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Old 12-04-2017, 02:36 PM   #141
Oling_Roachinen
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For anyone who thinks LEft/Tight aide ahouldn't ve a factor, i advise you to read this aeticle by Pwnguins GM Rutherford from aoon after they won the cup:r
Doing okay bud?
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Old 12-04-2017, 02:38 PM   #142
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Doing okay bud?
touchscreen fail on my phone. Spelling fixed.
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Old 12-04-2017, 02:43 PM   #143
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For anyone who thinks Left/Right side shouldn't be a factor, I advise you to read this article by Penguins GM Rutherford from soon after they won the Stanley Cup:

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/ji...ut-being-a-gm/

Tell me that does not sound familiar.

Know another defenseman who preferred his off-side? Bobby Orr.
Would you tell Bobby Orr he should play his strong side?
I'm sold.

Giordano - Brodie
Hamonic - Hamilton
Kulak - Stone

Make it so.
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Old 12-04-2017, 03:17 PM   #144
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He should be eating popcorn the next couple of games.

Id be looking to trade him soon
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Old 12-04-2017, 03:32 PM   #145
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For anyone who thinks Left/Right side shouldn't be a factor, I advise you to read this article by Penguins GM Rutherford from soon after they won the Stanley Cup:

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/ji...ut-being-a-gm/

Tell me that does not sound familiar.

Know another defenseman who preferred his off-side? Bobby Orr.
Would you tell Bobby Orr he should play his strong side?
https://www.todaysslapshot.com/uncat...lance-defense/

https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/10...ded-defensemen

Sutter also wanted RL pairings and won a Cup with them.

And then there's this:

https://hockey-graphs.com/2016/03/04...of-handedness/

Obviously there are exceptions. And Brodie has said what he prefers. However, is this a situation where his mistakes are related to that, is he letting a preference get in the way of a positive move or can he simply not play that side well? And does it even matter?

Brodie is the best skater and arguably the best passer of the D corps. He should be able to adjust. Putting him on the opposite side will force a less talented guy like Stone or Hamonic to play their off-side. If he really is that limited, maybe he should be traded for everyone's benefit.
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Old 12-04-2017, 04:12 PM   #146
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Anyone who wants to trade TJ Brodie should watch the highlights AC created for TJ Brodie over the last few seasons. TJ has the skills and ability to be a dominant 2 way defenseman who can rush the puck like no other.

I watched the highlights closely and almost every highlight is Brodie on the right side creating plays and effectively moving the puck. His backhand passes are elite. his stickhandling and edgework on that side are better. I'm convinced he's a defenseman who naturally plays better on his off wing.

I think we just forgot how good he can still be. We're just not putting him in the best position to succeed. I believe if we found a top 4 LHD instead of Hamonic, then this team would be better because Brodie would be better.

Just watch a few of the highlights again and you'll see. If you watch his 16-17 highlights, there's barely any offensive plays and mostly defending compared to the highlights of his previous seasons. It's actually very eye opening. You can see shades of why he was in the discussion to make Team Canada.


14-15
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpAUjauHJKs

15-16
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vz9zseh1G90

16-17
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OOXZfibtAs
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Old 12-04-2017, 05:01 PM   #147
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And Brodie has said what he prefers. However, is this a situation where his mistakes are related to that, is he letting a preference get in the way of a positive move or can he simply not play that side well? And does it even matter?
This is a situation where a lot of things are cascading. LHD/RHD is part of the problem, but no one is saying it is exclusively the problem:

- No true Top 4 defense partner who can both defend with early AND move the puck cleanly without forcing the puck to Brodie's side:\
Wideman
Hamonic
Stone
Engelland


The best player out of this group is Travis Hamonic, and he's a decent #5 defenseman at this point in his career (whether it was injuries, the evolution of the league, or earlier fluke seasons, he's not the player he was a few years ago). He is a turnover machine with brutal gap control most nights. Teams attack his half of the ice, they dump it on him and beat him to the puck, and the rare times he wins that race, he either throws it up the wall to the other team or to Brodie who is already covered by forecheckers. The rare nights where Hamonic simply manages his gaps, Brodie-Hamonic are our best pair. I wonder why.

-Smith's puck moving and Brodie, our most finesse defenseman (which is NOT inherently a bad thing), struggling with the situations that puts him in as he ends up getting pucks in a stationary position rather than on the move if he were just swinging behind the net.

- Brodie's preferred side:
Brodie's preferred shot is a slap shot, which works better on the right
Brodie's preferred pass is on his backhand, which works more often on the right
Brodie's stickwork and angling was most-refined playing on the right side. He has better stick and body positioning on that side of the ice. However he's not a sieve on the left side, despite his struggles in the last couple weeks (emphasis on weeks).


- A system that discourages defensemen from carrying the puck individually or using the middle of the ice, opting for short area passes to wingers along the walls, which results in Brodie simply not using his best assets (skating, stretch passing)

- Further to that system, it discourages defensemen from making offensive zone plays out of the cycle. Know that set play that Hamilton thrives off of? He takes a pass to the point along the walls and does nothing but shoot it on net, regardless of traffic, regardless of how dangerous that point shot is? That is the extent our offensive zone utilization of defensemen. That doesn't work for a guy like TJ Brodie whose skillset is not exclusively consisting of "stationary point shots" (and most would agree that's the weakest aspect of his arsenel). That's not how he was one of the most dominant offensive 5v5 defensemen in 2015-16 (3rd best P/60 @ 5-on-5 in 2016 behind only Burns and Karlsson). Let me put it like this, here's a play from the 2014-15 season, in which a few players, Byron, Russell, Wideman, Monahan, Hudler all touched the puck.

https://streamable.com/s/36u46/eqjdec

Watch the movement of our defensemen, whether Brodie, Wideman, or Russell. That's how you take advantage of TJ Brodie's ability. And Mark Giordano's ability. And Brett Kulak's ability. And even Travis Hamonic's ability, despite his flaws. Contrast that to how Gulutzan wants them to play... stationary, uninvolved, 3 on 5 hockey. That's not on the players. That's why our only dangerous offensive defensemen in this system are Stone and Hamilton... that's just fundamentally wrong. Our system should not be catering to two defensemen while the rest suffer. That's exactly what Brent Sutter did with Jay Bouwmeester. And then Bouwmeester was good again after he left us.

- Luck. As crazy as this sounds, that is part of the issue. Confidence, bounces, focus, whatever you want to call it, this stuff wavers over an 82 game season. Even Alex Ovechkin had a season where he was a -35. Last year Brodie had stretches of awful luck and stretches of dominance. He was our best defenseman in the playoffs, despite all of the above.

- Brodie's preferred pass. Brodie loves to sweep the puck cross-ice to his partner for a one-timer from the blue line (or use his puck skills and skating to smoothly switch sides with his partner for a one-timer from the circle). It set up Giordano perfectly. It set up Stone perfectly. It doesn't work with Hamonic because Hamonic can't shoot as well as Giordano and Stone. And in Giordano's case, Hamilton doesn't set him up much, so he doesn't shoot much anymore either, at least not dangerously.

Quote:
Brodie is the best skater and arguably the best passer of the D corps. He should be able to adjust. Putting him on the opposite side will force a less talented guy like Stone or Hamonic to play their off-side.
If Brodie is the best skater and best passer of the D corps, it stands to reason that he's the best skater and passer on his defense pair, and he is the one who handles the puck more often in the defensive zone. Why would you not want the best skater on the pair, the guy most likely to be making the breakout pass or skating the puck out of trouble, to be on the side that most benefits him?

Stone and Hamonic are, for the most part, simple players. They shovel the puck towards the walls hoping it bounces out of the zone. You can do that on your off-side or strong side because it's not a play where you have to use your full skillset and vision.

Quote:
If he really is that limited, maybe he should be traded for everyone's benefit.
While we're at it, let's trade Gaudreau so we can build a team around size, because we want Darryl Sutter to come here and he's never had success with small players.

And "everyone's benefit"? That's such a hyperbolic claim. At absolute worst (right now) he's still the third best defenseman on this team and at best he's the best defenseman in this entire division. You don't trade that for "everyone's benefit". You trade that because you're mad that he's in a slump. The team's system has to fit its best players, and the secondary players have to be able to play that system.

The problem under Hartley was that the system fit the best players, but the secondary players were simply inept playing that system. The solution at that time was to replace scrubs like Bollig, Engelland with guys who fit better with the style that Hartley wanted to play. And we might have the roster now to do it. But instead we have brought in a coach who wants the team to play like a team that they are not. It's Giordano too, not just Brodie, that isn't himself. Mark Giordano is not himself, not the guy who was probably the best D in the league for a couple straight years at both ends. He's the 2nd pairing shutdown defenseman that Brent Sutter turned him into. And Gulutzan is trying to "JayBo" Brodie.

The problem, at its core is Brent Sutter. Or whatever his current name is. Glen Gultuzan.
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Old 12-04-2017, 06:33 PM   #148
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I guess the first thing you'd have to do is come up with another d-man in the league who is comparable to ranking 20th in the NHL in TOI averaging 24:21 minutes per game.

I wonder how fn stellar other players would be with that kind of ice-time.

Maybe GG should use him on the side he's best at and not as a work-horse.

Then again, I might be a bit bias, cause I'll be 'BigBrodieFan' no matter what team he plays on.

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Old 12-04-2017, 10:46 PM   #149
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I guess the first thing you'd have to do is come up with another d-man in the league who is comparable to ranking 20th in the NHL in TOI averaging 24:21 minutes per game.

I wonder how fn stellar other players would be with that kind of ice-time.

Maybe GG should use him on the side he's best at and not as a work-horse.

Then again, I might be a bit bias, cause I'll be 'BigBrodieFan' no matter what team he plays on.

I would love to know what Brodie thinks of Gulutzan. (I know you can't say)

I think that by next year only one of them is still here. I really hope it's Brodie. But with all the bashing he takes around here, I would imagine you're getting pretty sick of it. (This is why Canadian fans can't have nice things)
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Old 12-04-2017, 10:57 PM   #150
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I would love to know what Brodie thinks of Gulutzan. (I know you can't say)

I think that by next year only one of them is still here. I really hope it's Brodie. But with all the bashing he takes around here, I would imagine you're getting pretty sick of it. (This is why Canadian fans can't have nice things)
Brodie has been straight garbage for going on two seasons. The criticism has nothing to do with Canadian fans not being able to have nice things and everything to do with Brodie sucking.
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Old 12-04-2017, 11:04 PM   #151
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Brodie's ice time should be reduced.
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Old 12-05-2017, 12:16 AM   #152
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We all know what Brodie is capable of. Didn't we all watch him make those perfect break-out passes to forwards who picked them up perfectly? Weren't you sure that there was going to be a decisive and sure play made when he got control of the puck? What has changed?
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Old 12-05-2017, 12:21 AM   #153
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I would trade Princess Dougie before Brodie.
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Old 12-05-2017, 12:21 AM   #154
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I don't buy into the pair him with stone argument, and I don't buy into the pair him back with gio argument either. Gio/Hamilton have been an elite pair this year, you don't break up a pair that's working to spark a player that's struggling, you just open yourself up to the possibility that now you have two pairs that don't work.
You could also end up with two pairs that work, and you're not going anywhere with one that does and one doesn't anyways. It's a risk worth taking, and it's reversable.
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Old 12-05-2017, 12:29 AM   #155
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We all know what Brodie is capable of. Didn't we all watch him make those perfect break-out passes to forwards who picked them up perfectly? Weren't you sure that there was going to be a decisive and sure play made when he got control of the puck? What has changed?
I want the GM to answer this and why the entire defence has underachieved. However IMO the talk of trading Brodie or Hamilton is not something I want. They have shown a very high level in recent past.

I want to hear the GM explain what's gone wrong and how they improve.

Treliving is meticulous and rational. He will undoubtedly have the info/analytics broken down and will know which direction trending, historical numbers etc.

The perspective would be welcomed even just to cool the fan base after such humiliating defeats in ' big games'. Perhaps the answer is stick to it but with game after game of giving up so many chances it leads one to believe there are deeper issues

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Old 12-05-2017, 12:31 AM   #156
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We all know what Brodie is capable of. Didn't we all watch him make those perfect break-out passes to forwards who picked them up perfectly? Weren't you sure that there was going to be a decisive and sure play made when he got control of the puck? What has changed?
Needs to simplify things up and to be mentally prepared. Hamonic is good but not the type to carry a pairing. Brodie can but he appears to be mentally checked out. When his head is in the game he can carry a defence pairing even if it was Bartkowski stapled to his back, but it's as if the Monstars had stolen his talents and hockey IQ to make a hockey sequel to Space Jam.



Brodie is good with Stone because although they do get hemmed in sometimes, Stone is fearless and doesn't mind taking the lead with his slapshot and being physically engaged. It's why their goals for were absurdly high somehow despite being cratered in possession. Kind of like a Gaudreau Monahan esque type of playstyle meshing synergy. Brodie pass. Stone rips it.
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Old 12-05-2017, 01:44 AM   #157
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Watch Brodie gets run out of town by a lame duck coach just like we did to Marc Savard because of GG 1.0. People never learn. Lets get a better coaching staff in here first.
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Old 12-05-2017, 02:06 AM   #158
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I guess the first thing you'd have to do is come up with another d-man in the league who is comparable to ranking 20th in the NHL in TOI averaging 24:21 minutes per game.

I wonder how fn stellar other players would be with that kind of ice-time.

Maybe GG should use him on the side he's best at and not as a work-horse.

Then again, I might be a bit bias, cause I'll be 'BigBrodieFan' no matter what team he plays on.

https://www.foxsports.com/nhl/stats?...group=1&time=0

Brodie is about average. Brodie is defiantly not elite .

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Old 12-05-2017, 02:42 AM   #159
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Not just hockey players but most people in general are side-dominate and it's not necessarily which hand you use to write with, how many times in the past have we've seen Brodie make that tape-to-tape long range pass on his backhand to spring a breakaway or 2 on 1 when playing RD? Ever since I saw him struggle playing LD while having a left shot I felt he had that dominate brain hemisphere that just won't let him be comfortable playing there.

Brodie needs to be playing RD and now!
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Old 12-05-2017, 02:51 AM   #160
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https://www.foxsports.com/nhl/stats?...group=1&time=0

Brodie is about average. Brodie is defiantly not elite .
I don’t think I have seen Brodie being defiant about anything. He seems like a composed, sensible young man.

I see that in support of this comment, you linked to a stat set for D by TOI, and so I looked at the top 20.

Karlsson, Ekman-Larson and Letang have worse plus minus

And again these are his peers in the top 20 group of TOI D men in a 30 team league. Out if this group of 20, only 9 have more points.

Speaking of points, I have no idea what yours is.
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