Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal

[Loyal and True]

Originally Posted by Canehdianman

We don't all have big bonuses from CSEC to rely on at Christmas time, Eric.

No, some of us are struggling to pay your salary and bonus while you're railing against rich people on the internet during company time.

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Why? Nenshi never wastes an opportunity in front of the microphone to twist the knife in Edwards back. There is a difference between having a political stance and being a smug jerk. People like to pile in Ken King and rightly so but Nenshi is his match as both are egotistical bullies. Quite frankly I'm embarrassed by everyone involved in this situation. No wonder they can't get anything accomplished with these two heading up discussions. Now this stuff is national it's just an embarrassment for the city.

yeah, it's not a coincidence that Nenshi gets in public pissing matches with a bunch of other entities besides CSEC. Really something to think about for the "Nenshi is just one vote on council" crowd, as if being the mayor doesn't give you extra power.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Canehdianman

We don't all have big bonuses from CSEC to rely on at Christmas time, Eric.

IS this a real thing?

There is actually something concrete that Francis is receiving money from CSEC?

[Canehdianman]

Originally Posted by transplant99

IS this a real thing?

There is actually something concrete that Francis is receiving money from CSEC?

I have absolutely no idea. I'm just responding to trolls with random gibberish.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Loyal and True

Oh gimme a break.... Your comment just reaffirmed to me that most poor people have no clue.

It’s possible to understand the current climate of professional sports and arena deals while also recognizing that the status quo benefits the team owners more than the public and wanting to change that.

I would rather the city fight for the best deal possible and risk the team leaving than to just give them whatever they want. The flames need to realize we are not Edmonton, and more importantly the public needs to understand that the oilers’ arena deal is a completely different situation when you look at the investments the ownership group put into revitalizing their downtown beyond building the arena. To compare the two is like comparing apples to oranges. Edmonton’s situation would only compare to ours if our downtown was the same as it was 20 years ago before the city had already spent billions of tax dollars to revitalize the core. The CSEC are acting as if we will be getting the same return as Edmonton, when they are able to admit to themselves that we won’t and that no one is falling for it, I think you will see negotiations start back up again.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Locke

I've been mulling it over a fair bit and my attitude has shifted somewhat from being on Nenshi's side to siding a bit with the CSEC, I was talking with someone at my wife's Christmas Party and he made some really good points.

The big issue here, I think, is that the City are playing accounting games which needs to stop and we also have to understand that we are not Seattle.

The City's proposal has some warts, I think it simply wont work, but CSEC's proposal is unpalatable from a Citizen's perspective, but I think theres lots of room to meet in the middle.

But I do believe that we as Citizens are going to have to give something without getting anything tangible back. I know thats Nenshi's sticking point, and I dont know how they're going to get around it, but the City is going to have to kick in some cash that comes without strings. Once thats acknowledged it becomes a matter of 'how much?'

Or the city could just not budge. They don't *need* the new arena. If were the city I'd just sweat CSEC out. Nenshi won a plurality with this as an election issue. I'd be feeling like I don't need to make many/any concessions at this point.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Loyal and True

No, some of us are struggling to pay your salary and bonus while you're railing against rich people on the internet during company time.

Maybe if you focused on your own business instead of wasting your company’s time on the internet you wouldn’t be struggling as much.

[Loyal and True]

Originally Posted by rotten42

He can do his job without out being an arrogant pr*ck. The way he is acting is no better than the way King is. There is a way to do business and both sides are going about it the wrong way.

I agree but now we have Eric Francis putting his own self interest in this issue and doing whatever he can to draw attention to himself. Francis is clearly a liability to whichever side he chooses to associate with. Of course he would side with the industry he leeches from. Eric is a moron and King should be fired for being associated with him.

[burn_this_city]

I wish they'd get going on this to capture some of the cost savings in construction seen in the province right now. If we dither on this for another year or two and oil goes back to $75-80 there will be cost escalation. They could easily haggle over a couple hundred million or so and then lose that money in higher construction costs down the road.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by transplant99

IS this a real thing?

There is actually something concrete that Francis is receiving money from CSEC?

No. CSEC is actually not the biggest fan of some of Francis’ reporting.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by transplant99

IS this a real thing?

There is actually something concrete that Francis is receiving money from CSEC?

I don’t believe Francis is on the flames’ payroll, however he knows if the flames leave he’s basically out of a job. He might stick with the sun, but he likely wouldn’t remain part of the sports net broadcast team.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

The posturing, the attempt to buy an election, acting as if they are smarter than the majority of Calgarians, etc...

Attempting to "buy an election"?

Good grief.

Sure they had a preferred candidate and backed him. Isnt that what every donor to every candidate does in every election?

At any rate, all the CSEC is doing is trying to negotiate a deal they like. As is the city. Why Ken King has become the target of some really disgusting characterizations/name calling on this board is so strange to me. Im surprised its been allowed to go as far as it has actually. The guy isn't the one making the decisions on CSEC's part and to believe he is, is ridiculous. He is paid handsomely to be the face and voice of his bosses. It certainly takes away from any rational discussion to act otherwise.

However. all involved are public figures and have to take bullets from those that disagree with them, and that's fair game to a point. To feel it embarrassing to oneself seems a bit odd to me though.

I think far more embarrassing to the city itself, is the inability to get a deal done on both a new arena and a new football stadium when every other jurisdiction in the country with teams in the same leagues has been able to figure it out. There is a common denominator in that as well.

Again, Calgary seems to feel it's the one city in Canada that is smarter than everyone else..under the "leadership" of the same guy in every instance.

[Cube Inmate]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Nenshi won a plurality with this as an election issue. I'd be feeling like I don't need to make many/any concessions at this point.

He won an outright majority with this as an election issue.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I wish they'd get going on this to capture some of the cost savings in construction seen in the province right now. If we dither on this for another year or two and oil goes back to $75-80 there will be cost escalation. They could easily haggle over a couple hundred million or so and then lose that money in higher construction costs down the road.

The flames probably aren’t as concerned with those costs as the city is. At the end of the day they would have a revenue source to ease the burden where as tax payers would be stuck footing the bill for their portion.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Or the city could just not budge. They don't *need* the new arena. If were the city I'd just sweat CSEC out. Nenshi won a plurality with this as an election issue. I'd be feeling like I don't need to make many/any concessions at this point.

They do if they wish to hold an Olympics...which I assume they do since they are footing a rather large bill to send some from city council, MLA's and the mayor to South Korea in an effort to attract them here.

Since that is the case. they can actually involve the CSEC in their plans and what works for both sides, or they can foot the entire bill themselves, wait until the Olympics have come and gone, and then sit down and try to negotaite a favorable lease with a major tenant that pays the bills for the next 30 years. Wonder who that could be?

Sweat out the CSEC? LMAO

[Loyal and True]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Maybe if you focused on your own business instead of wasting your company’s time on the internet you wouldn’t be struggling as much.

You obviously don't understand my business. Not your fault.

Actually I take this issue seriously as something that affects corporate Calgary as a whole.

So much social media is anti-rich academic nonsense which damages the rational discussion that should be happening.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Attempting to "buy an election"?

Good grief.

Sure they had a preferred candidate and backed him. Isnt that what every donor to every candidate does in every election?

Yes, which is why sensible limits to political contributions are a good thing for any democracy.

At any rate, all the CSEC is doing is trying to negotiate a deal they like. As is the city. Why Ken King has become the target of some really disgusting characterizations/name calling on this board is so strange to me. Im surprised its been allowed to go as far as it has actually. The guy isn't the one making the decisions on CSEC's part and to believe he is, is ridiculous. He is paid handsomely to be the face and voice of his bosses. It certainly takes away from any rational discussion to act otherwise.

However. all involved are public figures and have to take bullets from those that disagree with them, and that's fair game to a point. To feel it embarrassing to oneself seems a bit odd to me though.

I think far more embarrassing to the city itself, is the inability to get a deal done on both a new arena and a new football stadium when every other jurisdiction in the country with teams in the same leagues has been able to figure it out. There is a common denominator in that as well.

Ken King is the spokesperson, dealing with the backlash is part of his job. But I do agree that some people’s critiquing has been way over the line.

Again, Calgary seems to feel it's the one city in Canada that is smarter than everyone else..under the "leadership" of the same guy in every instance.

I think you would benefit from doing some more research on this, thus far Edmonton is the exception, not the rule. I know we don’t agree on a lot of things but if you truly feel as though the flames are handling this arrogantly due to a belief that the flames’ demands would be met by any other municipality you are seriously misinformed about what other cities have contributed to their teams’ buildings.

[RM14]

I am thinking that CSEC is waiting to hear the Olympic bid strategy. It might take months to see any kind of amended funding proposals from either side. But because the City is actively exploring an Olympic bid, CSEC might as well wait to see what comes out of that.

To maintain the leverage over CSEC, the City strategy there was to mention (not propose) that they can explore the idea of hosting the Hockey in Edmonton. However, the City knows they would never do that and I think CSEC knows it.

IMO we will all have to wait till the City comes to a decision about their Olympic Bid, before anything else moves forward. Maybe Spring or Summer?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Loyal and True

You obviously don't understand my business. Not your fault.

Actually I take this issue seriously as something that affects corporate Calgary as a whole.

So much social media is anti-rich academic nonsense which damages the rational discussion that should be happening.

How much is this arena negotiation impacting your business right now? If it’s not, I think you owe it to your employees to focus on your business so you’re not struggling to pay their salaries. (As you claimed)

Just my 2 cents though

[Lord Carnage]

Originally Posted by Cube Inmate

He won an outright majority with this as an election issue.

That's a fact, but only 1/2 the story.

4 years ago he won a majority with 193,000 votes out of the 250,000 people who voted (around 74% of the popular vote).
This time he won a majority with 199,000 votes out of the 385,000 people who votes (around 51% of the popular vote).

So yes, he won a majority, but just barely.

Someone other than Nenshi could consider that almost as many people voted against him as for him... one could even say that more people came out to vote AGAINST him as his vote count almost didn't change from last time, even though voter turnout was up by almost 50%. Someone other than he could maybe think about those things and be a little more conciliatory...

Good or bad, Nenshi just doesn't have that in his personality.