The trials and tribulations of Glen Gulutzan

[Classic_Sniper]

I know we’re all flipping out because of a couple bad outings in recent times. But we should all keep one small positive note in mind, this team is 9-5-1 since the turnaround.
That’s pretty good especially when you put into consideration the numerous struggles from certain individuals and special teams. There’s definitely room for growth.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Frankly, neither Treliving or Gulutzan will be safe should the Flames have a ball in the draft lottery the day after the season ends (ie. flames don't make the playoffs).

Either the GM takes the hit for mismanaging the team and the assets in/out, or, the coach takes the hit for failing to use a roster the decision makers feel is better than the result, or both are booted.

Lot's of season left, i'm sure this team sticks in the realm of mediocrity, and squeaks into the playoffs in a lower, Away team seeding, against division leading team and gets booted first round in typical Calgary flames fashion over the last 25 years.

Treliving hasn't damaged the organization like the guy up north who is overpaying players and selling low on assets. However he's made moves that indicate the team is attempting to win now and if they aren't winning now then that's failure. I suppose it's going to come down to how much rope he's willing to give this coach and if he's willing to sacrifice the season by giving Gulutzan ever opportunity to get the ship straightened or is he willing to accept his mistake and bring in a new coach mid-season. To be fair I imagine even if he wants to fire the coach he probably has to run it across King and ownership to ensure they are on board with eating the remainder of his deal as well as paying whatever the replacement coach may demand. Lots of moving parts and I expect as long as the Flames are within a few points of the playoffs that not much will happen because of the money involved when making a change and bringing in a new coach.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

To be fair I imagine even if he wants to fire the coach he probably has to run it across King and ownership to ensure they are on board with eating the remainder of his deal as well as paying whatever the replacement coach may demand. Lots of moving parts and I expect as long as the Flames are within a few points of the playoffs that not much will happen.

This brings up the question of Sutter. Even if Treliving did want to go with him, how was his (Sutter's) exit from the Flames handled by ownership all those years ago. Would either want to deal with the other right now?

[Ryan Coke]

I wouldn’t call the Flames the fastest team in the league, but up front I would say Gaudreau, Ferland, Backlund, Frolik, Jankowski, and Bennett are all average or better (I won’t even bother with the 4th line). The D is one of the more mobile and better skating groups in the league.

There is a fair bit of speed there, and if playing with speed was a systemic priority we would see it more. Hartley pushed the speed and pace angle when he was here, GG doesn’t seem to.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Just one comment about the perceived "grittiness" of the team:

One has to remember that this team went through a stretch where they took a fair amount of penalties, and most of those ended up with a goal against due to a very poor PK. It's been getting better on the PK side, but I'm betting that GG asked guys to scale it back a little with physical play in order to avoid taking penalties altogether. It seems like a reasonable strategy when the PK is costing you games.

[nemanja2306]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Just one comment about the perceived "grittiness" of the team:

One has to remember that this team went through a stretch where they took a fair amount of penalties, and most of those ended up with a goal against due to a very poor PK. It's been getting better on the PK side, but I'm betting that GG asked guys to scale it back a little with physical play in order to avoid taking penalties altogether. It seems like a reasonable strategy when the PK is costing you games.

The reasonable strategy would be to actually improve the PK - change the PK units, fire the assistant in charge....

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by nemanja2306

The reasonable strategy would be to actually improve the PK - change the PK units, fire the assistant in charge....

To the bolded: Well duh.

Man, your solution to everything is firing somebody. That honestly isn't a good strategy to use all the time for every issue with performance.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by nemanja2306

We all talk about firing GG but I don't know how realistic it is. You would have to imagine there would be some rumblings about him being on the hotseat if he was close to being fired.



Unfortunately.

I’m curious what Brian Burke thinks. Obviously we will never know but it would be interesting.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Just one comment about the perceived "grittiness" of the team:

One has to remember that this team went through a stretch where they took a fair amount of penalties, and most of those ended up with a goal against due to a very poor PK. It's been getting better on the PK side, but I'm betting that GG asked guys to scale it back a little with physical play in order to avoid taking penalties altogether. It seems like a reasonable strategy when the PK is costing you games.

I think teams get roughly the same number of penalties, regardless of how gritty they play.

And now you have reminded me of how pissed off I was that Gulutzan neutered Bennett.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Man, your solution to everything is firing somebody. That honestly isn't a good strategy to use all the time for every issue with performance.

If said people refuse to adapt and keep doing the same things over and over, then yes you fire them. Otherwise how else are things going to change?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I think it is you that is being binary here, to be honest.

I don't think anyone has said that it is all about the coach. But this is a league of parity. There is a very fine line between winning and losing.

If changing the coach (and therefore the style of play) makes them a little bit faster overall, that is probably enough to make the difference.

If changing the coach results in them playing a little grittier, that probably makes all the difference.

If utilizing the players better will cast a slightly brighter light on their talent, that probably makes the difference.

In a league that is this tight, where 19 teams are separated by 8 points between 5th and 24th overall, teams need to be at their best in order to succeed. They need to squeeze everything they can out of their talent, in order to outpace other teams that are trying to do the same thing.

This isn't a league of good. or of try. Or of okay. Only winning matters. And changing large chunks of the roster is almost impossible. But changing the coach, in order to find the right match for the players, is very much possible.

I'm suggesting that both are contributing factors and I'm the one being binary?
Switching the coach is definitely a possible way to go, but I'm surprised fans are willing to look past the fact that perhaps this team isn't as ready to challenge as we hoped, or doesn't have the right combination of players to challenge.
I get the notion that "well its easier to fire the coach" but what happens if you bring in a guy and nothing changes?

[mikeecho]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Posted this in the What do the team practices look like thread. Maybe more appropriate here. Just my thoughts:

Yeah I don't believe emotion or lack thereof is a concern with Gulutzan. I think its how he wants the team to play and their inability to execute that plan. As someone (or multiple people here) noted, the team is afraid to make mistakes as their gameplan falls apart if they aren't on point.

Gulutzan clearly is trying to drill this into them during practices but the execution is lacking which points to a system that would appear to be just too complicated. This helps explain slow starts to not only the games themselves giving the impression the team isn't prepared but also slow starts to the past few seasons.

It also explains (to me) why they never change their gameplan against certain teams and why those games go worse than others. A one size fits all approach to opponents and the inability to execute it and a fear of screwing it up.

I think this is where the issue is. When all of the D look lost, unsure what to do and panicked with the puck all the time I think it's more of an issue with them feeling comfortable with the system and than it is with them just all coincidentally being bad at the same time.

I was at the Dallas game and it was unbelievable how many times the D tried to make partner to partner passes deep in their own zone with a Dallas forechecker right in the middle and lots of other safe options. You could tell, the D weren't even comfortable making the pass. They'd stall a fraction of a second and still make the pass. At least twice, the puck was an inch from being intercepted at the hash marks for an easy goal. Never mind the continuous insistence of the D to bank the puck off the boards into traffic as one of their break outs. Atom age kids know better, but this D group always seem to be panicked and pushing forward with ill advised plays.

I've referenced it a few times before, but last season when all the talk was about how beers on a train saved the season, Brian Burke was on Toronto radio throwing some water on that theory and talking about how the improvement was more related to Gulutzan simplifying his system. Time for Glen to revisit his notes from last year and simplify things.

[cupofjoe]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

9-11-6 in regulation. Given how many easy opponents we've had to this point of the season, we really should not be having to rely on 3 on 3 overtime to inflate our record. And our playoff odds reflect this. We're barely a 1 in 3 shot at making it right now.

easy opponents - rather subjective isn't it...

Vegas has two more wins than us, same number of OTL. Their prob is 76%.

Not exactly hard at this point in the season to make up. Montreal has a brutal start, gets Price back, wins 5 in row, now 3rd in their division.

The sky is falling mentality around here is pretty bad.

In the next 15 games (mid-point of the season), if we get less than 15 points (86 or less pace) , i agree - fire him. 15-18 points, very short leash. Beyond that we should be on playoff pace.

Realistically, I don't think our team has the talent yet to be much more than a 2nd place (in division) team or make it in the top-ten overall this year. This would be my high-mark. I do think they should make the playoffs.

I hope i am wrong, we go on a terror and win the division but I don't think we have that team yet (its coming).

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

I'm suggesting that both are contributing factors and I'm the one being binary?
Switching the coach is definitely a possible way to go, but I'm surprised fans are willing to look past the fact that perhaps this team isn't as ready to challenge as we hoped, or doesn't have the right combination of players to challenge.
I get the notion that "well its easier to fire the coach" but what happens if you bring in a guy and nothing changes?

Presuming the guy we "bring in" isn't just promoting Dave Cameron, then yeah, you have to start swapping out players.

But I'm sorry. When you look at this roster, this team should not be so relentlessly mediocre. Not in this division. Nobody is expecting us to compete for a President's trophy, but we also should not have to be heavily reliant on 3 on 3 overtime to get to a .500 record.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Presuming the guy we "bring in" isn't just promoting Dave Cameron, then yeah, you have to start swapping out players.

But I'm sorry. When you look at this roster, this team should not be so relentlessly mediocre. Not in this division. Nobody is expecting us to compete for a President's trophy, but we also should not have to be heavily reliant on 3 on 3 overtime to get to a .500 record.

I think we are all agreed that if they make a change and it is to promote Cameron that...well that would be bad.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by edslunch

I’m curious what Brian Burke thinks. Obviously we will never know but it would be interesting.

Get Burke behind the bench. That'll get these guys putting in some effort and emotion.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by cupofjoe

easy opponents - rather subjective isn't it...

Vegas has two more wins than us, same number of OTL. Their prob is 76%.

Not exactly hard at this point in the season to make up. Montreal has a brutal start, gets Price back, wins 5 in row, now 3rd in their division.

The sky is falling mentality around here is pretty bad.

In the next 15 games (mid-point of the season), if we get less than 15 points (86 or less pace) , i agree - fire him. 15-18 points, very short leash. Beyond that we should be on playoff pace.

Realistically, I don't think our team has the talent yet to be much more than a 2nd place (in division) team or make it in the top-ten overall this year. This would be my high-mark. I do think they should make the playoffs.

I hope i am wrong, we go on a terror and win the division but I don't think we have that team yet (its coming).

If we lose to Philly tonight we're not getting 15 points in the next 15 games. Also getting only 2 points on this homestand would be a joke.

Fire him tomorrow morning.

[Gaskal]

I was reading Barry Melrose's autobiography (former enforcer, coach, and now ESPN analyst). He said something interesting about the percieved shelf life of a coach in the organization.

A coach in the NHL, especially one in the same disciplinarian/demanding fold as Hartley, has around 4-5 years with any team before he's tuned out. It's just the way of the game, he says. So I can understand the Flames organization wanting a bit more stability in their system, seeing the gongshow up north and their revolving door of coaches. But the Flames obviously respond well to tougher coaches even though they're tuned out within a few seasons (Hartley, Keenan), so Glen does need to show his Irish temper more just to give the guys a jolt here and there.

As an aside Tortorella actually had a fairly long shelf life for being a bit tougher of a coach. But his players do like him - he's passionate for hockey, has the aura of respect as a tenured coach, and he's willing to defend his players. We all made fun of him for trying to storm into our locker room and for some of his quotes in the media, but players respond to stuff like that.

[ForeverFlameFan]

It's not like GG is making humongous mistakes. He's just not realizing that the small little adjustments he CAN make are part of the reason why we don't have about 2/3 more wins in the win column.

1) Get Brodie away from Hamonic. We're over 25% into the season, we can obviously see that they don't mesh well.
2) The 4th line needs less minutes, and those extra minutes should be evenly distributed in the top 9. We're a top 9, bottom 3 forward system (or at least we should be), not a top6/bottom6. Distribute the minutes accordingly.
3) Give players that aren't playing well less minutes. It's going a little with #1, give Brodie/Hamonic less time or different partners. Hamilton has been bad, try putting Him with Hamonic or Kulak, and maybe he finds his game again.

[Manhattanboy]

Termination letter drafted and on Tre's desk for signature.