[PGT] Flames lose 3-2 to San Jose

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I don't buy that at all unless you want players like Johnny to just dump the puck deep and sit back in the 3rd period and play for the tie. We all know fans hate it when teams play for a tie so I'm certainly not going to accept that as a basis to support Gulutzan calling out one player for a team loss. This wasn't a defenseman taking a risky pinch to try and create a rush. It was a forward at the middle of the ice trying to skate the puck up ice. There were two forwards and two defensemen between the puck and the net when he lost the puck and the resulting turnover should have never resulted in a goal in the first place so blaming him is just silly.

He didn't call out one player for a team loss. He was asked to comment on a play and he did. He's not asking JG do dump and sit back all third period. He's asking him not to do that cute play in double coverage and take a safer option at that exact moment.

No, you can question whether it's good to criticize a player like he did, but IMO that's all about reading that particular player and how he will respond to it. On that issue, I can't say. Sutter seemed to know which players you could do that to and which ones needed protection.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by nemanja2306

It's easier to blame a player for a turnover than yourself for your coaching failures.

The guy is absolutely clueless when it comes to managing his players.

I tend to agree when they continue to roll out the same, ineffective PP units game in and game out with almost no changes that last for more than half a game.

What do they think, it's going to finally click sometime in mid January?

Bottom line: Smith saved this team in October and now with him playing simply below league average the last 7-10 starts, the true colours of this group are coming through once again. Unless he gets ridiculously hot again, I can't see this group making a move.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

That's really not why I'm upset with GG, even though I do think he's wrong to do it.

It's a lack of a killer instinct, playing afraid to lose as opposed to a desire to win. The Flames are a timid team that usually plays to the pace of whichever team they are playing and rarely dictate play short of a few individual glimpses of brilliance and the impact of score effects.

Don't agree with that.

In fact I think a lot of the problem this year is letting the game play them instead of playing the game.

They get scored on and they have to take chances the next shift to get it back and instead compile the problem.

They need to actually chill more and let things happen more than they do.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

All the usual frustrations aside, this was another game that was lost because of the PP>

Regarding Brouwer on the PP... sure, he screens the goalie, but he does little to nothing else with respect to gaining the zone and maintaining possession. He simply shouldn't be on it. Also, the team doesn't shoot from the point, so the screen is a pretty low priority most of the time.

Speaking of shots from the point. I have no doubt that Gulutzan has run the numbers, and the numbers probably do show that not many PP goals come from the point. However, the conclusion to not bother teeing up a gun there is the completely wrong conclusion. The way to build a better PP is to have as many weapons, and as many looks as possible. Their problem is that, with no threat of a high shot, the D can collapse low and take away the one play that they are looking for.

With respect to zone entries, one big problem IMO, is that Brodie NEVER threatens to enter the zone. Ever. So the D doesn't have to worry about it. It is going to be Johnny every time. So defend against his zone entry by double-teaming him. This is another problem with having a guy like Brouwer on the PP - he is simply not a threat at the blueline.

Too easy to defend.

But keep trying the same thing, over and over and over because... luck will change?

The PP definitely lost the game. Not only would a goal have made a difference, the momentum switch was palpable.

I don't like the set up either, but I'd change it differently. I don't think the bomb from the point is what's needed, but standing there with the puck sure isn't either. I think more shots in general are, though, and way faster puck movement. Monahan touches the puck way too little. Which means the puck isn't getting to the slot very much.

I'd like to see Gio on the top unit, or else Hamilton. Better at more things than Brodie. I'd like to see Tkachuk on the top unit in place of Brouwer. Or Jagr when he's back. The second unit isn't getting out for much time so I don't mind putting more eggs in one basket.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Don't agree with that.

In fact I think a lot of the problem this year is letting the game play them instead of playing the game.

They get scored on and they have to take chances the next shift to get it back and instead compile the problem.

They need to actually chill more and let things happen more than they do.

This team, to me, seems to be the quintessential 'play the system' team. This is fine when it's working, but now they clearly need a shot in the arm. You can't successfully roll through a season by simply going through the motions more often than naught.

This is clearly a road/home mentality at this point as well. You see an entirely different Flames team when they are wearing the road unis. More intense, dialed in. If the coaching staff thinks will simply turn around without mixing up the lines, adjusting tactics, they are sorely mistaken.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

To me, this quote encapsulates everything that is wrong with this coaching staff:

Darren Haynes‏ @DarrenWHaynes
Glen Gulutzan not happy with Gaudreau's turnover on GWG: "You can't turn back with three minutes left, you can't turn back. You have to play forward. You can't turn back. We needed to get points. We needed to take that into overtime and get the points. We're good at 3-on-3."

This thinking lines up perfectly to how the Flames play. People that say the team isn't buying into GG's system, sure looks they are doing exactly that. And when one mistake happens the coach blames Johnny. It's your fault Gulutzan that one mistake tosses a wrench into your conservative just get to OT system.

Not cool.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The PP definitely lost the game. Not only would a goal have made a difference, the momentum switch was palpable.

I don't like the set up either, but I'd change it differently. I don't think the bomb from the point is what's needed, but standing there with the puck sure isn't either. I think more shots in general are, though, and way faster puck movement. Monahan touches the puck way too little. Which means the puck isn't getting to the slot very much.

I'd like to see Gio on the top unit, or else Hamilton. Better at more things than Brodie. I'd like to see Tkachuk on the top unit in place of Brouwer. Or Jagr when he's back. The second unit isn't getting out for much time so I don't mind putting more eggs in one basket.

IMO, this is because, with no threat from the blueline, the dangerous shot is Monahan. So he is covered aggressively. And because there is so little movement on their PP, he is stationed in one spot, making him pretty easy to mark.

The threat of a shot from the blueline spreads out the D. And more movement is needed.

And yes, it should be Tkachuk in front of the net, not Brouwer.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

This team, to me, seems to be the quintessential 'play the system' team. This is fine when it's working, but now they clearly need a shot in the arm. You can't successfully roll through a season by simply going through the motions more often than naught.

This is clearly a road/home mentality at this point as well. You see an entirely different Flames team when they are wearing the road unis. More intense, dialed in. If the coaching staff thinks will simply turn around without mixing up the lines, adjusting tactics, they are sorely mistaken.

I like play the system teams.

Teams that abandon systems get nowhere quickly as they go individual and get mucked.

And the coaching staff mixed up the lines last night.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

IMO, this is because, with no threat from the blueline, the dangerous shot is Monahan. So he is covered aggressively. And because there is so little movement on their PP, he is stationed in one spot, making him pretty easy to mark.

The threat of a shot from the blueline spreads out the D. And more movement is needed.

And yes, it should be Tkachuk in front of the net, not Brouwer.

Agreed.

They moved Gaudreau to the right side (off side) so his stick is in the middle. That's a good step.

I'd put Hamilton on the left side for the same reason.

Monahan is fine high slot, but the other four should be skating the puck into transitions which confuse the D. The stationary looks work for Bantam teams but not pro hockey.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I like play the system teams.

Teams that abandon systems get nowhere quickly as they go individual and get mucked.

And the coaching staff mixed up the lines last night.

It's not black and white. Teams in the NHL don't just ignore the system in place. It's a matter of knowing when to dial up the intensity (within the system). The only player on the Flames that does this with any regularity is Tkachuk. There are many other guys capable of doing this but none of them seem be willing to ratchet it up and provide a burst when the team needs it. Last night the team was starving for someone to hit the ice and raise the intensity, yet it never happened. To me, it seems like they are being programmed to be way too opportunistic this season instead of trying to make things happen themselves.

What do you think the lineups look like tomorrow night? I'd bet the mortgage on a carbon copy of the last 20 or so games. Gulutzan and co appear to be far to spineless to make adjustments for more than a period or two....scratch that - Coach probably thinks it's time to dress Bartkowski again to shake things up...Barf.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

It's not black and white. Teams in the NHL don't just ignore the system in place. It's a matter of knowing when to dial up the intensity (within the system). The only player on the Flames that does this with any regularity is Tkachuk. There are many other guys capable of doing this but none of them seem be willing to ratchet it up and provide a burst when the team needs it. Last night the team was starving for someone to hit the ice and raise the intensity, yet it never happened. To me, it seems like they are being programmed to be way too opportunistic this season instead of trying to make things happen themselves.

What do you think the lineups look like tomorrow night? I'd bet the mortgage on a carbon copy of the last 20 or so games. Gulutzan and co appear to be far to spineless to make adjustments for more than a period or two....scratch that - Coach probably thinks it's time to dress Bartkowski again to shake things up...Barf.

I thought Gaudreau was hopping the third period last night, Bennett was noticeable with energy on every shift, Tkachuk as you said, Backlund, Jankowski, clearly Hathaway.

Bartkowski has only played one of the last 20 so that's a positive Gulutzan change but you're going to hit him over the head with it?

Brodie and Hamonic have come around because he stuck with it.

Sometimes patience is smart as well.

[belsarius]

I don't know why people are getting upset at GG's comments. I was screaming at the tv about the same thing as it happened, Johnny quit being too fancy and just get it in. Under 3 mins to go, yeah you want the win but you have to be smart about puck control instead of forcing and giving up a turnover. Sure there was a trip but if he had pushed the puck forward it wouldn't have even been an issue.

I also don't think it was a one-time, one game comment. His play in the last few games has been very forced and trying to find plays where there are none. Skating into multiple defenders, trying high danger plays, sure its great when they payoff, but with 3 mins to go in a tight tied game you need to make the safe play.

I wouldn't hang the whole game on his head, but yeah on that play he should have been smarter.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Agreed.

They moved Gaudreau to the right side (off side) so his stick is in the middle. That's a good step.

I'd put Hamilton on the left side for the same reason.

Monahan is fine high slot, but the other four should be skating the puck into transitions which confuse the D. The stationary looks work for Bantam teams but not pro hockey.

They've moved Gaudreau to the right side on sthe PP at various times but it never sticks. It may be his preference to play there however.

I see the same set up: Brodie skates puck up to neutral zone who bumps it back to Gaudreau. Gaudreau attacks blue line from left side and either holds on or passes to Monahan who is waiting against boards on the left.

Many times they're dispossessed or if they do gain the same three guys move the puck slowly. As another poster indicated they are looking for rebounds, high tip or Monahan in the slot.

They use half the ice. It's so predictable. PP2 play dump and chase. Very little generated.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I thought Gaudreau was hopping the third period last night, Bennett was noticeable with energy on every shift, Tkachuk as you said, Backlund, Jankowski, clearly Hathaway.

Bartkowski has only played one of the last 20 so that's a positive Gulutzan change but you're going to hit him over the head with it?

Brodie and Hamonic have come around because he stuck with it.

Sometimes patience is smart as well.

Well there are positives almost every game. These are pro athletes after all in a highly competitive league.

The results need to start following.

[VANFLAMESFAN]

Originally Posted by zamler

This thinking lines up perfectly to how the Flames play. People that say the team isn't buying into GG's system, sure looks they are doing exactly that. And when one mistake happens the coach blames Johnny. It's your fault Gulutzan that one mistake tosses a wrench into your conservative just get to OT system.

Not cool.

I wanna know what coach doesn't want his team to play safe in the same situation.

Big division game, tied on point with the team you're playing, tie game very late. What coach tells his players to take chances and go for the win?

He wanted his team to play it safe late in the third because that's the right thing to do. It's not as if they were tied going into the third and he told his guys to trap to get to OT. He wanted safe plays from his guy late in the third period of a tie game and is getting grilled for that? Really?

[Love]

For an offensive defenseman, Dougie has surprisingly awful puck control and passing accuracy

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Love

For an offensive defenseman, Dougie has surprisingly awful puck control and passing accuracy

I think his passing accuracy tends to be fine. It’s his passes that I find more troublesome because it doesn’t seem to be clean a lot of the time. His passes seem to bounce off of guy’s sticks or they have to reset or take extra time to craddle it into a more comfortable position. It’s like he passes it too hard or the passes aren’t flat enough. But I would gladly take that problem if his footwork and positioning could improve. Still far too many penalties for my liking.

[calumniate]

Originally Posted by belsarius

I don't know why people are getting upset at GG's comments. I was screaming at the tv about the same thing as it happened, Johnny quit being too fancy and just get it in. Under 3 mins to go, yeah you want the win but you have to be smart about puck control instead of forcing and giving up a turnover. Sure there was a trip but if he had pushed the puck forward it wouldn't have even been an issue.

I also don't think it was a one-time, one game comment. His play in the last few games has been very forced and trying to find plays where there are none. Skating into multiple defenders, trying high danger plays, sure its great when they payoff, but with 3 mins to go in a tight tied game you need to make the safe play.

I wouldn't hang the whole game on his head, but yeah on that play he should have been smarter.

I agree completely with you and with GG's comments. I've seen, and defenders have seen the 'Johnny Buttonhook' play a thousand times. If we were down 3-2 it would have been a play. That said, Mike Smith was still rushing and forcing plays all night. It could have worked but with two minutes to go you can't accept that as a coach. Good on GG.. better luck next game!

[cannon7]

Every goal against was laziness and a lack of intensity. Not back checking, not covering your man, not tying up sticks, not finishing checks. If that's the system, screw the system.

As usual Gulutzan isn't focusing on the right things.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Every goal against was laziness and a lack of intensity. Not back checking, not covering your man, not tying up sticks, not finishing checks. If that's the system, screw the system.

As usual Gulutzan isn't focusing on the right things.

You're listing hockey 101 mistakes but saying Gulutzan isn't focusing on the right things?

"Hey guys, I have an idea ... lets not back check, please don't cover anyone, oh and don't tie up sticks, ... and one more thing, don't finish your checks"

As usual players aren't executing basic hockey plays, and some are focusing on the coach.