they don't care. If someone complains, they pull the racial intollerance and ethnicity card.

Being a bit of a devil's advocata here but why should they care? Just because some people are ignorant and intollerant they should change their actions?

[CrusaderPi]

Originally Posted by Crazy Flamer

Being a bit of a devil's advocata here but why should they care? Just because some people are ignorant and intollerant they should change their actions?

They don't have to care, they can do or say whatever they want, as long as they don't mind missing their flight.

[Crazy Flamer]

Originally Posted by CrusaderPi

They don't have to care, they can do or say whatever they want, as long as they don't mind missing their flight.

That's the thing though, why should they have to miss their flight?

[Jayems]

Originally Posted by Crazy Flamer

That's the thing though, why should they have to miss their flight?

I would just assume the extra security screening held them up past the departure time. I assume it was that reason, because if they had cleared them of any suspicion and there was time to get on the flight still, then that is totally wrong.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Jayems

I would just assume the extra security screening held them up past the departure time. I assume it was that reason, because if they had cleared them of any suspicion and there was time to get on the flight still, then that is totally wrong.

From what I got from the article. They were removed from the plane. Could they not pray in silence and avoid all this?

[Crazy Flamer]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

From what I got from the article. They were removed from the plane. Could they not pray in silence and avoid all this?

I don't know how Muslims pray, but I believe they get down on their knees and put their heads to the ground. If I'm wrong someone corect me.

But if I'm right, I don't think there's a quiet way of doing this.

[Jayems]

Originally Posted by Crazy Flamer

I don't know how Muslims pray, but I believe they get down on their knees and put their heads to the ground. If I'm wrong someone corect me.

But if I'm right, I don't think there's a quiet way of doing this.

But is it necessary to do in a crowded departure lounge full of people wary about terrorism?

I understand they pray lots and all, but seriously... in an airport, just before you get on a plane... and say kill saddam, something about the usa.. then get on the plane saying "allah allah allah?"

I'm aware Allah is god, but i've seen a tonne of videos from Iraq and they always say just before they blow something up "Allah al akbar" (or god is greatest)

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Crazy Flamer

I don't know how Muslims pray, but I believe they get down on their knees and put their heads to the ground. If I'm wrong someone corect me.

But if I'm right, I don't think there's a quiet way of doing this.

Well...sometimes you have to make an exception to the rules. I don't think they would be allowed to sit and pray in the middle of the airplane. If they wanted to pray in the plane then they should have done it quitely in their seats.

[Crazy Flamer]

Originally Posted by Jayems

But is it necessary to do in a crowded departure lounge full of people wary about terrorism?

I understand they pray lots and all, but seriously... in an airport, just before you get on a plane... and say kill saddam, something about the usa.. then get on the plane saying "allah allah allah?"

I'm aware Allah is god, but i've seen a tonne of videos from Iraq and they always say just before they blow something up "Allah al akbar" (or god is greatest)

I'm going to assume that when they got on the plane, they could not get off, hence the need to pray on the plane.

Why couldn't they have prayed before they got on the plane? Maybe it wasn't time yet. I believe Muslims have a strict daily prayer schedule. And really, would it have mattered had they done it in the airport terminal? They would have gotten the same reaction there.