Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by Fire

The cost of buying and moving a franchise would be the same if the they bought the Coyotes or Flames. The value of the franchise in their old city is irrelevant. Bettman wouldn't allow the Coyotes to be sold and moved for only $200 million.

IIRC that was why the relocation fee for Atlanta to Winnipeg was relatively low. The $170M was what TNSE were willing to pay for the Coyotes when they were waiting for the sweetheart deal from Glendale, so when the city caved and gave the huge AMF, TNSE bought the Thrashers for $110M but the league was going to get their $170M either way, hence the relocation fee.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Speak for yourself. In the big picture the team means more to this city than most would admit. I don't think people appreciate how having a team takes away some of the dreariness of a Canadian winter. There's a reason Winnipeg got a team back and the fans have never supported the team better as they know what it was like to not have a team.

I got to maybe 1 or 2 games a year, and only when I can get free tickets. Everything else about the Flames and NHL I follow digitally. This isn't 1996. You can follow any sports franchise you want and get as much information about them as fans in their city do. If the Flames leave, I have the option of continuing to follow them in another city, or picking another NHL team to follow. Both options work just as well to 'take away the dreariness of a Canadian winter' as following the Flames locally.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I got to maybe 1 or 2 games a year, and only when I can get free tickets. Everything else about the Flames and NHL I follow digitally. This isn't 1996. You can follow any sports franchise you want and get as much information about them as fans in their city do. If the Flames leave, I have the option of continuing to follow them in another city, or picking another NHL team to follow. Both options work just as well to 'take away the dreariness of a Canadian winter' as following the Flames locally.

Almost easier to follow another team online, not dealing with blackouts

[Loyal and True]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Uh huh, "other comparable markets". Alright CSEC... I submit Winnipeg & Vancouver as "comparable markets"... you will of course submit Edmonton. Let's see what non-private financing they got...

Edmonton: 200M in Public Money
Winnipeg: 41M in Public Money
Vancouver: 0M in Public Money

... by all means let's discuss a deal structured much closer to what other comparable markets have done.

If you knew anything about Arthur Griffiths you wouldn't be using Vancouver as your argument

[Loyal and True]

Originally Posted by Major Major

So you honestly believe that first the NHL will sell and move the 15 to 20 teams in a worse financial spot than the flames, then circle back and move Calgary? This is the concern? There is like one relocation per decade in the NHL. There aren't a lot of Houston/Seattle markets out there, and 1 is earmarked for expansion. This is really reaching, sorry to say.

No I expect a few crappy situations will get resolved one way or another.

You don't think Calgary will be in a crappy situation with a 40 year old building with no new plan.

I think you have no idea.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by Loyal and True

No I expect a few crappy situations will get resolved one way or another.

You don't think Calgary will be in a crappy situation with a 40 year old building with no new plan.

I think you have no idea.

Well how could I not have an idea from reading such vague nonsense as this?

What do I think? I think that the city and CSEC will quietly get together in the first half of 2018 and use the city's proposal as a starting point for a deal. Whether or not Murray Edwards is still holding his share of the company. I have no idea.

[Nsd1]

Elliotte Friedman
@FriedgeHNIC
Had a brief chat with CAL owner Murray Edwards. Said team is not for sale. He didn’t want to say more than that...although, when asked, added there are no meetings planned with the city at this time.

Maybe Murray can move the team to London so they're closer to home.

[Press Level]

God, I wish Harley Hotchkiss was still alive.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Loyal and True

If you knew anything about Arthur Griffiths you wouldn't be using Vancouver as your argument

Weren't the arena and its 2 major tenants (the Canucks and the NBA Grizzlies) sold in receivership 2 years after it opened? And Vancouver lost the Grizzlies as a result. If I understand correctly, Vancouver re-zoned the surrounding area so Griffiths could build a series of apartment towers, foregoing millions of dollars in revenues the city would have collected if the surrounding area had been zoned as originally planned. So I believe you are right, GM Place/Roger's Arena is a poor model for any arena development in Calgary.

[Moneyhands23]

I sometimes wonder if the city should try and Purchase the Flames and build the areana. Very expensive but a possibly good long term investment.

Works well for greenbay

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Nsd1

Elliotte Friedman
@FriedgeHNIC
Had a brief chat with CAL owner Murray Edwards. Said team is not for sale. He didn’t want to say more than that...although, when asked, added there are no meetings planned with the city at this time.

Maybe Murray can move the team to London so they're closer to home.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, I think they need to remove Nenshi and King from frontline negotiations. Let others bang out the little bits but this relationship is toxic and isnt working.

As long as these two are constantly banging heads this train has run out of steam.

[troutman]

The hearsay I get from folks that sometimes visit the owners’s box is that the Flames will not move, an arena deal will get done, and what we are seeing is public posturing.

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by Locke

I've said this before and I'll say it again, I think they need to remove Nenshi and King from frontline negotiations. Let others bang out the little bits but this relationship is toxic and isnt working.

Nenshi is not involved in front-line negotiations.

Council sets the mandate and parameters that Administration executes. Administration handles the negotiating with CSEC.

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by Locke

I've said this before and I'll say it again, I think they need to remove Nenshi and King from frontline negotiations. Let others bang out the little bits but this relationship is toxic and isnt working.



As long as these two are constantly banging heads this train has run out of steam.

Nenshi is already not part of negotiations. His only involvement is as the face of the city, and when the flames meet with council. But otherwise, he’s not in the negotiations.

[stamps]

Originally Posted by kermitology

Nenshi is already not part of negotiations. His only involvement is as the face of the city, and when the flames meet with council. But otherwise, he’s not in the negotiations.

Nenshi said they have a professional negotiator..

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Press Level

God, I wish Harley Hotchkiss was still alive.

So true. Regardless of how Harley would have honestly felt about the respective positions of each side he would always show respect for everyone involved, remain optimistic and never threaten fans and other stakeholders.

A true gentleman.

[TheScorpion]

I had the pleasure of meeting Harley Hotchkiss shortly before he passed away. He and Pat Quinn were two of the nicest men I've ever met.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I had the pleasure of meeting Harley Hotchkiss shortly before he passed away. He and Pat Quinn were two of the nicest men I've ever met.

You need to stop meeting people.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

So true. Regardless of how Harley would have honestly felt about the respective positions of each side he would always show respect for everyone involved, remain optimistic and never threaten fans and other stakeholders.

A true gentleman.

Every member of the Flames ownership group has deep roots in western Canada. Pro sports teams are all about the egos of the owners - I do not believe for a moment any of them bought into the Calgary Flames to move them over an arena.

This will get done.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by nik-

You need to stop meeting people.

Funny story about Pat Quinn -- I met him in 2009, a few days after he'd been named coach of the Oilers. I'd only really started following the Flames the previous season but I already knew that the Oilers=no good.

So I see Pat Quinn at the Alberta Hockey Hall of Fame, he's being inducted that day. So, with my dad, I go up to him and I say, without really thinking, "I'm a HUGE Calgary Flames fan!" My dad just kinda looks at me, and then looks at this giant man who I've just addressed who towers over my dad and especially me.

And Pat sticks out his hand. "See this finger?" He extends his finger. "See this thumb?" His thumb, next. "See this fist, you Flames bum!" And he gives me a soft rap on the shoulder, gives an enormous belly laugh, winks, and says "enjoy the season, although I gotta say, I hope I enjoy it more!" And he has a great chat with my dad, and then goes up on stage to give his induction speech.

Tremendous man, and a moment I'll never forget. RIP Pat Quinn, one of hockey's best men ever.