Mike Smith - Aggressive puck handling still beneficial?

[Inglewood Jack]

This was brought up a few times in the PGT but I wanted to explore it a bit more in depth. We all love Smith's fiery competitiveness, and his widely known puck moving capabilities were supposed to help the team's transition. But after an admittedly very small Rittich sample, it seems to me that our defense looks more comfortable with a more traditional, conservative approach to goalie puck touches.

If the defenseman gets control of the puck and has to skate or pass to advance it themselves, the breakout seems to be more secure. But if they're anticipating Smith firing it to them, they seem to take it either slowed or stopped and turned around, which opens them up to getting pressured and coughing the puck up along the boards.

In my opinion the athletic/aggressive Smith style manifests itself in other ways, such as making saves look a bit more spectacular than they should be, or making close in scrambles somewhat more chaotic. All credit to him for helping prop up the Flames at many points, but it makes me wonder if there's an issue when you have two guys in net who are so different from each other.

[Bingo]

The Flames have played some really good hockey in the past couple of weeks in front of both goaltenders, so not an issue for me.

Smith needs to stop letting those muffins slide between his legs, his puck handling is an asset, not a liability.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Bingo

The Flames have played some really good hockey in the past couple of weeks in front of both goaltenders, so not an issue for me.

Smith needs to stop letting those muffins slide between his legs, his puck handling is an asset, not a liability.

Yep. He squats but he doesn't squeeze.

More on topic - I don't think its just the defenders that necessarily have to adjust to Smith's puck handling. The forwards need to be more aware of when he is out and where its going otherwise they find themselves out of range of the D which looks to have resulted in a lot of short passes or giveaways. Part of the issue is that Smith will often stutter step or rethink a move so its harder to set up but its an adjustment the forwards can make

[Cecil Terwilliger]

I'm not sure I see the link you are making between puck handling and "athletic/aggressive smith" and his saves looking more spectacular than they really are.

His puckhandling and the effects on our play, positioning, defencemen being comfortable/uncomfortable sure I get all those. But I really don't see any link between him playing the puck a lot and his style of goaltending in general. Unless you're specifically talking about when he screws up and needs to rush back to the net but it does not appear so. You seem to think there's some link between his puckhandling and his general positioning/goaltending style.

[GioforPM]

Smith just has to use more discretion about firing the longer passes. I don't think they are dangerous, they can just interrupt the flow a bit. Shorter passes = quicker puck movement. Longer passes can cause skaters to stop and the D has to bit a tad more cautious because they don't want to get caught if catastrophe strikes.

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I'm not sure I see the link you are making between puck handling and "athletic/aggressive smith" and his saves looking more spectacular than they really are.

the puck handling and save athleticism are two different aspects of a generally bold goaltending style, I meant for it to be mainly a discussion of the former. yes, that five hold needs some plugging, but I wanted to see if there was anything about his passing that was causing issues with the skaters.

[Enoch Root]

The puck handling brings substantially more benefit than harm. It is a good thing, and the idea that it is causing our defensemen problems is ridiculous.

It causes far more problems for the forecheckers than it does for the defensemen.

You want to know what causes defenemen grief? Goalies that are crappy at handling the puck.

[bubbsy]

After the brutal homestand where they got worked by the leafs and oilers, Warrener made an interesting point on the fan morning show.

He thought perhaps not having Smith handle the puck so much could be a good thing for the d. Having the d skating more to get the pucks, and having it on their sticks more might help their ability to break it out, etc.

Given how this team has looked with Rittich in, I'm not saying Smith's puck playing is a hindrance, but rather it is not that much of a game changer for how the d are able to handle the forecheck and break outs.

[Locke]

I've thought about this a while, and I think the real detriment to Smith's puck-handling abiity is that hes so good at it, but because of that its almost as though the team has to implement a different system when hes in net.

Its not natural anymore and you can start to see the Defence overthinking.

Then they get used to it and its all good, and then its the backup's turn and its like a whole new system again.

Hes the only one who can do it, so when hes not playing it requires all the other players to adapt.

Its not Smith's fault, its a big part of why he was brought in, but I dont think its being utilized well by the coaching staff.

[jordo23]

Agreed. He plays the puck too much, often putting it high on the boards or into their skates. What’s the point of having a great skating D if they’re getting the puck standing still?

[Zoller]

One thing I've noticed is that when Smith handles the puck it takes our defence and forwards a lot longer to get into position for a breakout which gives the opposing team time to set up. Last night our defence were skating more in our own zone which resulted in faster transitions up the ice.

I'm still of the belief that Smith provides a net benefit with his puck handling skills, but I'd like to see quicker passes. The one thing that can't be denied is he saves our d-men a lot of punishment from the dump and chase.

[Gaskal]

There's much more good than bad when it comes to his puckhandling. But it would lend additional options to the breakout for Smith to recognize when there is an opportunity for one of his defencemen to use the net as a shield and slide it behind his net, coming out with speed the other side.

Here's an article comparing Price's style with Smith's:
Carey Price vs. Mike Smith: Two styles of elite puckhandling goalies

Smith prefers the high-risk, long-range pass (or shot!), epitomizing the “bomber” style of puckhandling. Price, on the other hand, prefers quick passes that have far lower risk and shorter range, which we might call the “archer” style (a term a bowhunter like Price would no doubt appreciate).

A bomber’s primary skill is the strength and accuracy of his shot: Smith’s goal featured above is a perfect example of a powerful, rapid launch with superb technique. Clearly not every goalie, even at the NHL level, can shoot the puck like this.

An archer relies more on his dexterity in closer quarters. Watch Price deal with this tricky situation that most goaltenders would be better off avoiding.

[bc-chris]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The puck handling brings substantially more benefit than harm. It is a good thing, and the idea that it is causing our defensemen problems is ridiculous.

It causes far more problems for the forecheckers than it does for the defensemen.

You want to know what causes defenemen grief? Goalies that are crappy at handling the puck.

ha!! you've seen me play goal!!

i also think smith's puck handling is good thing. i know someone mentioned in another thread a while back that him playing the puck also leads to 'less hits' on the d-men. even if it only reduces the hits by 4 or 5 per game, that adds up over the length of a season.

one thing i've noticed a few times is that in games where smith is very active it's almost like the opposition goalie wants to 'get in on the action' and maybe plays the puck a little more than normal which can lead to scoring possibilities for the flames

[belsarius]

I thought this was a cause of concern for the first 20 games, the defense didn't seem to really know what to expect and the forwards were starting to cheat expecting that big breakout pass and it ended with a lot of scrambles in the defensive zone when it didn't work.

In the last 10 though I think they have found a balance with it. The forwards cheat less, or are more aware when it is appropriate to get a head start out of the zone and when they will be needed to help move the puck up the ice. The defense seems more aware, whether it is better communication with Smith or just now feeling his rhythm, they are anticipating better and not allowing themselves to be in a position with only one out. And I think Smith has done a lot better job of picking his spots and when to leave it to the defenders. He is leaving the puck and allowing them to start the rush a lot more instead of just trying to get it up himself all the time.

All of this has, in my opinion, cut down drastically the number of times a game the Flames are getting caught in their own zone. How they are going right now is just the good balance between Smith's puck handling and the skaters ability to transition and you can really tell by the lack of fire drills for the past 5-10 games.

[EVERLAST]

The biggest reason Smith was brought in was to reduce the hits on our defence. It was cited in an article where Treliving estimated exactly how.many fewer hits each d would take over the entirety of the season.

They have had time to work on this now and this isn't New.

There can't be an issue with Smith doing this .....he's been doing it a long time and is better at it than any goalie I have ever seen outside of Marty Brodeur and he had a few Stanley cups he was that good.

If Smith weren't a part of any conversation we'd be in dead last.

Yeah the goalies are different but I see the team as a whole playing better in front of Rittich than Smith for what that's worth.

I see them blocking shots , back checking harder and winning more puck battles when Rittich is playing .

Just glad we have 2 very good goalies and more in the pipeline waiting thier turn......this is a good thing.

[GranteedEV]

I guess what I would say is that Smith's puck handling edges towards redundant on a team with Brodie, Giordano, Kulak, Hamilton. If we had a team with worse escapability it might help, but IMO our D are so good at rolling behind the net and wheeling out of danger, that Smith giving them passes in the corners while they are stationary appears more deteimental than people are admitting.

Overall though I think puck handlig is a useful skill and it's no surprise Holtby, Rinne, Price, Bishop are top goalies come playoff time. I would be inclined to tweak the balance to get the defensemen more involved. Our blue line needs to be the strength of this team if we want to go anywhere, right now they are taking back seat to the forwards and goaltender which is ass-backwards.

[Bingo]

Wow just looked at the stats ...

he's lost 6 of his last 7 with a .891 save percentage

[GullFoss]

yes - Smith has been less than average the past handful of games. And teh first line is no longer playing lights out. But now the third line and 2nd pairing are playing well, so it masks this to some degree...Brodie and Hamonic and Bennett and Hathaway and Janko have all been playing really well.

I wonder if this team will ever be firing on all cylinders...

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Wow just looked at the stats ...

he's lost 6 of his last 7 with a .891 save percentage

Obviously not good but I would suspect every goalie in the world goes through stretches where their save percentage dips below 900. 891 is bad but not embarassing.

I do think with Rittich's play, the Flames should move to a normal back-up goalie rotation. They shouldn't need back to backs to play Rittich. (Although they do have a fair number of back to backs coming up)

[Brendone]

What I find odd is no one is able to accept a pass in the defensive zone unless their body is facing the passer, which has them always blind to the forecheck as well as the forwards flying the zone. They have to accept the pass then turn around and figure out their next move, or backhand the puck off the boards blindly. Maybe this isn’t unusual and I’m just noticing it this season. If they could accept a pass facing forward they could make better use of Smiths puck handling skills.

As it is, it seems our defensemen need the couple seconds behind the net to see their options to break out.