Snoke is definitely dead. They showed is tongue blep face to the audience to reaffirm that he was not an important character. Next episode will be about Kylo and Rey, and love and resistance will prevail.
They don't want to make this too complicated for the audience.
In Episode 6, Luke believed so much that there was good in his father, even while being tortured by the Emperor, but still never had any intention of killing him. He wanted to save him, despite all the bad he had done. He felt he was redeemable.
Luke senses darkness in his sister's son, and for a moment thinks that the right thing to do is to kill him?
We already went through this character arc with Luke, and it's not in his character to do something like that, and it confirmed Ben Solo's transition to the dark side.
Just seems weird to me but I guess that's just what this movie is.
No, there are clear moments where he is full of rage and has a desire to kill Vader, regardless of whether or not he was redeemable. They may have been passing moments, but there were clearly visible on screen. Or did you forget the moment where he was standing over Vader after just viciously cutting off his hand with his saber aimed at his throat? It was only after the prodding from the Emperor that Luke realized it was the wrong path to take.
It's entirely believable that he would have at least a momentary thought of ending someone so likely to cause pain and torment across the universe. The ol' "would you kill Hitler if you had the chance?" ethical argument. Everyone should at least consider it, and Luke does for a brief period of time and then reconsiders.
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I think he could have had a flawed persona without unsheathing his lightsaber as a teenage boy lay sleeping.
was that actually the first time Luke tried to do something about Ben's turn? cause that means either:
1. Snoke got into Ben's head literally that day and was converting him so fast that there was no time to consider any option other than murder
2. Snoke had been working on Ben for a while and Luke started to notice, but instead of having a nice sit down or pep talk, procrastinated way too long until Ben became irredeemable
it would have helped if there were examples of how Ben was changing. was it only dark thoughts and feelings but no outward action? or did he start giving successively more violent wedgies to the other students as time went on? we may never know.
No, there are clear moments where he is full of rage and has a desire to kill Vader, regardless of whether or not he was redeemable. They may have been passing moments, but there were clearly visible on screen. Or did you forget the moment where he was standing over Vader after just viciously cutting off his hand with his saber aimed at his throat? It was only after the prodding from the Emperor that Luke realized it was the wrong path to take.
It's entirely believable that he would have at least a momentary thought of ending someone so likely to cause pain and torment across the universe. The ol' "would you kill Hitler if you had the chance?" ethical argument. Everyone should at least consider it, and Luke does for a brief period of time and then reconsiders.
Luke surrenders to Vader with the intention to turn him to the light side, just as Rey turns herself in to Kylo.
The only moment of anger he shows against his fight with Vader is when he mentions that he will try to turn Leia if Luke does not. Once he disarms him, he stops.
A fresh direction would have been Rey turning to the dark side by joining Kylo Ren, but that would never happen because Rey has never once been challenged or experienced failure during either of these two movies, which makes it hard to relate to her.She’s mastered everything she’s ever tried, there’s no struggle in her character.Its boring.
The sad truth is Star Wars has fallen prey to the main Hollywood money making scheme these days which is the method of soft rebooting beloved franchises. It’s essentially a remake, the exact same things happen, but they set it in the future and keep referencing the original movies to make it feel like a sequel.It happened to Jurassic Park, to Ghostbusters, and it’s happening now to Star Wars.I was really pumped for TFA, I didn’t read any spoilers or watch the trailers because I was excited about what would happen, but my heart dropped as soon as I read that opening crawl.They just reset everything to the beginning, there was nothing new there.I don’t blame Disney for doing it, they needed a minimal risk movie to put their movie on the right track (financially, not story-telling wise) and it obviously worked because the movie was well received and made a tonne of money.There were a few new additions that were creative but that’s the trick of the soft reboot, at the core the story is stale because it’s a clever way around not straight-up remaking a movie.I was in the minority of people who didn‘t like TFA because I’d seen what was essentially the same movie 20 years earlier on VHS tape, and I’ve seen a much better, less convoluted version of this last movie before as well.Say what you will about the prequels, and lots of people have, they were stories that we hadn’t seen before that didn’t rely on cheap nostalgia and virtual shot-by-shot retakes like these last two movies.It’s ironic that the main piece of originality in TFA, the vision Rey has in the cantina and the mystery box associated with it, was completely stepped in on this movie like it didn’t matter.More so than a bunch of nerds being upset that their Snoke theories were a waste of time, I think most people who turned on this movie because did so because it snuffed out the one bit of mystery and intrigue from the remade A New Hope.As a result the cracks are starting to show around this new trilogy, the Rotten Tomatoes score and the 42% decrease from the first Tuesday numbers between this movie and TFA are indicative of that.
Great post, couldn't agree more about the hollow character development. Rey has no relatable qualities at this point (neither do any of the other characters), she has just been anointed the most powerful Jedi we've ever seen and has undergone no trials or tribulations to do it. Truly a hero for the millennial generation.
The other points you make about the story are spot on as well. As someone who absolutely hated the prequels, at least they attempted to tell a fleshed out story with some level of character development and realized arcs. The execution was terrible, but as far as having a story to work with, they are actually in better shape than the latest film. I thought even though it was a rehash, The Force Awakens gave the series something to work with. The latest movie just ignored trashed all of that. At this point, can anyone actually tell me a compelling point to releasing a third upcoming movie? What motivation do any of the characters even have to continue their quests?
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Thought about it some more and the reason why Smoke needs a backstory and the Emperor does not is pretty simple. The Emperor was described as part of a preexisting dichotomy between good and evil that had been going on for generations. He was merely part of a bigger chain. His backstory is interesting but not necessary. Snoke has been described as something outside of that chain. He apparently existed before the Emperor and is far more powerful, in terms of the force. He basically breaks all the preexisting rules we've already been given about the Jedi/dark side, including those from the original series and the prequel. Most notably he breaks the role of two. The Emperor didn't break any rules and just fit into the narrative we were given.
Honestly they could have given us a one minute flash back, and I'd have been satisfied. Snoke's death was clearly one of many attempts by the creators to be edgy and cheeky and break the typical Star Wars routine. It fell flat.
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Hmm. I loved the Snoke death. Maybe because I was like "I knew it!" But I do fully expect there to be insight into his background and his corruption of Ben in the next one.
There was a thread on reddit discussing that a lot of people's complaints with TLJ stem from TFA.
I'm okay with Rey's parents being nobodies. But it seems like they devoted so much time in TFA to her lineage, flashbacks, Maz Kanata. When Kylo is told that BB8 is on Jakku with a girl, he responds with "What girl?" like there's a girl they know about or have an idea about that could be a threat.
I still have a problem with the pacing and unnecessary characters, but I think this disappointment has really blinded me to any real positives in TLJ.
I am really jealous of those who enjoyed this movie. I wish I could feel like the first time I saw this teaser.
Again, people are making story conclusions before the story is over. We still don't know answers to most of these questions, even if we thought we got the answer in this one. Everything could change.
For example, something that stood out to me was when Snoke was talking to Kylo at the beginning he said "The seed of Skywalker still lives." Now, he could have meant that figuratively, as in the hope in Luke, or the seed of good still in Kylo. Or it could have been literally...
Anyways, I just wish people would stop freaking out about stuff that we don't know yet. The pacing of the Finn/Rose spinoff and Leia in space are enough to argue about because those are story flaws. Things like Rey's parents and Snoke's lack of background can still remain to be seen.
Great post, couldn't agree more about the hollow character development. Rey has no relatable qualities at this point (neither do any of the other characters), she has just been anointed the most powerful Jedi we've ever seen and has undergone no trials or tribulations to do it. Truly a hero for the millennial generation.
The other points you make about the story are spot on as well. As someone who absolutely hated the prequels, at least they attempted to tell a fleshed out story with some level of character development and realized arcs. The execution was terrible, but as far as having a story to work with, they are actually in better shape than the latest film. I thought even though it was a rehash, The Force Awakens gave the series something to work with. The latest movie just ignored trashed all of that. At this point, can anyone actually tell me a compelling point to releasing a third upcoming movie? What motivation do any of the characters even have to continue their quests?
Its this point exactly. The First Order is incompetent, Kylo Ren is a whiny brat and Rey is perfect. The resistance has their spark and is rebuilding. Luke has moved on.
Its this point exactly. The First Order is incompetent, Kylo Ren is a whiny brat and Rey is perfect. The resistance has their spark and is rebuilding. Luke has moved on.
Seems like we are done here.
This whole "spark" to ignite the resistance is just reminding me of some of these cheesy YA novels like Hunger Games or Divergent that feels a little odd in the Star Wars universe, but I suppose the positive could be that at least this time, I have no idea what to expect from Episode 9.
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Anyways, I just wish people would stop freaking out about stuff that we don't know yet. The pacing of the Finn/Rose spinoff and Leia in space are enough to argue about because those are story flaws. Things like Rey's parents and Snoke's lack of background can still remain to be seen.
Even if they aren't explored any further, it's the story they choose to tell and it's hard to be critical of that to any real degree without just saying "my fan fiction idea is super duper and way better than this rubbish".
I can get annoyed (as I have in this thread) with narrative choices they've made in the movie, but I think what really annoys me is that I find it to just be...not all that well written, or directed. There's logic leaps within the story telling that ask too much of us to forgive/ignore, and then there's the escalation of force powers/unleashed of the most powerful weapon in the galaxy (...a hyperdrive core) that to me add a weird wrinkle to the "world" in part 8 of a 9 part saga.
...and the Rose/Finn stuff was utter rubbish, and that entire sequence was on par with the absolute worst parts of the saga thus far. "Rebel Scum!"/"Need a lift"/BB8 is this movie's "Now THIS is pod racing!" moment.
Wow it’s crazy that 4chan trolls have hacked so many CP accounts to post negative opinions of the movie.
First of all, Happy New Year!
But finally, I enjoyed it overall, but it does have its warts. I'm not going to say it was the greatest ever even though its eventual Box Office return may deem it so.
It did some things that were awesome and some that were disappointing.
Id still rate it as an excellent film. Much better than average. But I guess its a victim of the success of its franchise and expectations tend to be high.
It was no Spiderman 3 though.
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Wow it’s crazy that 4chan trolls have hacked so many CP accounts to post negative opinions of the movie.
Lol. It’s kinda sad how petty you are about this movie.
Who hurt you? And why are you obsessed with getting validation from other people who didn’t like it? And why does it make you so angry that most people liked it?
I’ve read a #### ton of movie discussions on CP and I’ve never seen someone so dedicated to convincing themselves that their opinion is the right one.
Just let it go dude. So bizarre.
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