Eminem: Encore

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally posted by Faid1@Nov 14 2004, 12:12 AM

I bet you don't find jokes about 9/11 or AIDS funny either.

Have you ever posted anything of merit?

[Faid1]

Originally posted by MrMastodonFarm+Nov 13 2004, 11:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (MrMastodonFarm @ Nov 13 2004, 11:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Faid1@Nov 14 2004, 12:12 AM

I bet you don't find jokes about 9/11 or AIDS funny either.

Have you ever posted anything of merit? [/b][/quote]
Okay, I read Ro's post, and I still think Eminem sucks.

So, mega props to me.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally posted by Faid1@Nov 14 2004, 12:52 AM
Okay, I read Ro's post, and I still think Eminem sucks.

So, mega props to me.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally posted by Faid1+Nov 14 2004, 06:52 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Faid1 @ Nov 14 2004, 06:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Have you ever posted anything of merit?

Okay, I read Ro's post, and I still think Eminem sucks.

So, mega props to me. [/b][/quote]
You thought AIDS and 9/11 were funny topics.... I still can't get my head around that.

[Cheese]

Originally posted by RougeUnderoos@Nov 13 2004, 10:26 PM
Eminem is an actor playing a character -- he says so himself. Like him or not (and I happen to hate him) what he does qualifies as "art". If Eminem glorifies rape then Arnold Schwarzenegger glorifies killing police officers, since a character he played once killed 17 of them in a West Highland Police Station in 1984. Ironically enough, the last line he uttered in that scene - "I'll be back" -- has been around for 20 years and has been used as a slogan in political campaigns. I don't think anything Eminem says will be part of the vernacular in 2028. He'll be long forgotten. He certainly won't be a conservative governor of the most poplous state in the union.

So Mr Rouge...art eh? another fine line that many are beginning to tire of...sorta like the Canadian Government paying for the artists to make Meat Jackets....
so based on this you think Arnies "Ill be Back" is as bad as this?

Whipped that sh*t out, and aint no doubt about it
It hit the ground and caused an earthquake and power outage
I shouted "Now bitch, lets see who gets the best!"
Stuffed that sh*t in crooked and ######ed that fat slut to death (Ahh!! Ahhh!)
Come here bitch!
Come here!
Take this mother######in dick!
Bitch, come here!


Somehow I just dont see the comparison Mr underwear!!!

[Cheese]

Originally posted by Faid1+Nov 14 2004, 01:12 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Faid1 @ Nov 14 2004, 01:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Mean Mr. Mustard@Nov 13 2004, 07:53 PM
I see nothing funny about someone talking about how they are going to rape someone, kill their wife, and harm their mother.

Sup prude?

I bet you don't find jokes about 9/11 or AIDS funny either. [/b][/quote]
Prude? You jest surely? Making fun of 9/11 or AIDs?
Seriously IF this was all about fun then we wouldnt have an entire group of people trying to emulate his "hateful" ways. Why do we need to have an "artist" teach our youth that rape or murder is fun? Oh right...its only in jest?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by GerryCheevers@Nov 14 2004, 12:11 PM
So Mr Rouge...art eh? another fine line that many are beginning to tire of...sorta like the Canadian Government paying for the artists to make Meat Jackets....
so based on this you think Arnies "Ill be Back" is as bad as this?

Whipped that sh*t out, and aint no doubt about it
It hit the ground and caused an earthquake and power outage
I shouted "Now bitch, lets see who gets the best!"
Stuffed that sh*t in crooked and ######ed that fat slut to death (Ahh!! Ahhh!)
Come here bitch!
Come here!
Take this mother######in dick!
Bitch, come here!


Somehow I just dont see the comparison Mr underwear!!!

I'm not going to get too deep into an "is it art or not" argument, but I'd say it qualifies as art as much as the most Hollywood blockbusters.

I didn't say it was "good" art.

Regarding "I'll be back" -- there is nothing wrong with that per se. It's what happens next. Arnold goes on to shoot and kill about 40 people. How come that is so much more acceptable? One guy playing a character graphically murders a bunch of cops and he's a mainstream star and eventually a wildly popular politician, the other guy playing a character talks about rape and he's a criminal and a no-talent.

Why the double standard?

[calf]

Originally posted by RougeUnderoos@Nov 14 2004, 12:40 PM
Why the double standard?

I think the double standard comes into effect this way:

In the movies, it's well known that it's fiction and doesn't represent the actor's true feelings since movies are written by others, and the actors are under the direction of others who are making it.

With music, what's being portrayed is usually considered to be a direct extension of the thoughts, feelings, emotions of the performer, whether or not the artist is playing a character or not, it's always going to be perceived as the artists true feelings.

Know what I mean?

[albertGQ]

So if someone thinks a racist or sexist joke is funny, does that make them racist and sexist as well?

People do enjoy 9/11 jokes. Leno and Letterman constantly use 9/11 jokes as part of their monologue

[calf]

Originally posted by albertGQ@Nov 14 2004, 12:50 PM
People do enjoy 9/11 jokes. Leno and Letterman constantly use 9/11 jokes as part of their monologue

Is that really the case?

They make fun of Osama, GW Bush, the Iraq war, but I don't think I've ever heard them make a joke about what happened that day.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

There is a difference, does anyone think that Arnold is actually a robot sent from the future in order to kill and then protect a kid. I really doubt that is the case. However do people actually take what Eminem has to say seriously, and emulate him in their actions and conversely their thoughts. I would have to say yes. He is one of the most powerful forces acting on people (youth in particular) and what he says is taken as truth because people don't destinguish that he is playing a character, the same way people separate Arnold, or whomever from their roles. That is where the difference lies.

[albertGQ]

Originally posted by calf+Nov 14 2004, 11:52 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (calf @ Nov 14 2004, 11:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-albertGQ@Nov 14 2004, 12:50 PM
People do enjoy 9/11 jokes. Leno and Letterman constantly use 9/11 jokes as part of their monologue

Is that really the case?

They make fun of Osama, GW Bush, the Iraq war, but I don't think I've ever heard them make a joke about what happened that day. [/b][/quote]
Well, they do make fun of 9/11 itself, but not the victoms of 9/11

[albertGQ]

Originally posted by Mean Mr. Mustard@Nov 14 2004, 11:52 AM
There is a difference, does anyone think that Arnold is actually a robot sent from the future in order to kill and then protect a kid. I really doubt that is the case. However do people actually take what Eminem has to say seriously, and emulate him in their actions and conversely their thoughts. I would have to say yes. He is one of the most powerful forces acting on people (youth in particular) and what he says is taken as truth because people don't destinguish that he is playing a character, the same way people separate Arnold, or whomever from their roles. That is where the difference lies.

Movies can influence people as well, even if the audience knows they are just actors. Take the movie/TV show Jack Ass as an example. We've had numerous copycat stunts. Even porn has been linked to crimes involving rape and sex assaults on children

[calf]

Originally posted by albertGQ@Nov 14 2004, 01:00 PM
Well, they do make fun of 9/11 itself, but not the victoms of 9/11

Meh, this will get nowhere.

I don't remember hearing any jokes about 9/11. I'll take your word for it

[Cheese]

Originally posted by albertGQ+Nov 14 2004, 02:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (albertGQ @ Nov 14 2004, 02:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Mean Mr. Mustard@Nov 14 2004, 11:52 AM
There is a difference, does anyone think that Arnold is actually a robot sent from the future in order to kill and then protect a kid. I really doubt that is the case. However do people actually take what Eminem has to say seriously, and emulate him in their actions and conversely their thoughts. I would have to say yes. He is one of the most powerful forces acting on people (youth in particular) and what he says is taken as truth because people don't destinguish that he is playing a character, the same way people separate Arnold, or whomever from their roles. That is where the difference lies.

Movies can influence people as well, even if the audience knows they are just actors. Take the movie/TV show Jack Ass as an example. We've had numerous copycat stunts. Even porn has been linked to crimes involving rape and sex assaults on children [/b][/quote]
well gee...Porn is restricted to who buys it...Eminem isnt...any 12 year old can walk into a music store and buy it.....Jack Ass is just what the title suggests.....I dont think we can compare Jack Ass or porn to Eminem who influences thoughts, fashion and the ideas of our youth. If he is an actor he is a BAD actor that has sold his schtick to too many young people....thats the problem!

[albertGQ]

Originally posted by GerryCheevers+Nov 14 2004, 12:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (GerryCheevers @ Nov 14 2004, 12:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Movies can influence people as well, even if the audience knows they are just actors. Take the movie/TV show Jack Ass as an example. We've had numerous copycat stunts. Even porn has been linked to crimes involving rape and sex assaults on children

well gee...Porn is restricted to who buys it...Eminem isnt...any 12 year old can walk into a music store and buy it.....Jack Ass is just what the title suggests.....I dont think we can compare Jack Ass or porn to Eminem who influences thoughts, fashion and the ideas of our youth. If he is an actor he is a BAD actor that has sold his schtick to too many young people....thats the problem! [/b][/quote]
My point is that movies can and do influence their audiences. It is not restricted to music artists

[Cheese]

Originally posted by albertGQ+Nov 14 2004, 02:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (albertGQ @ Nov 14 2004, 02:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

well gee...Porn is restricted to who buys it...Eminem isnt...any 12 year old can walk into a music store and buy it.....Jack Ass is just what the title suggests.....I dont think we can compare Jack Ass or porn to Eminem who influences thoughts, fashion and the ideas of our youth. If he is an actor he is a BAD actor that has sold his schtick to too many young people....thats the problem!

My point is that movies can and do influence their audiences. It is not restricted to music artists [/b][/quote]
thats fine...however I dont recall seeing an entire generation of people wearing the facial gear that Hannibal Lector wore....the only place you see it is Halloween. The "odd" person goes overboard and fantasizes and finally does bad deeds....Eminems influence is FAR wider....where does it stop? What are the limits or should we limit anything?
Im far from a prude, and I LOVE more music than most here, by a WIDE margin, but is his music really that relevant? My vote is NO...he brings absolutley nothing to the table as an artist or actor....pure White Trash that will soon be on the garbage heap!

[I_H8_Crawford]

My problem with the whole debate is where is the personal accountability? Columbine didn't happen b/c the kids listened to Manson; and if some 16 yr old punk goes out and rapes a girl tomorrow, I really don't think Eminem made him do it - the kid made a choice and acted on it. Blaming music, movies, porn, etc is just a way of people losing their personal accountablilty.

I'll go program a virus to steal minute amounts of money from daily transactions completed, and infect my workplace with it, then when caught, I'll blame it on Superman 3 and Office Space for giving me the idea "It wasn't me, it was the movie!" Yeah, that would go over REAL well in court.

And people talking about Eminem influencing 12 yr old kids... where are the parents of these kids?

I'm not saying that parents should be nazis and restrict their kids' access to anything questionable, but at least explain to kids that everyone in the entertaiment industry is insincere, and only doing what they do and saying what they say to make money. Not a hard concept even for a 12 yr old to understand. Instead though, you see parents letting MTV raise their kids, then when their kid does something wrong, it's not the kid's fault, it's not the parents' fault, nope, it's the media - Eminem, Manson, Warlock/Friday 13th movies, etc.

[RougeUnderoos]

If an entire generation of kids are looking up to and emulating a foulmouthed, arrogant rap star then, umm, we might want to ask ourselves why that is.

Blaming it on Eminem is like curing the drug problem by shooting a Colombian farmer.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally posted by RougeUnderoos@Nov 14 2004, 02:39 PM
shooting a Colombian farmer.

Which should only be done for gambling purposes/