[PGT] Flames 3 Habs 2 OT WIN

[red sky]

Was worried Gaudreau was going to get called for the hold as he was defending the guy driving to the net. Looked close but I imagine Habs fans are not happy about that.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I sometimes feel like other people watch different games than me.

-He gave the puck away right to the middle of the ice in the Flames zone, with zero pressure
-He makes a nice move in the offensive zone to maintain control of the puck, and gives it neatly to an opponent
-He got the puck down low repeatedly and did nothing but give it away
-He's never where he's supposed to be in his own end
-The powerplay is far more effective when he's not on it
-Played with Backlund and Frolik and absolutely tanked their offense


There's no justifiable train for him to be on the ice

I honestly think hockey players need to be evaluated with filters. The filter you choose is what you are going to see.

If I put my "free agent signing 4 years for 4.5M and 2.5 years to go" filter on I'm seething angry every time he steps on the ice.

If I put on my "what's the best fourth line we can build" filter, then I actually like the guy.

I'll never force a filter on any fan, but if you deem him a fourth liner, he's a good one. If you look at the salaries on the team and where he sorts he's a hot mess.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

Don't look now but Monahan is tied for 3rd with Tavares for goal and 2 back from kucherov.

Not a elite centre my ass.

Funny that almost sounds like Yoda being hard on his corn hole!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by nemanja2306

Wow...

Sent from my WAS-LX1A using Tapatalk

hot take.

[genetic_phreek]

I gotta say, in a thread last year I said Mony hit his ceiling as a player and I will happily eat crow for that. Not just statistically this year but I notice his skating is getting better, he's getting faster, stronger, and smarter in every part of his game.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I honestly think hockey players need to be evaluated with filters. The filter you choose is what you are going to see.

If I put my "free agent signing 4 years for 4.5M and 2.5 years to go" filter on I'm seething angry every time he steps on the ice.

If I put on my "what's the best fourth line we can build" filter, then I actually like the guy.

I'll never force a filter on any fan, but if you deem him a fourth liner, he's a good one. If you look at the salaries on the team and where he sorts he's a hot mess.

Sure, but in a capped world you have to evaluate based on the room they take on your cap space. He's making 5 times what hathaway does. Sure having him as a veteran calming influence is worth a bit but not 3.8 million bucks.

Also, and I know this isn't his fault, but what in the absolute hell is he doing on the PP.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Sure, but in a capped world you have to evaluate based on the room they take on your cap space. He's making 5 times what hathaway does. Sure having him as a veteran calming influence is worth a bit but not 3.8 million bucks.

Also, and I know this isn't his fault, but what in the absolute hell is he doing on the PP.

Last night was more understandable without Tkachuk. Plus, he's the biggest body they have to stand in front of the net and be an obstacle that can't be moved. When Jankowski fills out, he'd be good at it. Ferland is probably the best option right now. Hathaway might suffice as well.

[SOMBRI2]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

I gotta say, in a thread last year I said Mony hit his ceiling as a player and I will happily eat crow for that. Not just statistically this year but I notice his skating is getting better, he's getting faster, stronger, and smarter in every part of his game.

I was thinking more how he can breakout and to what level. May be we haven't had an elite centre man for so long that I can not even draw any reference to. But Mony stepped up big time in the Ducks series and that was the starting point. He was able to carry over that body of work to this season which is very exciting. It also shows the maturity in him.

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I honestly think hockey players need to be evaluated with filters. The filter you choose is what you are going to see.

If I put my "free agent signing 4 years for 4.5M and 2.5 years to go" filter on I'm seething angry every time he steps on the ice.

If I put on my "what's the best fourth line we can build" filter, then I actually like the guy.

I'll never force a filter on any fan, but if you deem him a fourth liner, he's a good one. If you look at the salaries on the team and where he sorts he's a hot mess.

I used to think the same way, but I disagree now.

Last season, the 4th line was good until Brouwer eventually found his way there. Fine, he was having a poor year, and he would be rebound this season. I really believed he would. IIRC, Stajan was having a much better year until Brouwer joined him.

Brouwer LOOKED like he was about to turn it around this year. I thought to start the year, he was effective on the PK. He was making some good plays - that assist on Monahan's goal early in the year I thought was a thing of beauty, both in terms of skill and IQ/awareness.

However, that 4th line keeps getting hemmed-in. It keeps getting caught in the offensive zone. When the puck is turned over, I usually notice it has been a Brouwer missed shot, or lost board battle.

A good 4th liner is reliable defensively, plays with some jam, hopefully provides some speed out there, and hopefully can take a PK shift. Though I see him on the PK, the PK numbers have been awful this season (though it is turning around).

I am not a Brouwer hater, and I was convinced that last season could easily be explained away with the injury and adjusting to a new team. However, every line he finds himself on he manages to drag down, and if what I remember is correct, that includes the 4th line last season. I don't see him making enough positive contributions on a 4th line, and whenever it is sent out, I cringe at that line getting hemmed-in and sucking the energy out of the team. It isn't every shift, but it is often.

What makes you think he is a good 4th liner, even ignoring his salary and assuming he is a league-minimum contract? I just don't see it. I thought I would see it. I think at the start of the year I made a post or two that included him as 'great depth'. but over the last month I see Brouwer seemingly regressing again, rather than returning to form.

I honestly think that even if you ignore salaries, Freddie Hamilton is a more effective 4th liner. He is faster, he plays with more jam, he is harder on the forecheck, and he skates harder to recover. Maybe the advanced stats say differently, but I do believe if the organization ran with him for a while on the 4th line, that line would start improving a bit. Just my perception anyway (though Hamilton isn't my ideal 4th liner either, and I am in no way campaigning for him to get more ice-time).

I just don't see Brouwer as a good 4th liner at any price.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Sure, but in a capped world you have to evaluate based on the room they take on your cap space. He's making 5 times what hathaway does. Sure having him as a veteran calming influence is worth a bit but not 3.8 million bucks.

Also, and I know this isn't his fault, but what in the absolute hell is he doing on the PP.

Once a player is signed I think that's up to the viewer.

From a cap standpoint it will never be a good deal. But now that they've moved him down the roster to where he belongs it doesn't hurt the lineup as bad.

[kevman]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Sure, but in a capped world you have to evaluate based on the room they take on your cap space. He's making 5 times what hathaway does. Sure having him as a veteran calming influence is worth a bit but not 3.8 million bucks.

Nobody is defending his contract. It's a bad contract. Treliving absolutely wants a mulligan on that one. Unfortunately that isn't an option and it is what it is. I have no doubt that they tried to do whatever they could in the offseason to get rid of his contract. The only reason they haven't bought him out yet is because they can still afford the contract. They might even keep him next year if they feel they can better deal with the cap hit in 2018/19 instead of an extra buy out year in 2021/22.

So with that said, knowing there is absolutely nothing that can be done with the terrible contract you can a) dwell on the terrible contract or b) move on an accept that he isn't a bad 4th liner.

[Itse]

Brouwer might not be a bad 4th liner, but he's not a good 4th liner either.

[Travis Munroe]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I honestly think hockey players need to be evaluated with filters. The filter you choose is what you are going to see.

If I put my "free agent signing 4 years for 4.5M and 2.5 years to go" filter on I'm seething angry every time he steps on the ice.

If I put on my "what's the best fourth line we can build" filter, then I actually like the guy.

I'll never force a filter on any fan, but if you deem him a fourth liner, he's a good one. If you look at the salaries on the team and where he sorts he's a hot mess.

First shift - Brouwer is one of the better 4th line players in the league
Second shift - 4.5m for this guy to be on our 4th line
Third shift - What the hell is he thinking... send him to the AHL
Fourth shift - Great set up and is a great utility guy stepping in to play on the 3rd line.

[Bar-Down]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

I gotta say, in a thread last year I said Mony hit his ceiling as a player and I will happily eat crow for that. Not just statistically this year but I notice his skating is getting better, he's getting faster, stronger, and smarter in every part of his game.

A lot of fans seem to forget just how young some of our players are. Myself included.

Monahan - 23
Gaudreau - 24
Bennett - 21
Tkachuk - 19 (20 on Dec.11)
Ferland - 25
Jankowski - 23
D. Hamilton - 24

That's crazy. This team should continue to get better each year just with these guys continued development.

[camm13]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Last night was more understandable without Tkachuk. Plus, he's the biggest body they have to stand in front of the net and be an obstacle that can't be moved. When Jankowski fills out, he'd be good at it. Ferland is probably the best option right now. Hathaway might suffice as well.

When Janko fills out...lol he's already 202lbs and 6'4.

[Love]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

I gotta say, in a thread last year I said Mony hit his ceiling as a player and I will happily eat crow for that. Not just statistically this year but I notice his skating is getting better, he's getting faster, stronger, and smarter in every part of his game.

Agreed. He's impressed me a lot too. Has definitely looked a lot more confident holding onto the puck and looking to make plays.

[Flash Walken]

can you imagine how good monahan would be if he didn't suck?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I honestly think hockey players need to be evaluated with filters. The filter you choose is what you are going to see.

If I put my "free agent signing 4 years for 4.5M and 2.5 years to go" filter on I'm seething angry every time he steps on the ice.

If I put on my "what's the best fourth line we can build" filter, then I actually like the guy.

I'll never force a filter on any fan, but if you deem him a fourth liner, he's a good one. If you look at the salaries on the team and where he sorts he's a hot mess.

Is he really that great a fourth liner? Over the years, Flames have had guys who have occasionally excelled at the 4th line role, albeit for short bursts. I think of players like Byron, Bouma, Jooris. Energy, grit, speed and some timely scoring. Those are very good 4th liners. I'm not sure Brouwer is doing all that.

Now maybe you'll tell me they weren't really 4th liners and that could be very true.

Brouwer looks like he belongs on the 4th line definitely.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by camm13

When Janko fills out...lol he's already 202lbs and 6'4.

202 is skinny for 6'4". Brouwer at 6'3" is 215. Heft is more important than height in front of the net, especially when a guy like Polak at 236 is trying to move you.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

202 is skinny for 6'4". Brouwer at 6'3" is 215. Heft is more important than height in front of the net, especially when a guy like Polak at 236 is trying to move you.

Janko may not play well heavier.