The Last Jedi Spoiler thread

[Roast Beef]

Originally Posted by Buff

I'm saddened about Luke. I figured he would die, and when it showed him meditating at the end I was happy that he lived, and then he became one with the Force and I became sad.

He has become far more powerful than you can possibly imagine....

[Ashasx]

I just got back from the movie and I've now read through this entire thread:

Beyond the obvious disappoint in Snoke's identity (what a throw away of a character) and Rey's lineage (could be a lie - I don't think so though), I really don't understand why the writers decided to abandon this "balance of light and dark" theme that was present for the first half of this movie. Luke coming to the realization that the Jedi weren't this greater and perfect Order, that they had made mistakes, and had been blind to their faults - none of that mattered at the end of this movie. Apparently he wasn't the last Jedi, and that's now Rey, who will carry on the legacy of mastering every skill she needs to carry on the plot of the story. Everything felt so sloppy.

And that's just kind of it with this movie - there's no conflict. At no point did I think a major hero would die. This movie isn't Empire Strikes Back. The First Order isn't the Empire - they are a bunch of idiots who seem to provide more humour than menace. I know that some people in this thread have stated that they appreciate Kylo appearing more villainous in this movie, but I completely disagree. He's still a whining child who throws an embarrassing tantrum when things don't go his way. General Hux is his jester. Team Rocket's blasting off again.

So maybe this series just isn't for me anymore. Unlike the end of Episode VII, I really have no interest in seeing the next episode. The things that I was more curious about were completely glossed over (not that they needed to be mind-boggling reveals or anything - I'm fine with Rey being nobody), but beyond that, I know that any potential conflict in this movie will result in the "good guys" getting the victory. Never mind a balance of dark and light. It will be good versus evil in Episode IX, with good scoring the easy victory.

It just seemed that the fans of this series care more about it than the writers. Some of us were looking for something to tie things together - not necessarily as a driving force behind the motivations for the characters, but something to think about and ponder beyond what is simply presented on-screen. That's really what the series feels like right now - you don't need to commit any time to it, events of the past don't matter, and all you need to know is that in the end, it's good versus evil. No depth in character development - just really simple motivations and resolutions.

If there's a couple things I liked, it was the fight following Snoke's death (who I assume were the Knights of Ren - convenient that they are now all dead), and the light-speed ship ram (conviently killing everyone besides the two heroes and Phasma, who was embarrassed again). Besides that, it seems that this movie was designed for some sort of faux-nerd movie following that has now become a regular part of pop culture.

I think I would have enjoyed this movie a lot more if I had read spoilers beforehand. That's not a good thing.

[Max Cow Disease]

Heaps of positivity in this thread- it’s making me question whether I’ve ever been right about anything, ever. I’m looking forward to watching it a second time to see how it strikes me.

Upon some reflection, I have zero issues with the handling of Rey’s lineage. No, not everyone has to be a Skywalker, and that may very well be a viable way to take the series in a fresh direction.

However...I’m stilled disappointed about Snoke. His death doesn’t seem to bring anything “fresh” to the series from my vantage point, and leaves a gaping power vacuum that I don’t see Kylo Ren really filling in IX. Andy Serkis is great at portraying a menacing character behind a mask, and I’m not sure if his death was merely an attempt to defy convention, or if there are grandiose plans in place to manufacture a villain worth fearing in the next installment. Either way it strikes me as a missed opportunity.

I also remain curious about the Knights of Ren. Seems like an intriguing concept that has been pushed by the wayside, despite being seemingly pivotal and formative for the trilogy’s antagonist.

[YYC in LAX]

Originally Posted by wontondestruction

I saw this posted somewhere else, but totally agree with it.

"This is not going to go the way you think...." - This movie in a nutshell....

LOL seriously? The movie is called, "The Last Jedi." I thought it was blatantly obvious the ambiguous title referred to both Luke and Rey.

Didn't like the movie but didn't leave mad. Weird.

Awful writing for Poe Dameron in this one. Oscar Isaac never stood a chance.

[GreenLantern]

I really liked that movie. The part with Yoda took me completely by surprise and I was literally in awe the moment he started talking. That was one of the best parts in any Star Wars movie to date. His line about failure being the best teacher got me right in the feels, then the mention of Obi-Wan brought it all together.

I thought Hamill was great, way better than I expected. His dialogue with Ren at the end was awesome. Fisher was much better this time around as well, she looked a lot more comfortable and like she was having tons of fun. RIP princess.

There was some extra stuff I don't know if we needed, the scene with Finn and Rose escaping was so over the top it reminded me of the CGI fest in Episodes 1-3. But overall I won't get to nit picky, it was a great movie.

Little disappointed with the lack of Snoke explanation, but I am guessing that will still come out in Episode IX. Rey's parentage.. ya.. I kind of liked it if they are actually just nobodies. But does that make sense with the force vision from Episode VII? I don't know I am just curious. There was a lot going on there.

Luke will be back as a force ghost, which I am ok with because at this point his dialogue was great and I wanted more. And we got to see him wield a light saber in a classic pose one last time.

I appreciated the Leia/Poe dynamic, it was really cool to see some mentoring in an area besides the force.

The fight between the Praetorian (?) Guards and Reylo was just awesome. One of the best fight scenes in Star Wars history. I liked that they were actually really tough.

The lack of build up of the Jurassic Park ladies character left her death very anti climatic, I just didn't care. The battle they referenced where she made her name, I didn't catch it, was it something we should know? The way she died though and the way it was edited was nothing short of epic though. Really cool ships in this episode.

And last, but definitely not least, my favourite Star Wars character of all time died, Admiral Ackbar. No joke, I loved that guy as a kid and was so pumped to see him in TFA. At least he got some lines before it ended. RIP old friend, you will be missed.

[DiracSpike]

I don't know, I might be out on these new movies. They're just...missing something and they use access to old characters like a crutch that taps into people's nostalgia and masks a lot of warts and issues.

They could have, and should have, cut that entire Rose Finn storyline. It was horrible, and served no purpose at all. Like at all, nothing came from that. It was a shame that Rey getting trained by Luke, which explores a timeless theme of Star Wars which is the mentor-mentee relationship, was cut short to see those two ride space horses and escape from space jail. It was terrible IMO, I was hoping those two would both get burnt up by the space cannon.
And then there were just weird random sequences, like checking in with that little alien while she was running around with a union dispute. Was anyone clamouring for any time with her? Who cares. Leia floating through space was terrible and corny. Most of the humour fell flat I think.
Luke Rey and kylo were the strongest aspects of this movie, it's a shame that it couldn't have been 90% about them. I liked that Rey's parents were nobodies in paupers graves, not everyone has to be related, greatness can come from anywhere and anyone and I was really hoping she wouldn't be Luke's daughter or something stupid like that. Snoke existed just to serve kylos arc which I'm perfectly happy with
Overall I just think these movies are weak and lacking, if they didn't have a lot of the characters from the the original movie I think a lot of people would put them in league with the prequels. For these last two movies it bugs me that they just reset the empire vs rebellion but with different names, even though they just have up half way through this one and started calling the resistance the rebellion. I think it would've been cooler if they had reestablished the republic and the bad guys were the upstart rebel force in these ones. I find myself not even caring about ep 9 now

[Roughneck]

The biggest missed opportunity would have been more time with Rey and Luke and Luke really trying to hammer home the 'grey' angle. That balance in Force users was the only true balance because for every good there has to be the evil to balance things out so the fight would never be over, etc.

Instead Luke does his spiel, sees Rey look to the Dark and gets concerned. Turns out there's nothing to be concerned about because she got a glance and just said 'nope, now time to bring Kylo over to the good.' No questions about the dark side, no real temptation, no conflict. No harking back to how she clearly had some of that dark side flowing through her in her fight with Kylo in TFA. Just non-corruptible good, apparently. More time needed to be devoted to this, it is the most important relationship in the movie (or at least it should be). This would have also given more time to the Rey/Kylo storyline as well, which was the other highlight of the movie, but IMO not as good as at could have been because it was rushed.



And after all that and people hailing how this brings us in a new direction we have never seen, we're back at a good vs. evil story with one person wanting to bring another back to the light...groundbreaking in the Star Wars universe. Not only that, but our main antagonist is somebody who was corrupted to the dark side by an unseen Dark Force user under his master's watchful eye...also groundbreaking.

[corporatejay]

Rey should have joined Ren to rule the galaxy forcing Luke to come "out of retirement". That would have been a dark turn.

Also, for those of you saying there is "something missing". It's because you're not a child anymore.

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Rey should have joined Ren to rule the galaxy forcing Luke to come "out of retirement". That would have been a dark turn.

Also, for those of you saying there is "something missing". It's because you're not a child anymore.

That's a fair point, I definitely think it plays into the equation a bit. It's probably one of the main reasons I have a soft spot for episode 1, I was 8 when it came out.

The og Star Wars still made an impression on adults tho, they had heart and creativity. These movies don't really do that for me, but if you're an 8 year old right now you probably thought that movie was awesome, and that's good.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Rey should have joined Ren to rule the galaxy forcing Luke to come "out of retirement". That would have been a dark turn.

Also, for those of you saying there is "something missing". It's because you're not a child anymore.

The first two star wars films are definitely not aimed at children. In one of the first scenes Obi Wan runs into a mad surgeon who'd mutilated his own face, then Han executes Greedo. Empire is definitely not a kids movie. Even TFA and Rogue One aren't kids movies.

People are just using the kids movie angle here, to justify the bad plot.

[Roughneck]

I'd have to ask again, what parts of A New Hope or Empire Strikes back would be pointed out as stuff that was put in just for the kids? The universe alone was enough to capture my imagination as a kid. The X-Wings were cool. I don't think porgs or gags were ever needed for me to love Star Wars when I watched it.

I'll say again, it wasn't until ROTJ that we started seeing stuff that was clearly put in for kids, and to explicitly market stuff to kids. The stuff in ANH and ESB was just stuff kids happened to like. But you don't become the phenomenon Star Wars became in 1977 by making "a kids movie."

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

I don't know, I might be out on these new movies. They're just...missing something and they use access to old characters like a crutch that taps into people's nostalgia and masks a lot of warts and issues.

They could have, and should have, cut that entire Rose Finn storyline. It was horrible, and served no purpose at all. Like at all, nothing came from that. It was a shame that Rey getting trained by Luke, which explores a timeless theme of Star Wars which is the mentor-mentee relationship, was cut short to see those two ride space horses and escape from space jail. It was terrible IMO, I was hoping those two would both get burnt up by the space cannon.
And then there were just weird random sequences, like checking in with that little alien while she was running around with a union dispute. Was anyone clamouring for any time with her? Who cares. Leia floating through space was terrible and corny. Most of the humour fell flat I think.
Luke Rey and kylo were the strongest aspects of this movie, it's a shame that it couldn't have been 90% about them. I liked that Rey's parents were nobodies in paupers graves, not everyone has to be related, greatness can come from anywhere and anyone and I was really hoping she wouldn't be Luke's daughter or something stupid like that. Snoke existed just to serve kylos arc which I'm perfectly happy with
Overall I just think these movies are weak and lacking, if they didn't have a lot of the characters from the the original movie I think a lot of people would put them in league with the prequels. For these last two movies it bugs me that they just reset the empire vs rebellion but with different names, even though they just have up half way through this one and started calling the resistance the rebellion. I think it would've been cooler if they had reestablished the republic and the bad guys were the upstart rebel force in these ones. I find myself not even caring about ep 9 now

I enjoy the movies but I could not agree more with your last paragraph. I've always thought the whole First Order vs Resistance thing was a lazy rehash.

[direwolf]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Rey should have joined Ren to rule the galaxy forcing Luke to come "out of retirement". That would have been a dark turn.

Also, for those of you saying there is "something missing". It's because you're not a child anymore.

That's a good point. I also get the impression that a lot of people went into this movie with preconceived ideas of where they thought the story should go in their head, and because the movie didn't quite deliver what they wanted, they ended up being disappointed.

After thinking about it for a couple of days, my opinion hasn't changed. I really enjoyed this film. Sure there were a couple of scenes that bugged me (Leia flying through space was just dumb), but overall I thought it was a wonderful addition to the series, and I really liked what they did with the Luke/Rey/Kylo storyline.

[iggy_oi]

I think the biggest reason why these films usually let down the fan base is because the fan base knows more about the story then the producers and directors, so the fans clue in on a lot of details that a person who knows very little about Star Wars wouldn’t pick up on. Making matters worse is that these details sometimes cause continuity errors which take away from the overall quality of the films. Like when r2d2 flew in the prequel trilogy but couldn’t in any subsequent films(though this could easily be explained). But there are other ones like why can Luke and leia levitate but palplatine couldn’t catch himself falling down the reactor core, and yoda couldn’t avoid falling in the senate.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

I think the biggest reason why these films usually let down the fan base is because the fan base knows more about the story then the producers and directors, so the fans clue in on a lot of details that a person who knows very little about Star Wars wouldn’t pick up on. Making matters worse is that these details sometimes cause continuity errors which take away from the overall quality of the films. Like when r2d2 flew in the prequel trilogy but couldn’t in any subsequent films(though this could easily be explained). But there are other ones like why can Luke and leia levitate but palplatine couldn’t catch himself falling down the reactor core, and yoda couldn’t avoid falling in the senate.

I think Yoda covered that in the movie. New gen Jedi learn things beyond what the master an teach them. Why can Kylo stop a blaster bolt? Vader couldn't, I think the point is ever Generation will find ways to use the force in new ways the old guard couldn't imagine. Which is totally valid IMO. The force isn't linear in learning. EDIT: Just to further provide some depth on this, Some Jedi could read minds and manipulate weak willed people with mind tricks, others couldn't. Other Jedi were known to levitate as well, I think Anikan and ObiWan both could fall and jump great heights (Darth Maul fight maybe?).
So it's not unusual to see force levitation. Different tricks for different force users.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I think Yoda covered that in the movie. New gen Jedi learn things beyond what the master an teach them. Why can Kylo stop a blaster bolt? Vader couldn't,

Well Vader could always stop one (ESB), he just didn't hold one in place.

That is until it got retconned in Rogue One where he could hatch a blaster bolt, hold it, and throw it back at somebody.

[GGG]

I quite enjoyed the Lore side of the movie and how it was told between Snoke, Luke, Rey and Ren. When Rey saw just her reflection I was think Captian's Palpatine clone theory could be in play. Also in the Throne room scenes Snoke seemed like he could be a resurrected palpatine. But overall I like the ways Rey's parents are
Nobody's or a future twist, I liked Kylo's refusal to kill Leia, I liked snokes death and I really liked how Luke let the physical world go once he was at piece.

He also in that moments saves Kylo Ren, he says something like Ren could never come back if he kills Luke so Luke didn't force Ren to kill him. Loved the Force isn't about moving rocks and the end being the force being used to move rocks.

My only complaint lore wise was Snoke was unexplained. That was lazy and made his death less satisfying.

So they got the Star Wars theory right but made a not great movie. I think you just cut out the whole Casino part and just have Finn/Rose get to the Star destroyer some other way. Then use that half hour of screen time to proved Snokes back story. The Leia fake death would have been fantastic if that was where she really died. Show her and Ackbar floating in space dying together.

I think with a few reahoots and a better cut of the movie it could have been amazing. Very similar to Revenge of the Sith. Good lore but some cringe worth movie points

So overall
1) ANH
2) Empire
--------------
3) FA
4) RotJ
5) last Jedi
5) ROtS
----------------
6) AotC
7) PM

[Wormius]

I enjoyed it, but too many flashes of ESB and ROTJ that it was almost a distraction.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Good not great.

Didn’t read every post but skimmed it and had read some general comments online before seeing it.

Slow chase plot and the casino was a bit silly but overall the plot was fine. They are clearly trying to take this in a direction that moves on from Luke/Leia/Han. Liked Poe’s storyline. Learning that it is more complicated than always being a hero. Rose kinda sucked. I just didn’t dig her character or the actor. I thought her friend who died gave a better performance in the first 5 minutes. She was just too, I don’t know, soft and lame. The character and the actress.

I liked it but understand some of the comments here and I’ll address some of that stuff when I’ve digested and can post more.

But some of these complaints though, wow, talk about over the top. Some people are really reaching for reasons to hate this movie. The prequels are trash. Mentioning them in the same breath as this movie takes away any credibility of your post. Complaints about Rey’s parents are just people who spent too much time online theorizing and missing the entire point of her character arc and storyline. She’s alone and desperate for guidance. At no time did either movie mislead you to think she was gonna be the child Leia or Luke or ObiWan never knew they had. This movie forcefead is that every individual can make a difference. Even the little guy. The fact she’s an orphan is the whole point no matter who her parents are.

Snoke was a placeholder. Like Luke and Leia he is meant to signify the passing of the torch to the new generation. He didn’t need a big backstory. Kylo is the focus here. Making Snoke have some elaborate backstory would just cheapen Kylo’s character and his role as a villain.

The battering ram made perfect sense. The idea that people are making comments that suicide missions should be commonplace and military should be spending huge amounts of money is asinine and it is something that was explicitly covered in this movie wasn’t possible because good and bad guys have to get their stuff from somewhere. Literally nothing about it didn’t make sense. It is abundantly obvious that using it all the time isn’t practical. You’d need dozens of huge ships at a huge cost. You think an XWing could’ve taken out that dreadnaught by flying really fast? Lol ok then. There’s a reason why suicide missions aren’t real popular in real life or these movies, especially when they require huge wastes of resources.

I’m also not upset there were no lightsaber duels. Not every movie needs one. If all you care about is action and not story or character just watch the prequels. I don’t need a meaningless action sequence squeezed in if it doesn’t make any sense. And only two people in the entire universe even have lightsabers.

Someone also mentioned janitors saving the resistance. Uh, what? Finn was a stormtrooper. Remember him on that planet in TFA? He just mentioned that he did some janitor stuff. I guess marines are all janitors too when they get put on latrine duty. And rose was clearly not a janitor. She talked about science #### constantly and could friggin fly a ship. She was obviously some sort of engineer or a mechanic. And even if she was a janitor, who cares? Luke was a hick farm boy. Han was a smuggler. Yoga is two feet tall! Not exactly Navy seals we’re talking about here.

As for Leia in space, the problem there wasn’t the idea, it was the editing. Why did they put in another full scene in between the blowout and her saving herself? It made no sense to cut away and show us Kylo and awful, awful Huxley (more one him in a second). But the idea of her using the force like that was cool, just shouldn’t have come a full minute later because it was jarring.

Ok so the one thing I hated, in TFA too, was the terrible casting and terrible acting of Domnhall Gleason. Honestly his terrible high pitched angry voice, embarrassing over acting and hilarious look just ruin every scene he’s in. It’s like he’s supposed to be comedic relief. But in a cringeworthy way. What the #### were they thinking casting him? And who let him give those Spaceballs worthy performances?

Again though, overall I’d give it a B-. Behind TFA and Rogue One and the originals but still about 5000 parsecs ahead of the “we almost ruined one of Hollywood’s greatest franchises and did ruin Hayden Christensen’s career” prequels. It had some warts and I’ll talk about some of the smaller stuff later but overall solid.

Oh and did anyone else notice the kid force moved the broom at the end?

[White Out 403]

So many dumb plot decisions. Space casino? Space jail? Spending so much time on Rose with all that quality time we had with Ren and Snoke cut short.

I'll post more later after an angry nap.