Bill Morneau’s father sold 200K shares in family co. days before tax changes

[cal_guy]

Originally Posted by Slava

I thought they scrapped some of the other proposals as well? Like the income sprinkling for example, I thought they were adjusting the test to make it more rigorous or something like that?

The only changes are to that the changes to lifetime capital gains exemption and the conversion of income into capital gains have been scraped. The rest are still on the table.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The Prime Minister is slowly being cornered into firing Morneau publicly I don't think he can wait for a normal cabinet shuffle.

With the fund raising business where they were basically selling influence. To Trudeau taking a vacation on a island owned by a powerful lobby head. To the whole flying people around on the jet while redacting the travel documents, to the moving expenses stuff by his own Chief of Staff. There is a pretty good stench of problems with integrity in this government. Morneau is a 10,000 pound gorilla in the room.

I don't know why the PM insists on keeping him, he's a pretty poor finance minister. But he has to know where the bodies are buried.

I would expect that any kind of firing will be nasty and Morneau is either going to get a huge severance or sue.

Recent polls have shown that the Liberals have pretty much bounced back to where they were before. Seems like the opposition overplayed their hand and got the public to tune out.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by NuclearFart

Are you talking about their offering of Independent Pension Plans (IPP)? When the Liberals announced the upcoming PC tax changes, Morneau Sheppel started aggressively and directly advertising to physicians about their IPPs, including a campaign of flyers and lunchtime seminars put on by their advisers. Morneau effectively put all the prof corp testicles in a vice with one hand, while using the other hand to offer a "solution" provided by his company.

How this blatant conflict of interest didn't get more media attention is beyond me. You expect this kind of activity from Trump, but the Morneaus are just as corrupt.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was talking about. It's not that IPPs are terrible in the right situation or anything, but a clear conflict of interest. MSI is huge in that space, so by closing some of these other avenues where that remained as a potential strategy, they stood to reap those rewards. There are other firms (and advisors I know we're going to them specifically because of this, if we weren't already), but it's so blatant.

I can only assume it didn't gain traction because most people don't know about IPPs to begin with, and to really explain this you would want to have people have an idea of what you're talking about. I don't know. It was obviously in my profession, but that's a smaller circle for sure.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by cal_guy

The only changes are to that the changes to lifetime capital gains exemption and the conversion of income into capital gains have been scraped. The rest are still on the table.



Recent polls have shown that the Liberals have pretty much bounced back to where they were before. Seems like the opposition overplayed their hand and got the public to tune out.

Maybe, but we've seen that polls are basically becoming meaningless.

I wouldn't be surprised to see that this becomes something that Justin will be confronted with in the next election.

[killer_carlson]

Scheer won't be able to out brand Trudeau. He has to do 2 things:

1) Keep control of the nutjobs; and

2) demonstrate he would be a better custodian of the economy.

The Morneau scandals are a step to demonstrate he can do #2. He'll need more, but this is a very strong first step.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Scheer won't be able to out brand Trudeau. He has to do 2 things:

1) Keep control of the nutjobs; and

2) demonstrate he would be a better custodian of the economy.

The Morneau scandals are a step to demonstrate he can do #2. He'll need more, but this is a very strong first step.

Well it's a difficult race to predict a couple years out, but the sexual comments made by one CPC MP to a Liberal MP brought up in the house today aren't likely to help Scheer. I have no idea what really happened, but the CPC MP apologized for them right away, so it leads me to believe that this actually took place in some form.

[killer_carlson]

If true - and I have not had chance to read the report - then that is a Mark against Scherr in question 1. The hole has been dug a bit deeper on that one.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

If true - and I have not had chance to read the report - then that is a Mark against Scherr in question 1. The hole has been dug a bit deeper on that one.

Well on the news I just heard the comments in question, and hopefully without opening a can of worms I'll just say it isn't a big deal for Scheer and the CPC. Seems like an obvious harmless joke....

[Northendzone]

it should be noted that on an overall basis, IPP's represent a very small portion of MSI's overall book of business.

I would have to believe there are other companies offering a similar product.

Originally Posted by Slava

Yeah, that's exactly what I was talking about. It's not that IPPs are terrible in the right situation or anything, but a clear conflict of interest. MSI is huge in that space, so by closing some of these other avenues where that remained as a potential strategy, they stood to reap those rewards. There are other firms (and advisors I know we're going to them specifically because of this, if we weren't already), but it's so blatant.

I can only assume it didn't gain traction because most people don't know about IPPs to begin with, and to really explain this you would want to have people have an idea of what you're talking about. I don't know. It was obviously in my profession, but that's a smaller circle for sure.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

it should be noted that on an overall basis, IPP's represent a very small portion of MSI's overall book of business.

I would have to believe there are other companies offering a similar product.

Sure, they offer other things, but what I mean is that in the IPP space, they're probably the largest player. So if you push people towards that solution, they should clearly benefit, if that makes sense.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well on the news I just heard the comments in question, and hopefully without opening a can of worms I'll just say it isn't a big deal for Scheer and the CPC. Seems like an obvious harmless joke....

Reading up on the comments made, I think the timing by the Liberal MP to bring up something in the house that wasn't ruled as sexual harrasment is more about drawing attention away from Morneau.

https://globalnews.ca/news/3895967/s...xual-comments/

Call me a cynic, but at the height of Morneau getting hammered on, she stands up in the house and comments on this, even after Bezan tried to apologize in person, apologized in writing and offered to enter into mediation.

And after the claim was investigated and

officials determined that the incident did not support a claim of sexual harassment. No disciplinary action was recommended, according to the Conservative MP.

Call me a cynic, but if this was an attempt to deflect criticism and attention away from Morneau by the Liberals, its gross.

[Resolute 14]

The 'incident' happened in May. It's no coincidence that this was only brought up in the House six months later when Trudeau and Morneau desperately needed a distraction.

[Slava]

It could be the distraction, or it could be the recent reporting of sexual misconduct reporting every day that has brought this to the fore? Hard to know, because most of the other news was about Trudeau in China yesterday, which seemed to be a good news story for Canada I think?

[NuclearFart]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

it should be noted that on an overall basis, IPP's represent a very small portion of MSI's overall book of business.

I would have to believe there are other companies offering a similar product.

Yes others are offering IPPs, but the points here are that:

1) This is a major conflict of interest for Morneau
2) MSI clearly had a plan to immediately capitalize on the fallout from his directive.

[NuclearFart]

Originally Posted by Slava

Yeah, that's exactly what I was talking about. It's not that IPPs are terrible in the right situation or anything, but a clear conflict of interest. MSI is huge in that space, so by closing some of these other avenues where that remained as a potential strategy, they stood to reap those rewards. There are other firms (and advisors I know we're going to them specifically because of this, if we weren't already), but it's so blatant.

I can only assume it didn't gain traction because most people don't know about IPPs to begin with, and to really explain this you would want to have people have an idea of what you're talking about. I don't know. It was obviously in my profession, but that's a smaller circle for sure.

I don't think they have gained traction yet because there is still some uncertainty on how the changes will fall, and most physicians/dentists I know are telling MSI reps hawking PPIs to f* off. Many are also now turning their sights on non-passive income streams.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well on the news I just heard the comments in question, and hopefully without opening a can of worms I'll just say it isn't a big deal for Scheer and the CPC. Seems like an obvious harmless joke....

I don't think such a thing exists in this world anymore.

Someone, somewhere, is outraged/offended by something, every single event, no matter what it is.

It's pathetic.

[Northendzone]

here is a letter to the folks at the National post (edited from Toronto star) from MSI:

http://morneaushepell.mediaroom.com/...-National-Post

Originally Posted by NuclearFart

Yes others are offering IPPs, but the points here are that:

1) This is a major conflict of interest for Morneau
2) MSI clearly had a plan to immediately capitalize on the fallout from his directive.

[NuclearFart]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

here is a letter to the folks at the Toronto star from MSI:

http://morneaushepell.mediaroom.com/...-National-Post

This is BS

[Northendzone]

^ so you are saying that someone at MSI wrote a letter on company stationary that was a complete lie?

before I get skewered, I should note that I think that the minister has made some mistakes and not been as forthcoming as he could have been, but there are lots of misconceptions out in the marketplace.

MSI does not have a dedicated sales force (like an insurance company might) for this type of product.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

^ so you are saying that someone at MSI wrote a letter on company stationary that was a complete lie?

before I get skewered, I should note that I think that the minister has made some mistakes and not been as forthcoming as he could have been, but there are lots of misconceptions out in the marketplace.

MSI does not have a dedicated sales force (like an insurance company might) for this type of product.

Well the way this works is that if I (or another advisor) wants to use one of these products, they go to a company like MSI to facilitate that. So them not having a dedicated salesforce isn't really a big deal. The fact is they're a dominant player in the industry, and advisors who use this solution use them a fair amount. Plenty of insurers have no dedicated sales force, which is similar to a lot of investment companies as well. If they have a salesforce its not to sell to retail clients, but positioning these products and strategies to advisors.

[NuclearFart]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

^ so you are saying that someone at MSI wrote a letter on company stationary that was a complete lie?

before I get skewered, I should note that I think that the minister has made some mistakes and not been as forthcoming as he could have been, but there are lots of misconceptions out in the marketplace.

MSI does not have a dedicated sales force (like an insurance company might) for this type of product.

https://imgur.com/a/LACUu





I'm saying that they are attempting to gain from the situation, but they are at least greasy enough to go about it in a hidden, round about BS way.

While they may not state their intent on paper, they sponsor events with their own people in attendance eager to discuss taking your money. I have not attended one of these event(s), but when they approach physicians, I am told the recent conversation is steered towards PPIs.