The Last Jedi Spoiler thread

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

Star Wars capital ship design is messed up to begin with. a star destroyer's been completely disabled with 2 shots from an ion cannon (which is conveniently never used in the series again). a super star destroyer 10+ km long is defeated when its highly exposed bridge deflector shield generators are taken out with a few shots, and a tiny A-wing accidentally flies through their window. and on Leia's cruiser, their shields are easily able to fend off 18 hours of nonstop long range bombardment, but its bridge gets blown to smithereens by a couple of tie fighters that...ignore shields?

I was thinking about this part, did the TIE's attack the bridge after the order was given to flee from the FO fleet and you hear Ackbar or someone call for full shields to the back? If so that could explain why the bridge was crazy vulnerable. Just like back in the day playing X-Wing or Tie Fighter and managing your shields, putting full rear (and leaving the front completely open) when going away from something with lots of firepower.

[octothorp]

Something else I liked was Poe's story and setting him up to be one of (if not the) leader in the next generation of the rebellion. But equating the decision he made at the beginning of the movie with the one he made at the end seems a bit off (beginning of the movie: chance to score a victory at significant cost when retreat and escape was a perfectly valid option; vs. end of the movie: chance to give the rebellion what seemed like a fighting chance when, as far as they knew at the time, retreat and escape was not an option.) It worked out for him thanks to the sparkly dogs and a jedi on the other side of a rock wall, but just based on what he knew, I thought he made the wrong call in both circumstances. They could have set up a much better situation of him making a tough but correct call that that involved setting aside his ego.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

While we're at it, did you guys know that all the Star Wars prequels have A- CinemaScores? I guess they must not be that bad. It's just a decades long internet/fan troll job.

You realize no one ever said cinema score has anything to do with a movie's quality right? But it is not a bad judge of how the public rates a movie. Better than random online polls.

Are you just doubling down at this point and you realized a while back and are too stubborn or embarrassed to give up? Or are you trying to troll this thread? Why am I responding to your troll job? All great questions.

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by Regorium

It's by far the worst scene in the movie. Cinematically, very very cool, but it completely rips apart the rules of the Star Wars universe.

Why didn't anyone think of doing that against the death star in ROTJ? Especially when the half completed death star was decimating Rebel cruisers - surely one of them would've just FTL rammed it and won the fight.

The A-wing that smashed into the bridge of the super star destroyer might as well have just light-speed battering ram and taken out a lot more than just the flagship.

Why didn't they do that in Yavin 4? Why even have this long convoluted scene with Luke Skywalker when you could've just FTL rammed it with 10 Xwings and called it a day?

Because it's basic lightspeed technology, you could say this for literally any fight that's ever happened in star wars including the prequels. It tears apart the suspension of belief in the world that they have created when rules change for no reason.

I've seen people complain about this "flaw" before:

The Rebel Alliance are supposed to be good. It's unethical to train and use kamikaze pilots, therefor they would never consider it. Not to mention they knew they could destroy it without having to kill themselves. It's a simple explanation really.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by octothorp

Something else I liked was Poe's story and setting him up to be one of (if not the) leader in the next generation of the rebellion. But equating the decision he made at the beginning of the movie with the one he made at the end seems a bit off (beginning of the movie: chance to score a victory at significant cost when retreat and escape was a perfectly valid option; vs. end of the movie: chance to give the rebellion what seemed like a fighting chance when, as far as they knew at the time, retreat and escape was not an option.) It worked out for him thanks to the sparkly dogs and a jedi on the other side of a rock wall, but just based on what he knew, I thought he made the wrong call in both circumstances. They could have set up a much better situation of him making a tough but correct call that that involved setting aside his ego.

I definitely liked his arc showing us that his foolhardy attitude won't work in all situations and he needs to learn to think about the long game and make tough decisions.

But wasn't the decision at the end the right one? Luke wasn't trying to get them to join the fight, he was stalling for them to escape.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

Yeah that seems to be the consensus. If you don't think about it too much, or go see it a second time expecting to be disappointed, it's not really that bad. I guess some of us just had higher expectations?

Is that surprising though? I feel like it’s possible to think about these movies too much. It’s not a WW2 timepiece that you want to be historically accurate.

It’s a movie about aliens, space, and a magic called the force. You need to suspend belief to allow the movie to be entertaining.

As the Inglewood jack said the battles in Star Wars have always been messy in regards to canon and how ships can get destroyed and what damage it can do. Hell for some reason At-At walkers are immune to blaster fire but ships aren’t made with the same steel.

All I meant was for me personally a pretty large ship being able to light speed itself into another larger ship to destroy it didn’t set off a ton of “logic does not compute” alarms. Especially since it was an unplanned, last ditch, suicide effort that was her last resort to save the rebels. I probably would have had more issues with it if they tried to explain it or if it was strategically planned in advance (Still would have looked super cool though.)

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

I was thinking about this part, did the TIE's attack the bridge after the order was given to flee from the FO fleet and you hear Ackbar or someone call for full shields to the back? If so that could explain why the bridge was crazy vulnerable. Just like back in the day playing X-Wing or Tie Fighter and managing your shields, putting full rear (and leaving the front completely open) when going away from something with lots of firepower.

if that's the case, then dammit Ackbar it's all your fault...it was a trap and you fell for it again.

so then you have to ask if Poe could have done the same thing against the dreadnought. he managed to blow away all their turbolasers so he must have been underneath any shields, or they just stupidly decided not to turn them on. it's all your fault Poe...Leia was right to slap you for wasting limited fighter/bomber resources when you could have just blasted the bridge yourself.

[OutOfTheCube]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

You realize no one ever said cinema score has anything to do with a movie's quality right? But it is not a bad judge of how the public rates a movie. Better than random online polls.

Are you just doubling down at this point and you realized a while back and are too stubborn or embarrassed to give up? Or are you trying to troll this thread? Why am I responding to your troll job? All great questions.

You are the one who brought up CinemaScore as a way to discredit pretty much every other source that is showing a divided opinion.

You have overwhelming evidence that opinion on it is divided, and even didn't really like it yourself, yet keep insisting that overall public opinion is positive, partly based on CinemaScore and... trolls?

[direwolf]

Man, some of you guys are overthinking this stuff a little too much, lol. Let's not forget that these movies are basically fairy tale adventures about space wizards, talking robots with human personalities, alien creatures, cool spaceships, and a magical religion, all framed by your basic good vs. evil/ hero's journey style plot. If you're looking for logic or realism in the Star Wars universe, then perhaps these movies aren't for you.

The Last Jedi isn't a perfect movie by any means, and there are certainly moments in the film that bugged me a little. But it's still a highly entertaining and enjoyable romp, and a worthy addition to the franchise in my opinion. I'm eagerly looking forward to the final chapter.

[zamler]

The more I think about this movie the more I don't like it. Probably won't ever outright hate but I sure don't want to see it ever again.

As for IMDB.com I think the site is the closest thing out there to reliable ratings. I most often agree with the ratings, ones I don't agree with would be films I am not interested in. Also if people are going to complain about ballot stuffing it works both ways, I'd say it balances out. Rottentomatoes.com has some serious issues the "pro" reviews far too often are vastly different than the audience score.

Originally Posted by direwolf

Man, some of you guys are overthinking this stuff a little too much, lol. Let's not forget that these movies are basically fairy tale adventures about space wizards, talking robots with human personalities, alien creatures, cool spaceships, and a magical religion, all framed by your basic good vs. evil/ hero's journey style plot. If you're looking for logic or realism in the Star Wars universe, then perhaps these movies aren't for you.

The setting a movie takes place in doesn't excuse a bad story, bad characters and bad writing.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I definitely liked his arc showing us that his foolhardy attitude won't work in all situations and he needs to learn to think about the long game and make tough decisions.

But wasn't the decision at the end the right one? Luke wasn't trying to get them to join the fight, he was stalling for them to escape.

You're right about the decision there (I forgot about that one), I was meaning his decision to call off the speeder attack (before Luke showed up, before they knew that nobody else was coming, when they still thought there was no other way out of the caves). If there was ever a situation to put your life and your friend's lives on the line to take down one enemy machine, it's that.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

I've seen people complain about this "flaw" before:

The Rebel Alliance are supposed to be good. It's unethical to train and use kamikaze pilots, therefor they would never consider it. Not to mention they knew they could destroy it without having to kill themselves. It's a simple explanation really.

You don't even need kamikaze pilots to do that; you just pre-program the flight computers (and okay, star wars universe flight computers are really crappy, but we know from episode IV that programming a course and then abandoning ship is totally possible, that's what Death Star inspectors thought had happened with the Falcon).

[direwolf]

Originally Posted by zamler

The setting a movie takes place in doesn't excuse a bad story, bad characters and bad writing.

Normally I would agree here, however I personally enjoyed the story, characters, and the writing. Despite a couple of scenes I didn't care for, I thought it was a pretty solid flick overall.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by zamler

The setting a movie takes place in doesn't excuse a bad story, bad characters and bad writing.

It's an aside but I don't think the the characters were bad at all. Plot & pacing had some faults but I actually thought characters were easily the strong point of the movie. Especially the chemistry between Kylo and Rey.

Kylo was a standout and much better than in TFA. Rey continued to be strong. Finn/Rose/Poe storylines had some pacing/plot issues but overall thought their characters/performances were strong.

I know that some people had issues with Luke - but IMO the performance was still strong. He played a broken Luke well and I think that made sense since he didn't send himself to isolation because he was happy and the "hero" from Episode 6 still.

Leia same thing - biggest issues with her were more plot related than her character. ]

Yoda in his short cameo was great. Especially since more in line with the laughing, Luke trolling Yoda from the OT and not the prequel Yoda.

Really the only character I had didn't really like was Benicio Del Toro - and for me that was more about the performance than the character actions/motives. Just didn't like the stuttering and voice that was used.

[Ashasx]

One thing that is still really bothering me...

When Smoke was force holding Rey in place for Kylo to kill her, he's telling her that he knows Kylo won't betray him because he can read his mind and he knows his feelings. And 2 seconds later, Kylo betrays him.

"Kylo Ren won't betray me."
"Oh no I've been betrayed!"

Like what

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by octothorp

You don't even need kamikaze pilots to do that; you just pre-program the flight computers (and okay, star wars universe flight computers are really crappy, but we know from episode IV that programming a course and then abandoning ship is totally possible, that's what Death Star inspectors thought had happened with the Falcon).

How about all the ships running out of gas and just letting themselves be killed....why didn’t they fly into the ships instead of just floating to their deaths?

Or light speed away in different directions. Or literally anything but run out of gas and die .

They had a plan and knew the distance to the planet, so they would have known these ships didn’t have enough gas .

Unless what’s her name commander didn’t tell anyone her plan, just like she didn’t tell Poe or the other pilots ....

Such a pointless 1 hr of the movie everything to do with these scenes other then allowing a super cool ship on ship light speed ram!

But that scene was cool visually at least !

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

One thing that is still really bothering me...

When Smoke was force holding Rey in place for Kylo to kill her, he's telling her that he knows Kylo won't betray him because he can read his mind and he knows his feelings. And 2 seconds later, Kylo betrays him.

"Kylo Ren won't betray me."
"Oh no I've been betrayed!"

Like what

I took it as he had become more powerful and could hide his thoughts ... but in reality it was another scene that made no sense in the world they constructed...

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

One thing that is still really bothering me...

When Smoke was force holding Rey in place for Kylo to kill her, he's telling her that he knows Kylo won't betray him because he can read his mind and he knows his feelings. And 2 seconds later, Kylo betrays him.

"Kylo Ren won't betray me."
"Oh no I've been betrayed!"

Like what

Because Smoke was saying how he could feel the desire of Ren to open his lightsabre and strike down "his enemy". Not Rey.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Because Smoke was saying how he could feel the desire of Ren to open his lightsabre and strike down "his enemy". Not Rey.

I think you could see the change in Kylo when Snoke revealed that he had been controlling his mind to encourage doubt in it (there was a Kylo reaction-shot as soon as Snoke said that). From that moment, Kylo understood that he needed to guard his mind against Snoke's; he let Snoke see what he wanted to see from that point on. He was letting Snoke see his anger, his aggression, but was intentionally hiding the target of that anger. (Which, admittedly, doesn't necessarily seem like a skill that this impetuous, unfocused young force-user would automatically have, and it also kinda points to Snoke being kinda a second-rate Sith, since Palpatine would never fall for that.)

[direwolf]

Star Wars super nerd Kevin Smith reviews the Last Jedi (language warning of course). It's pretty long, but worth watching if you're a Smith fan.

https://www.facebook.com/YesThatKevi...4895143831930/