[PGT] Flames 1 - Wild 2 (SO)

[Stanley]

Well, I hope Tkachuk has another SO move up his sleeve...

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Stanley

Well, I hope Tkachuk has another SO move up his sleeve...

He says he's got three moves. I think he just figure keep going on this one until it stopped working. It didn't work.

[CroFlames]

Did old NASL clubs get points for losing those ridiculous shootouts where players ran up from half?

I don't know I would feel solace that the NHL wasn't the first pro sports league to hand out points for losing, or embarrassment that they copied a stupid idea of handing out points for losing.

You should not get a point for losing, plain and ####ing simple.

[fire_starter]

After 31 games last year: 16-13-2

After 31 games this year: 16-12-3

Baby steps!

[taxbuster]

Hated the game - boring, boring, boring, until the OT which was phenomenal though frustrating.

Have to give Minny credit for the OT, however - the way they kept themselves for the most part between the Flames and the goal and kept the shooting angles wide each time was pretty impressive. Didn't give the Flames a lot - and even so they had a couple of open nets.

I thought Backs and Frolik had the most problem with that - couldn't get open enough. Kind of an interesting defensive technique though by the Wild. (I couldn't imaging being forced to watch that team all the time as a STH though -- ick.)

Loved the Flames start - it was fantastic, just no finish. Oh well, got a point, move on.

[Geeoff]

So many wide open nets missed. Very frustrating OT. Oh well it is what it is. Surprised both Tkachuk and Monahan missed in the shootout. I probably wouldn't have gone with Bennett either, since shooting % hasn't really been his forte. Maybe Giordano?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

So many wide open nets missed. Very frustrating OT. Oh well it is what it is. Surprised both Tkachuk and Monahan missed in the shootout. I probably wouldn't have gone with Bennett either, since shooting % hasn't really been his forte. Maybe Giordano?

Pretty big indication on what the offensive outlook for this team is.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Pretty big indication on what the offensive outlook for this team is.

Why?

The s/o is a staged event and that is likely why some players are crappy at it -- the guys who can think fast and just react seem to do better on just straight open breakaways. Too much time prepping and thinking in the s/o - and it affects a LOT of players who are otherwise clutch scorers.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

Why?

The s/o is a staged event and that is likely why some players are crappy at it -- the guys who can think fast and just react seem to do better on just straight open breakaways. Too much time prepping and thinking in the s/o - and it affects a LOT of players who are otherwise clutch scorers.

Yeah, but we're talking about replacing guys who aren't clutch scorers with defenders.

The idea that Giordano might go 4th or 5th in the shootout is not a ringing endorsement of the offensive depth of the roster. Gio's scored 20 goals more recently than Frolik has, for example.

It suggests to a further degree that if Monahan and Gaudreau aren't scoring, the team isn't scoring.

Have the Flames won a shootout in the last 3 years where Monahan and Gaudurea didn't score? Serious question.

Me personally, I don't care, I usually turn the game off if things are tied after OT, but when faced with a situation where the team requires pure offensive skill, having the choice between the 5th shooter being a guy who has never scored 20 or a defender, I don't think that's a great endorsement of the team's top-end offensive skill.

Again, I don't think it matters, the shootout is stupid, but it stands to reason that the teams with the highest goals for per game at the end of the year will likely also be a team with a strong shootout record.

Someone wanna crunch some stats for me based on this post?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

Why?

The s/o is a staged event and that is likely why some players are crappy at it -- the guys who can think fast and just react seem to do better on just straight open breakaways. Too much time prepping and thinking in the s/o - and it affects a LOT of players who are otherwise clutch scorers.

And some guys are money in SOs who aren't outstanding scorers otherwise. J. Jokinen, Schlemko, Colborne, Pirri.

Meanwhile, I think Ovie is below the average of players who regularly take SOs.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

...Again, I don't think it matters, the shootout is stupid, but it stands to reason that the teams with the highest goals for per game at the end of the year will likely also be a team with a strong shootout record.

Someone wanna crunch some stats for me based on this post?

Last season the top five scoring teams were Pittsburgh, Minnesota, Washington, NYR, and Toronto. In shootouts they were respectively:

Pittsburgh: 4/9 9G 34.61SP
Minnesota: 3/5 8G 38.09SP
Washington: 2/7 8G 33.33SP
NYR: 3/7 7G 35.00SP
Toronto: 1/9 5G 17.85SP

The top shootout team was Detroit who went 9/9, scored 15 goals and had a 40.54SP They were #26 in goals-scored.

So, no. There looks to be no correlation at all between shootout success and team offence.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by fire_starter

After 31 games last year: 16-13-2

After 31 games this year: 16-12-3

Baby steps!

Does this include the winning streak from last year?

[Itse]

Originally Posted by fire_starter

After 31 games last year: 16-13-2

After 31 games this year: 16-12-3

Baby steps!

Consistency!

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Last season the top five scoring teams were Pittsburgh, Minnesota, Washington, NYR, and Toronto. In shootouts they were respectively:

Pittsburgh: 4/9 9G 34.61SP
Minnesota: 3/5 8G 38.09SP
Washington: 2/7 8G 33.33SP
NYR: 3/7 7G 35.00SP
Toronto: 1/9 5G 17.85SP

The top shootout team was Detroit who went 9/9, scored 15 goals and had a 40.54SP They were #26 in goals-scored.

So, no. There looks to be no correlation at all between shootout success and team offence.

What did the bottom 5 offensive teams look like in terms of the shootout success rate?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

What did the bottom 5 offensive teams look like in terms of the shootout success rate?

The lowest scoring teams were Colorado, Vancouver, NJD, Arizona, and Detroit, and they fared as follows:

Colorado: 1/3 2G 22.22SP
Vancouver: 4/6 5G 29.41SP
NJD: 3/6 6G 33.33SP
Arizona: 6/8 11G 39.28SP
Detroit: 9/9 15G 40.54SP

It looks to me like a team in the shootout is either good and lucky, or not good and unlucky. There does not seem to be any useful predictor of success to be drawn from performances in the shootout.

[CroFlames]

The best goal scorer of this generation, and maybe ever, is not some standout stud shootout guy. There's no correlation between good hockey player and good at the shootout.

The breakaway challenge is not hockey. It's a gimmicky way to end a hockey match and award a point for to the losing team. Think about that. Award a point for losing.

Bottles the mind.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

What did the bottom 5 offensive teams look like in terms of the shootout success rate?

Bottom 5 offensive teams:

Detroit: 9-9 / 40.54 sp
Arizona: 6-2 / 39.28 sp
New Jersey: 3-3 / 33.33 sp
Vancouver: 4-2 / 29.41 sp
Colorado: 1-2 / 22.22 sp

So the only team in the top 5 scoring teams last year with a shooting percentage less than 33% was toronto, while the only 2 teams in the bottom 5 for scoring had a shooting percentage above 33%.

So it seems to suggest that teams that score more during the regular season will score more during the shootout, but that may not translate into wins.

Last year the flames were 4-2 in the shootout with a shooting percentage of 25.92%

This year thus far they are 2-2 with a shooting percentage of 40%.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

The best goal scorer of this generation, and maybe ever, is not some standout stud shootout guy. There's no correlation between good hockey player and good at the shootout.

The breakaway challenge is not hockey. It's a gimmicky way to end a hockey match and award a point for to the losing team. Think about that. Award a point for losing.

Bottles the mind.

To me it's always been a point for tying in 65 minutes, and the SO is an extra point. Semantics maybe, but also backed up by the fact that a ROW is more valuable.

[VANFLAMESFAN]

Originally Posted by keenan87

Does this include the winning streak from last year?

No the winning streak was in late February/early March. But it also doesn't include the 5-8-1 January where rock bottom was hit after the pathetic loss in Montreal. That was the run of 4 games in a row where they were down 4-0 at one point of the game.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

...So the only team in the top 5 scoring teams last year with a shooting percentage less than 33% was toronto, while the only 2 teams in the bottom 5 for scoring had a shooting percentage above 33%.

So it seems to suggest that teams that score more during the regular season will score more during the shootout, but that may not translate into wins...

Yeah, I thought about that, but the range in both directions is pretty substantial. Enough so that I still don't believe there is any meaningful correlation between shootout success and team offence.